I thought about highlander but the hit box is kinda meh atm on my highlander. I might stay on hoplite or barb.
What made them strong were not the weapons, but their mechanics, durability and IMC blessing. I mean, they still have free crit chance, free AOE ratio, free range.
This happened not because of Epee Garde, but because Fencer is itself a bad class. Back on R7, Fencer was a masochist choice, high SP cost for mid damage with high risk, as you can’t survive in extreme situations, because the only thing a Fencer could do was killing a single target enemy with low efficiency. Epee Garde and full dex saved Fencer in the meta, making its cost equivalent to the damage.
But all of that can be countered by crit resistance equipment. The class must have something to add to make the difference. Maybe Balestra Fente would suffice, but I don’t know how efficient that skill will be in the new scenario. If it gives an equal boost as archers are having, then we could say that there is a hope
And there is also the magic stomp issue. I don’t use leather today because if I don’t use cloth, I can do nothing to counter it. Of course, the idea of that combat system change is to make damage fair, but frankly, from the damage tables and formula and the damn fact that we still don’t have NOTHING to mitigate magic damage + the fact that SP cost will be hell now, are you sure leather armor will be an option?
Pardon my pessimism, but I can’t see quite well this revamp working for critical damage based non-spear swordsman.
I’m not saying it is bad, it may be feasible, but there is no advantage in doing it. Like I said, unless there is something that makes it equal to auto attacking with a spear, doing that will be dumb.
I see no advantage in auto attacking with a 0 AOE attack ratio, rangeless and low durable weapon type.
I hate Barbarian in a Fencer build. Though it is not a problem here, just me being childish.
Well, that is one build, which is the high STR. But a high STR build fits more a 2h sword like Doppel, not Fencer. There is nothing in the Fencer build that boosts with STR directly. Maybe Epee Garde, but criting is not that accessible anymore.
All the numbers shown in videos are from STR builds, I saw nothing related to Epee Garde. And I’m sorry, if you are just pumping damage and using the skill% and no more, you’re no different than a Doppel, which does this job a lot better.
Epee is there to be used and to not use is to not be a Fencer. At least as the class is now, with poor defensive skills.
Does this imply you’re speaking in terms of PvP only then? If so I apologize because I was talking about everything strictly within the scope of PvE
Same thing here, sounds like a PvP problem. In PvE, at least for me anyway, I have never touched cloth. Not before the gem update and not after. Of course, after the gem update, magic def becomes pretty easy to obtain a large quantity of. I don’t have any issue with magic damage, so it sounds like a funding issue here then. Unless of course, you mean PvP in which case I’ve got nothing still. SP consumption is not an issue either. Having a larger SP pool from my testing does not make much of a difference once you have a reasonable amount. This makes sense too because as long as you aren’t overfilling your SP bar potions are already accomplishing their effective maximum potential. SP recovery is almost entirely useless because it doesn’t work while in combat. Unless you’re sit cheesing (DPS loss), it won’t amount to much. I’m not worried about magic doing too much damage either because ALL pieces now give def/mdef. So not a PvE issue.
[quote=“migliole, post:6731, topic:300257”]
I see no advantage in auto attacking with a 0 AOE attack ratio, rangeless and low durable weapon type.[/quote]
uhhh 1v1? Bossing? In my opinion, and also the reason why I chose this class, is fencer is designed to be a 1v1 class. As far as range goes, I also have to say it doesn’t matter. You have to effectively use all of your skills to play fencer properly (especially after the update). For example, this includes one of the most important skills (currently), coquille. Coquille has almost no range. This still sounds like its within the scope of PvP. In PvP yeah I can see how this would be an issue. PvE? Not so much. So apologizing in advance again…
Durability isn’t an issue with squire repairs. I can run multiple ET sessions with one venier and still have durability assuming I don’t die.
That’s true, but you can make the same argument for people who run dex doppels now. There’s nothing in the doppel tree that directly scales with dex, yet there’s plenty of doppels who go full/high dex. Not because of how their class mechanics work, but just because it’s optimal in general.
It’s important to note that it’s not like they are 100% full strength. They have a lot of points invested into dex as well, and the meta is still currently being figured out. For me personally, I am probably going to go full dex or a few reasons. Primarily, your stats don’t really influence your damage too much anymore; it’s mostly based on the weapon equipped. That leaves room for stat balance. Which again, is what this update aimed to achieve. Instead of it being optimal to pump all your stat points into one stat, the goal is to make them distributed in multiple stats (depending on the class being played of course). As far as epee garde, one reason they aren’t using it isn’t because it’s bad, but there’s a couple reasons I can think of
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Their gear isn’t acclimated yet. These guys still have to transition from likely red gems over to green, as well as get new gear in general. There are a ton of people with solmiki and lolopanther leather. Give it a week or two in kr and you’ll see these guys hit many crits.
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The videos are so short that there’s no need to use epee. Maybe just showing off their non crit damage for fun.
I find this to be incorrect. I think they’re both rather balanced in the current ktos version. Just one is more inclined to do AoE, and one is more inclined to do 1v1 damage. They can both accomplish both if built and played properly though. Depends on players personal goals again.
Absolutely true, but them not using it should make you think why they aren’t. They have it hotkeyed, they have plenty of buff slots, and it takes almost no time to cast. They still crit as well, it’s not like they don’t crit at all. I’m sure they realize what they are doing.
Although I am indeed adding PVP here, PVE is also a point I make. Though I would say PVE is not an big issue, as bossing is not that competitive as it is woth some other games. But I will focus on PVE then, after all, the GMs said themselves that TBL balance and such is going to come after this update.
Fencer being a 1v1 class is true, I won’t deny that. But when I put AOE into account is not that I want to smash 15 monsters with the same hit. My point here is solving tasks. You know that there are a lot of quests that you have to protect something and then comes a horde of the worst type of monster to be a horde of, like those 100k HP, when your combo only deals 30k per CD. Any AOE class solves this by just using its kit. Now, a Fencer can’t do that, so he has to use his 1v1 potential more strategically. And I think this is cool, it reminds those samurai strategies of how to deal with a horde of bandits. But that strategy is not that possible, because you can’t even kill 1 of them quickly.
Well, we could say that the Fencer can now, but we all know that IMC can create this toxic scenario again. And Fencer will suffer again.
Durability alone is not an issue even today, I agree. But with the other issues added, it, well, adds.
Concerning the videos, I agree with you, there is a lot yet to see. Although I am still pessimist, because there is nothing that is increasing crate for swordsman (I don’t see barb as a good option yet).
Well, I would say that for this particular game, Doppel is made for PVE. And he was, is and will be forever good with both STR and DEX. But I don’t think Fencer is at the same state, because of what I said till now. If we are talking about PVE pierce damage 1v1 boss killing, I again ask why would you pick a Fencer, aside from you liking it, if you have a spear path that is specialized at doing EXACTLY that, with more convenient mechanics.
I’m not saying that it is not possible, I think Fencer will stay as a good option. But the class is so high cost and high risk that it makes me think I’m stupid for playing Fencer. And you know what I mean, leveling one up to rank3 now is hell for a casual player (I am a casual payer nowadays btw). When I play a Catagoon for example, I can’t stop thinking how dumb is to play with Fencer, because in the end both do the exact same thing, except that Fencer cost millions of SP pots and is a hell of a class to level up.
My point is, if we can’t make efficient use of Epee Garde, what those demerits are really for?
I do hope this class get a remake sometime.
So what I’m gathering from this in short is that fencer has low versatility compared to doppel (and other classes)
In which case I also agree with that
Yeah, we could say that.
We can also add that they now are trying to force versatility on everyone, which does not fit Fencer very well. So, they either remake the class to fit this new design, or make something to take this specialization to cover up all PVE. Like making Rapier Aggression be instead of a 15% damage increase, be a X crate increase or something like that.
The two doppels I had (the other one was deleted because I needed more slots for experiments and couldn’t afford attributing both) were stronger than my fencer and I had several people asking in my PM about it so I made this guide into a multi-class guide instead of a fencer-only thread.
It’s quite a good decision since there were also several fencer vs doppel threads so it helps…or maybe helped since I stopped updating
but hey people are still actively debating/discussing so that’s nice.
Is it possible to upgrade redel’s multihit attribute while still at c2 redel level 5, but with divine might buff to get it to level 6, due to multihit attribute requirement is only redel to be level 6?
Are you planning to updating this guide when the stat rework comes?
I already quit for now, so I can’t really update it anymore,
but:
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Hoh, don’t worry, I was just joking :3
I also played a Doppel and I agree with you, they are a lot more convenient.
These two don’t seem to be too far apart in gear yet performed way way differently (aside from the obvious class choice difference of Peltasta).
VS
So… hurray player skill (actual gaming sense)? 
Edit:
First video appears to be the generic build, is it not that good at handling tons of mobs as it appeared to have before?
Second video has Peltasta, is this adviseable to [replicate] if I have nearly as good ping (not Korean level ofc), but very low?
Edit2:
The Fencer 3 dream?
@04:14, he hits 555555 with Attaque Au Fer without Preparation!
holy crap is this guy for real?
Fencer changes :
Sept Etoille changed to 2 overheats, SP consumption reduced by 8%
Attaque Composee SP consumption reduced by 8%
Epee Garde changed to give 50% Crit Attack by default instead of 20% per skill level. Considering that’s all leveling the skill did, it might be a 1 point skill now?
Balestra Fente changed to 2 overheats
Attaque Au Fer CD lowered from 48s to 35s
Ahn ok, they nerfed EVEN MORE Epee Garde and are trying to give some second hand buffs on skills that don’t actually make a difference. And then we have this comment from DiMeowgio:
Which could be the answer: “But Fencer is heck strong, see?!”. Well, no.
Everyone is doing 555k damage. And no, this is not a childish talk of me being jealous. I’m just pointing that Fencer is STILL expensive and hard to maintain and yet does the same thing that others do in a way that is a lot more convenient. That is, Fencers are less efficient.
Again I ask, aside from you liking Fencer, why the heck you would do one?
(Oh, DiMewogio, I’m not directing it to you, btw. Just making use of your public post to make my case. I’m sorry if in some way I sound offensive)
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I don’t know how much DPS Fencer’s has after this rebalace. Is it still good or not, but i’d love this new mechanics rather than the old ones.
You will not rely too much to Epee Garde anymore, and that +2 skill level Rapiers. You will not rely too much with 0 CD skill that is realy boring. But now, you will enjoy spamming more skill more frequently.
If before we only did this = Epee > Balestra > Coquille > Prep > Sept > 3x Flash > Compose (All the way while the other skills on cooldown)
Now we will do something like = Epee > Balestra > Coquile > Prep > Au Fer > 5x Compose > 2nd Balestra > 2x Sept > 3x Flash > 5x Compose > And Maybe Fencers will need some filler skills, that just make this class is more interesting to play.
But still, while we don’t know how much DPS Output, and how Fencers can compete with another SIngle Target DPS, its still hard to decide to play Fencer as a main character, remembering that we need extra attention and extra disconvenient to play as this class.
I think +2 skills will still be the most valuable part of the class because you get so much base damage for skills now, especially au fer. Also don’t forget epee levels still give duration too. Otherwise I agree with everything you said
Also, it seems like its a LOT of DPS output depending on your class build
Uhm…about the video with the 555555 hit, nobody even asked how he got the pistol atribute, while being an corsair rank 1 ?
Never even looked at that. But if this is true - My dream comes true! <3
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Of course, because they are now useless.
Well, they removed the mechanic entirely so you will only have one option to rely, which is “doppel on single target”, which to me is as boring as 0 CD is to you.
Before, you could take the option of not building for 0 CD, which you could say was weak as hell, but it was there and got buffed a lot. Now I only have one boring option, because all skills are the same (Flanconnade and Attaque Composee are just a manual Sept Etoile, nothing more.)
For this specific content (rank 8), Fencer do the exact same amount of damage as any other DPS build, and that is the problem, because like you said, you need more attention and live with more inconveniences while doing the same thing.
And I will repeat, I don’t want Fencer to give more damage. Cut the damage to a half or even a quarter, just make the demerits/advantages a fair proportion.
It is to give you more time to notice how dumb the skill is now as you won’t be criting. Oh and don’t forget the SP consumption, this one will make you reset as soon as possible.
Not useless, but has the same use as another skills. But if you say that, let me say that increasing more than a lv Sept is useless before this patch.
But now with the additional OH, and with the removal of 0 CD Compose, we will thinking twice to not max this skills. I say that we will not rely on1 or 2 skills to much before, because all the skills has the same value to invest skill points now.
So they just have to make Fencer deals more DPS on single target than Doppel does. More DPS is not mean that we must have 0 CD skill, but there’s another option that more quite fun than just spamming one skill only.
But if you really love that 0 CD mechanics, i sure that you are a boring person, lol , just kidding
If all skills are the same, then you have much option to chose. But you only have one boring option when 1 only skill is overpowering another skills.
So what is the fair advantages that you want from Fencers? more AOE? Crown Control Ability? or Healing ability?. Of course not right, for me the only advantages that Fencer’s need is on the Top Chart Single Target DPS classes. Even not number 1, because i find another class that took more risk and attention than Fencer does.