Have they already ruined guild wars?

[Autentist]

And there are people who also agree with me, And guess what? They play the game for PvP! Why? Because PvE content absolutely sucks. Shocking, I know.

[OtterTamer]

Well it’s a good thing you can agree to war with them isn’t it? Problem solved!

[Autentist]

Not if Guild Leader disagrees with this position. So, what can you do, leave the Guild? Rather a radical decision, don’t you think?

[Don_Falce]

Well, he’s the leader. If he doesn’t want to have a war, it means that such a guild wasn’t that inclined to pvp after all. So those “pvp inclined people” shouldn’t have joined such a guild to begin with.
Those people are free to join or create some other guild that will just accept whatever war will be proposed, if they think that’s fine.

[OtterTamer]

You mean “Choose to leave a pve guild in favour of a pvp guild” is a radical decision compared to “don’t join a guild if you don’t want to pvp?” Really? Do you even know what priorities are?

[black_light]

Let me see if I get this process right

“Big Bads” has declared war on your guild, would you like to participate? Y/N
I opt not to participate and instead babysit my giant hamster farm, which needs to be inside my guild tower
The pvpers in my guild lose to “Big Bads”
“Big Bads” destroys my guild tower an wins the war
My giant hamster farm is now gone as a consequence of pvp activity I opted out of

As i stated there seems to be a missing puzzle piece here, right at the start.

• “Big Bads” has declared war on your guild"
  Why?
  Thats the problem here. The why.
  Whats the motivation in the current game behind gvg? In ragnarok it was to hold guild castles which gave you access to special drops, but whats here?
  Big bads are going around and declaring war left and right for the fun of it? I doubt thats a working system.

If its about holding a territory, a castle, or anything that gives access to something, then by definition you cant have a right to opt out. You have the right to opt out when you are not possessing something the entire gvg is fought for.

[Qualna]

Would you stop assuming that guild wars will ONLY happen between pvp guilds? That simply isn’t the case, and it never will be unless it’s limited by the system.

I’ve made it perfectly clear that I and people like me would never join a pvp guild in the first place, so don’t bother telling me that again.

If arguing from the standpoint of people who avoid pvp is being egocentric, then I guess we’re some kind of freakish hivemind.

“My friends lost a battle I had nothing to do with, so I am weak”

[Autentist]

@Don_Falce

@OtterTamer

That’s exactly what makes it casual. Anyway, Black Light seems to propose a good alternative, like RO castles, so I would side with him in this case.

[thebloodyaugust]

And there are people who also agree with me, And guess what? They play the game for PvP! Why? Because PvE content absolutely sucks. Shocking, I know.

Wo hey now I like PvP and PvE and i disagree with you because your fix is way to similar to IMCs awful “fix”. There are better options.

[Autentist]

YOUR Guild lost a battle, from this standpoint yes, you are weak.

Also, I already said about casuality above.

[nethereus]

[quote=“thebloodyaugust, post:77, topic:144771”]
If this is all you took away from my posts you clearly has selective reading as i proposed alternatives that would protect those that dont want to pvp and dosnt ruin the system [/quote]

I took that from your post because it sounds like the typical argument I always see on forums coming from pvpers. I wanted to address it specifically because I’m hearing the same idea reworded in other posts. The burden of avoiding pvp is always put on the other guy by suggesting s/he extensively research guilds that do not want to pvp in ANY capacity if they want to avoid being killed altogether. How many guilds have you seen across your years of gaming that don’t have any pvpers in them?

No one suggests this because dividing the player base in more ways is stupid and has been covered in many topics you can find via the search function

How is the player base already divided? By region? The ONE server for South America that most of them probably won’t even use unless they’re forced to? The stupid 600% bonus exp solo queue that most PvPers will be using anyway to fill out their builds as soon as possible? PvE servers and PvP servers are perfectly viable.

Let me be clear that I’m not against “the old way” GvG was done on kToS. But I can see how more players would be happy with a consent system that merely protects people from having violence put upon them at the discretion of ANOTHER player who gives no damn about what they’re up to and it doesn’t make them a “care bear” for not trusting players to police themselves and not prey endlessly on the weak. This isn’t Dark Souls where trolling and killing other players is supposed to be a core part of the game.

[Raven]

Basically it’s this: Join pvp guild if you want pvp. Other pvp guilds will pvp with you in war. Join non-pvp guild if you don’t want to pvp or join sometimes pvp guild if you want to do it once in a while.

The whining about how you want to pvp with everyone is only from those that want to pretend they’re better than you by killing people who either are not wanting to fight at all or low level and ill geared. But hey if you want to pretend you are best gamer evah!!!1 by pvping with people that aren’t even participating then better find another game. You can go pretend your super manly and cool somewhere else.

Guild wars are still in the game. Stop crying.

[Autentist]

I only had a proposal, you don’t need to bring this much attention to this.
Also, I explained everything already further.

[Qualna]

What is the point of gvg? Is there something to be gained from it?

I don’t know either. The satisfaction of knowing you just make someone lose 5mil silver and 500 talt? You don’t steal their tower for more real-estate for hamster farming, you don’t steal monopoly money from them, you just kind of break their tower and their souls and that’s about it.

I guess the only thing to gain would be being able to relocate your tower I guess? “LF guild war so I can put my tower in a higher level zone” sounds stupid and not worth anybody’s time

[OtterTamer]

So what if it’s casual? Just because a player is casual didn’t mean they’re entitled to any less priority. I don’t see how this is an argument again anything.

And I’d actually like a WoElike, and I should point out a system like that is opt in and not opt out.

[thebloodyaugust]

How many guilds have you seen across your years of gaming that don’t have any pvpers in them?

MANY because the people who want to pvp usually group and those who want to pve usually group hence my proposed solution.

How is the player base already divided? By region?

Yes its divided by servers and the amount of servers will depend on population the last thing it needs is more division

Let me be clear that I’m not against “the old way” GvG was done on kToS. But I can see how more players would be happy with a consent system that merely protects people from having violence put upon them at the discretion of ANOTHER player who gives no damn about what they’re up to and it doesn’t make them a “care bear” for not trusting players to police themselves and not prey endlessly on the weak. This isn’t Dark Souls where trolling and killing other players is supposed to be a core part of the game.

Once again another irrelevant point because my proposed solution would solve this without destroying a good game system.

[black_light]

Let me be clear that I’m not against “the old way” GvG was done on kToS. But I can see how more players would be happy with a consent system that merely protects people from having violence put upon them at the discretion of ANOTHER player who gives no damn about what they’re up to and it doesn’t make them a “care bear” for not trusting players to police themselves and not prey endlessly on the weak. This isn’t Dark Souls where trolling and killing other players is supposed to be a core part of the game.

Basically it’s this: Join pvp guild if you want pvp. Other pvp guilds will pvp with you in war. Join non-pvp guild if you don’t want to pvp or join sometimes pvp guild if you want to do it once in a while.

The whining about how you want to pvp with everyone is only from those that want to pretend they’re better than you by killing people who either are not wanting to fight at all or low level and ill geared. But hey if you want to pretend you are best gamer evah!!!1 by pvping with people that aren’t even participating then better find another game. You can go pretend your super manly and cool somewhere else.

What if i told you that if things were following old ro’s capture point system, you would not need any feature to be asked whether or not you want to gvg, simply because you did not need one?
If you went to gvg and occupied a territory, you should not have the option to opt out. That would be mental.

[RISKorRIOT]

Being able to PvP anywhere and with anyone you dislike is just annoying. As someone who does value PvP greatly in a game that does it right, it actually irritates me. A fair fight is the best fight.

There should be PvP zones that have high experience rewards in it as the offset to this issue. I feel their arena system in place for PvP is absolute booty butt cheeks. However, their GvG was also just glorified arena combat.

I’d personally love to see a war ranking system, objective based combat, and War Zones that also yield high PvE rewards so people are challenged to achieve the rewards there.

I feel like @black_light touched upon this well. The system would be better with more “Why are we warring?” rather than “WAR KILL MAIM RAWR RAWR RAWR”

Also, can everyone leave their salt in their shakers?

[Autentist]

We have enough casual, trash MMOS right now on the market. You seriously want another one? More clones?

Yes, with this I agree.

[nethereus]

If you went to gvg and occupied a territory, you should not have the option to opt out. That would be mental.

That’s an entirely different scenario. Being in contested territory, all bets are off. When I think of “open world pvp” I think of players being flagged just for leaving town(in this case, if their guild is at war with another), which is fine for anyone who is looking for a fight, not so much for those who are engaged in non-pvp activities.

Also, for me personally, when it comes to pvp, I’m not motivated to fight for the sake of fighting. If there is some incentive for why I should go out of my way to kill strangers besides ego, that’s different.