[Guide] Swordsman's Battle Manual (All classes) - By Cathexis

[mabinogiken]

Thank you.

I’ll continue with my 3 str, 1 con, 2 dex build!

One last question.

I am still using my Didel Colo sword +10 (with 4 aoe ratio). What sword should I get next?

[Kokori]

It’s PvE oriented but I don’t know if I like Corsair enough to drop C2 Doppel. Also not sure if I’d like playing Barbarian up to C3. I was tempted to go C3 Cataphract but Hoplite was so boring to play for me back in closed beta that I don’t know if I could deal with that again. By the way, I really liked this indepth discussion on every class in the swordsman tree. Are you planning on doing more discussions on the other trees?

[kung.quach]

Was wondering why points into guardian, doesn’t it not stack with gung ho? Or is it for when you’re tanking?

Concentrate a skill you always try to keep up even at higher levels, or is there a certain point where you just stop using it?

For hoplite, why did you recommend to max stabbing on circle 3 but pierce for circle 1-2? Circle 3 changes things?

Thanks again in advance!

[mateusmureb]

Highlander’s attribute of 50% Crit Atk compensate trading it for Peltasta in a build with Barbarian and Doppel ( 2H Swords )?

Originally my intention was Swords > Peltasta > Barbarian C2 > Corsair > Doppel C2, using 2h Swords normally and switching to a Shield to use Swash Buckle. But my damage would get a HUGE upgrade from Highlander’s attribute, no?

[jiang_philip]

Hey Cathexis!

I have two builds to debate for my 2h Sword - Doppel C2. (PvE)

Sword c1 > pelt c1 > highlander c3 > doppel c2
Sword c1 > pelt/highlander c1 > barbarian c3 > doppel c2

Now I know Highlander C3 and Barbarian C3 are the two main popular full 2H sword build, I would like to ask in-depth details based on difference, playstyle/gameplay, & mechanics between the path Highlander C3 and Barbarian C3 into Doppel C2.

Some ideal questions I have:

• which of the two is more skill based or auto attack based on gameplay?
• Which of the two will outshine one another in endgame?
• What can one of the build do that the other cant?
• Stat distribution for 2h?

Thank you!

[fimbogaming]

It is fine at level 1 or level 5 (mainly for the duration). You also want to give 1 point to Rim Blow to have an extra knockback on your kit.

Helm Chopper is also fine at level 5, level 10 only gives you more damage.

One could argue that Frenzy isn’t that good with Fencer because it is
a mainly skill based class and Frenzy stacks with auto attacks. But
since it is only level 5 and not 10, then it shouldn’t be too much of a
problem.

Oh, I see. I do like do be able to rotate skills so I think it’d be best for me to get the rim block for -1 in guardian while having no more frenzy (because no attribute and autoattack on one monster/person may be not done as much endgame) and will be put to maxing helm chopper (freeing a skill slot yay!)

If you have the attribute enabled, you can capture 3 enemies but you can’t use Keel Hauling. Otherwise, you can only capture 1 enemy but you can use Keel Hauling.

Oh yeah, I forgot you can toggle most attributes on and off! no more worries about this then.

Either option is fine (Corsair or Barbarian C3), but currently Iron Hook is stronger in PvP. However, this could easily change in the near future as PvP is expected to go through heavy balance, so I can’t guarantee it will remain forever as the better option.

Still, I find Corsair having good utility even if it may get nerfed in the future (plus a boon costume.) Not too fond of sticking in one class and having too many skills from barbarian feels like I’d have problems with choosing skills again unlike corsair where I feel comfortable with just maxing the first 3 skills.

Other than that, you might also consider adding 1 point to Dust Devil to have an extra mini CC skill on your kit, since you can use Rapier+Dagger for it. But it is not necessary either.

Oh! this is interesting. I didn’t see that it does have cc. I don’t mind having a switch and reactivating guardian after doing this skill solely, (feels like a great way of rotation in the future. ) Most probably, 4 jolly roger and 1 dust devil right?

You generally want to max Lunge, but level 5 is fine. You don’t really need the extra points into Preparation, so I would leave it at level 1.

You could also take some points from Flanconnade and put them into Lunge if you would be interested in that, but not necessary.

A case could also be built around maxing out Sept Etoiles for PvP, since it deals 7 hits really fast and it is a nice burst damage.

So it really depends on the style you are looking most for that will define the skill(s) you will max out.

Esquive Toucher is generally bad for all purposes.

Hm. I see that it has perfect evasion during its animation (if that’s the reason for doing a max lunge) and because as I did plan in getting this character to be a kind of survivalist by having great skills, this is a great skill, even if it has cd. Is this evasion why Preparation is okay to be left at 1 because evade > block chance?

With Sept Etoiles though, because it has no evasion and just pure dmg, I’m still wary of putting all of it there and ‘missing’ this skill and having it on cooldown. I do know that Flanconnade is spammable by a reply from my thread and from database saying it has 0cd (like Attaque Composee, but with evade.) It feels like “the super filler dps skill” that can evade and do damage, but at the same time, I feel like this skill will “battle” with the levels I put on Sept Etoiles. (makes me feel like ‘which should be max or which should be at a higher level.’)

I see builds with Sept Etoiles at around 7~8 to at least get that 300+ attack. I also see Flanconnade among these levels:

• only 1~2 for that “filler dps” role it does
• around 3~4 because leftover skill points & the 300+ attack attainment
• max because “filler dps” feels like “THE dps”

I do foresee that relying on Flanconnade often will get the user to have 0 mana fast because of spammability along with Attaque Composee (another concern of mine, sp management.)

OK so it’s fine, no more Esquive Toucher (even if it sounds the most tongue twister among the skills.)

In my opinion Attaque Coquille can be left at level 1 because it has a 5 seconds duration with 8 seconds cooldown, but some people prefer to have it at level 3~4 to a close to or 100% uptime. It depends on what your personal preference is.

Oh another skill that will battle along with Sept Etoiles & Flanconnade. The debuff feels great for solo and parties which makes me feel that having it at that sweet 4 to have it at the close uptime be very beneficial to sept etoiles & attaque composee (why I think I’m feeling that ‘where to put’ vibe among these 3 skills.) I am happy that Attaque Composee looks like the solid max skill.

You should add 5 points into DEX, 8~10 into CON and the rest into STR at early levels (up until level 40~50).

Then you can switch to a more heavy DEX stat allocation, like a 3 DEX : 1 STR until you reach the 100~150 you are looking for, then assess whether or not you feel comfortable with your Critical Rate and Evasion and decide if you should add more DEX or STR depending on how you are liking your character.

Most likely you will have to assess your build multiple times at different stages (maybe each Rank) as you progress through the game.

Hm. well, I’m already almost 40 and the 2:1 dex str along with guardian makes me survive great solo and party. I guess I can continue that instead then do a 3:1 when I reach 50 for a faster assessment on CR & Eva.

Plate.

OH I FORGOT! If I did fencer, would plate or leather be better? I do know that leather does that evasion thing on set while plate gives the HP on set. I feel like I should be doing leather, but then again, having plate is always an HP option (if ever I do have more con like 30~50 depending IF I WILL PUT ANY haha!)

Anyway, here’s the updated build:

TC: Skillful Maneuvers - Skill Simulator - Tree of Savior Fan Base

Thoughts (to summarize my long post full of comments):

• Peltasta - 4 Guardian, 1 Rim Blow for knockback
• Barbarian - Max Helm Chopper over Frenzy because skill
• Corsair - 4 Jolly Roger, 1 Dust Devil for mini cc
• Fencer - Max Lunge for evade & damage, 1 Preparation, 7 Sept Etoiles & 3 Flanconnade for that 300+ attack, 4 Attaque Coquille for the defense debuff uptime
• stat build sticks with 2:1 dex str up until 100~150 dex and then pump to
  str depending on critical rate & evasion
• how much con to put?
• question about which armor set to wear

[Faile]

@Cathexis
For information, I tested Cross Guard and Spear Lunge debuff, and it does stack.

But Cross Guard debuff is pretty weird, it seems to add a second smaller hit (50-70%dmg) for each pierce hit.

Overall it’s doable to double debuff a boss and spam stabbing (since I’m only C4) but I just have a hard time managing a block I’m not sure if every boss hits are blockables or if it’s just Cross Guard lv 5 that doesn’t give enough block.

We also don’t seem to have the auto-swaping weapong thing I heard kToS had. So the timeframe with both debuff goes away pretty fast…

[Cathexis]

I am still using my Didel Colo sword +10 (with 4 aoe ratio). What sword should I get next?

Just use the best you can get your hands on. Right now good weapons are scarce, so you might be limited on your options.

---

It’s PvE oriented but I don’t know if I like Corsair enough to drop C2 Doppel.

That is probably the only way I would end a Barbarian->Corsair C2 build, with Doppel C1 in it. So it is still a good option to go for if you are interested in that.

Are you planning on doing more discussions on the other trees?

Not for now. Without a testing environment like we had in beta, it becomes too difficult to gather accurate information from every class in a tree.

---

Was wondering why points into guardian, doesn’t it not stack with gung ho? Or is it for when you’re tanking?

Level 1 is more than enough for Guardian (so you get the +18 evasion attribute). And it is correct, it doesn’t stack with Gung Ho so you use one or the other, depending on the situation.

The only reason to add more points into Guardian is to increase the duration, which is something I do because the reduction in damage is meaningless and extra duration is nice.

Concentrate a skill you always try to keep up even at higher levels, or is there a certain point where you just stop using it?

When it takes you the same amount of hits to kill mobs with and without Concentrate. That is when you stop using it.

For hoplite, why did you recommend to max stabbing on circle 3 but pierce for circle 1-2? Circle 3 changes things?

That is because of the amount of skill points available you have.

At Circle 2 you will have enough points to get one of them to Level 10 and the other to Level 8. Which isn’t that much of a difference and both ways could work, but I feel Pierce gains more from those 2 extra points than Stabbing does (unless the scenario guarantees that Stabbing will deal all of it’s hits, which is mostly on PvE).

Once you reach Circle 3, there are not enough skill points. So one of them will be Level 15 and the other one will be Level 7~8. At this point it is better to max out Stabbing because of it’s shorter cooldown and the difference in damage is bigger now.

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Highlander’s attribute of 50% Crit Atk compensate trading it for Peltasta in a build with Barbarian and Doppel ( 2H Swords )?

In my opinion, not really. It is one of the minor reasons to take it. The main reason is to get Cross Guard and Crown for higher levels and/or PvP.

But my damage would get a HUGE upgrade from Highlander’s attribute, no?

It isn’t HUGE, but it could be a little helpful in solo play.

However, it is irrelevant in party play as the real damage comes from magic classes. So it is better to have Peltasta in those situations to be more useful.

---

which of the two is more skill based or auto attack based on gameplay?

Both use skills and fill their downtime with auto-attacks.

Which of the two will outshine one another in endgame?

Both outshine each other in different areas. Highlander has more debuffs while Barbarian has stuns.

What can one of the build do that the other cant?

Barbarian can:

• Stun for 2 seconds with two different skills, both with 2 Overcharge each.
• Increase it’s own Physical Attack by the use of Frenzy and/or War Cry.
• Slightly more AoE with Seism.

Highlander can:

• Apply Bleeding, Shock and Armor Break.
• Can block while using a 2H Sword.
• Slightly more burst damage with the use of multiple combo skills.

There is no clear winner, it really depends on the tools you want to have on your kit.

Stat distribution for 2h?

Evasion build with High DEX or All-around build heavy on STR.

---

Most probably, 4 jolly roger and 1 dust devil right?

Yeah, you can take 1 point from any of the other skills.

Is this evasion why Preparation is okay to be left at 1 because evade > block chance?

Well, it is mostly because the difference between level 1 and level 5 is only 20% extra block. Which could be meaningful, but then you consider that you are only getting double damage on the first hit after using it, so then it isn’t that worth it because the extra duration increase per skill level won’t make any difference.

Oh another skill that will battle along with Sept Etoiles & Flanconnade. The debuff feels great for solo and parties which makes me feel that having it at that sweet 4 to have it at the close uptime be very beneficial to sept etoiles & attaque composee (why I think I’m feeling that ‘where to put’ vibe among these 3 skills.) I am happy that Attaque Composee looks like the solid max skill.

You can always just get level 1 of each skill, try them out and put points into the ones you like the most.

OH I FORGOT! If I did fencer, would plate or leather be better?

Plate, always plate.

Anyway, here’s the updated build:

Looks good. I think you will have a better idea of how to allocate Fencer points once you reach that point and get to try level 1 of each skill (and you will have more experience with the game too).

---

For information, I tested Cross Guard and Spear Lunge debuff, and it does stack.

That is great to know, thanks for testing it out.

But Cross Guard debuff is pretty weird, it seems to add a second smaller hit (50-70%dmg) for each pierce hit.

You probably have to test three different scenarios to find how it works:

• With Spear Lunge alone
• With Cross Guard alone
• Using both of them

but I just have a hard time managing a block I’m not sure if every boss hits are blockables or if it’s just Cross Guard lv 5 that doesn’t give enough block.

Most boss skills are able to being blocked, with the exception of a few ones that knock you back. But yeah, it could be that you don’t have enough block with it yet, since it scales with STR and your level too.

We also don’t seem to have the auto-swaping weapong thing I heard kToS had. So the timeframe with both debuff goes away pretty fast…

Nope, but you can always put the weapon in your skill bar and use that instead of of weapon-swapping.

Either way, if you use the skill “at the same time” as the weapon-swapping, then you can pull off the entire process in half a second, so it depends a lot on how fast you are (and your ping).

[AlmostAscended]

Hi, my first character is a swordsman, and I am considering 1 of 2 builds after going thorugh Swords C1 -> Pel C1 -> Hop C1:

To either continue to Hop C3 -> Dop C1 -> Drag C1 as a pure PVE dps

Or to go Cata C3 -> Drag C1 as a PVE/PVP all rounder

To be honest, I would rather go cata as I can easily play another dps class while a cata’s mobility is unique. However, my only concern right now is the damage/grinding for Cata’s compared to the Hop 3/Dop1. Obviously it will be lower, but how MUCH lower? from the guide Cata is listed as a tanky AOE, but will the damage be high enough that grinding isn’t a massive pain, especially when soloing? How about killing bosses solo?

Thanks!

[Kokori]

Is there a reason my build seems more PVP oriented? I’m going to assume it’s because I decided to take Corsair’s hook skill. Other than that, it’s fine in a PVE standpoint right? Or would going all-around C3 cataphract -> Templar be more efficient? (I say Templar because I’m not so interested in Dragoon yet, though perhaps C1 Doppel might be a good pick at the end just for more things to work with.)

[tindcccd]

@Cathexis: I’m getting creative…is this an OK build for ya?
http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/ehu54ci85e/

[xechidna]

We also don’t seem to have the auto-swaping weapong thing I heard kToS had. So the timeframe with both debuff goes away pretty fast…

Nope, but you can always put the weapon in your skill bar and use that instead of of weapon-swapping.

Either way, if you use the skill “at the same time” as the weapon-swapping, then you can pull off the entire process in half a second, so it depends a lot on how fast you are (and your ping).

There is no auto weapon swapping thing.
thats just what it looks like, Its animation canceling.
How it works is editing the TOS files so that one key does 2 or more actions.
This allows the next action used to cancel out the ending lag of the previous action used in the sequence.
(Channeled skills can have thir ntire animations canceled before they even happen)

i.e Cross Guard canceling out the lag after weapon swapping.

@Cathexis what i was talking to you about in the PM basically

[Cathexis]

To be honest, I would rather go cata as I can easily play another dps class while a cata’s mobility is unique. However, my only concern right now is the damage/grinding for Cata’s compared to the Hop 3/Dop1. Obviously it will be lower, but how MUCH lower? from the guide Cata is listed as a tanky AOE, but will the damage be high enough that grinding isn’t a massive pain, especially when soloing? How about killing bosses solo?

Don’t worry, your damage will be lower but you can still kill anything in the game without any problems, and you can solo grind too thanks to your AoE skills. Not to even mention that you are using a 2H weapon.

You are still a damage dealing build, just that instead of more damage you are choosing to get mobility instead.

It is not like you are playing with a Peltasta C3->Squire C3 type of build to worry about struggling leveling.

You will be fine.

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I’m going to assume it’s because I decided to take Corsair’s hook skill. Other than that, it’s fine in a PVE standpoint right?

Mainly because of the emphasis on Keel Hauling.

But it does work for PvE, since you are aiming to get more money from killing mobs with Jolly Roger.

Or would going all-around C3 cataphract -> Templar be more efficient?

Templar would only be if you are interested in making a guild, otherwise there is no much point to it. So this and your previous build have totally different goals, depends on what you really want.

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I’m getting creative…is this an OK build for ya? http://www.tosbase.com/tools/skill-simulator/build/ehu54ci85e/

You didn’t specify your goals or anything, but yeah, it looks good and your skill point distribution is on point.

---

How it works is editing the TOS files so that one key does 2 or more actions. This allows the next action used to cancel out the ending lag of the previous action used in the sequence.(Channeled skills can have thir ntire animations canceled before they even happen)

i.e Cross Guard canceling out the lag after weapon swapping.

@Cathexis what i was talking to you about in the PM basically

I wouldn’t consider it a long term solution, as it is obviously not intended to work that way and should be patched sometime in the (maybe near) future.

[xechidna]

If IMC realizes that its a thing, that is.
but yes i wouldn’t rely on it staying around forever, thats why i took your advice not to build around it.
But while its here its easily exploitable.

[Efner]

hey, can you suggest me a build for pve fencer? right now im sword>pelta. I was thinking in something like this but I don’t think if it will works:

fencing - Skill Simulator - Tree of Savior Fan Base

I read that barb is better than HL but I think I don’t like the concept of the barbarian… should I go for HL3 and drop corsair?

[xechidna]

@Cathexis
Ill also note that the weapon swap animation into a 2H sword (from the hotkey bar) and immediately using cross guard can be done in about 0.20s without file editing, if you have low ping like me.

canceling channeled skills can also be done without file editing, but you will still see at least one frame of the skill.

File editing breaks the game tho…
you can even edit it to use skills that you shouldent be able to use while mounted

[Cathexis]

I read that barb is better than HL but I think I don’t like the concept of the barbarian… should I go for HL3 and drop corsair?

Either option is fine. If you want to play Highlander, then that is good too.

Between Corsair and Highlander C3, it would depend whether you consider the extra silver from Jolly Roger more important or if you would rather have Armor Break from the 3rd circle of Highlander.

Your build looks good overall, but make sure to get level 1 of Moulinet just so you have an extra damage skill in your bar for your early levels.

---

Ill also note that the weapon swap animation into a 2H sword (from the hotkey bar) and immediately using cross guard can be done in about 0.20s without file editing, if you have low ping like me.

Yeah, this is what I recommend. The entire process of weapon-swapping and using an skill can be done almost instantly with good reactions (and ping).

[rogeriofernandes87]

Hello everyone,
Iam complete New to this kind of game.
The last 3-4 Days i have done a lot of reading about TOS and its classes.

But First i want to thank Autentist and Cathexis for those two big guides.

I want to try out Swordsman.

So the idea here is to play DPS PVE.
One hand Spear and Shield and later Two Hand Spear.
In some situation i can swap from 2HSpear to 1HSpear Shield for more “Tank”

Here’s my build

Nazprel Dragoon - Skill Simulator - Tree of Savior Fan Base

Swordsman.C1
Gung Ho and Concentrate is a no brain i think
The rest i take Bash and Pain Barrier 4-1

Peltasta.C1 (tank situation)
Swash Buckling the only one “Taunt”
The rest i go for Umbo Blow and Guardian

Hoplite.C1
Finestra is a no brain
Stabbing-Pierce-Synchro Thrusting = 5-4-1 ( Not sure if this is good or not )

Hoplite.C2
Finestra same as above
Stabbing-Pierce-Synchro Thrusting= 10-7-1 (Again not sure if this is good or not)
Spear Lunge just one point because more does not increase the duration of the vulnerability to Pierce attacks.
Long Stride just one point. (But maybe without it)

Hoplite.C3
Finestra same as above
Stabbing maxing it out
Spear Throw just for the 0cd Cooldown
Pierce put the rest of the points

Doppelsoeldner.C1
Cyclone i think is a no brain to max it out
Deeds of Valor max it out to
Mordschlag or Double Pay Earn i would take full Mordschlag but not sure.

Dragoon.C1
Gae Bulg i think that the Dmg of this spell is insane so max out
Dragontooth-Serpentine-Dragon Soar i think i but the points so 5-4-1

So this is how my build looks like.
I would appreciate some feedback about the build.

Now about the stats allocation.

I think i would go with 10 points rotation.
5-STR, 3-CON, 1-SPR, 1-DEX
Not sure if 3-Con in all rotation would be necessary.

Again i would appreciate some feedback about this.

I would be grateful for all of your comments.

[Cathexis]

Hello, welcome. Let’s see:

• Swordsman: Remove 1 point from Bash and add it to Pain Barrier, as it is the best way to use that remaining stat point (you only need Bash at 3 for the knockdown attribute).

• Peltasta: You want 1 point into Rim Blow because it is a knockback skill.

• Hoplite: Consider taking Spear Throw to level 5, removing those points from Pierce, as it is generally a better option to have as a damage tool at higher levels.

• Doppelsoeldner: Mordschlag only serves as a CC skill, so level 1 is more than enough for it. The other 4 points should go into Double Pay Earn.

I think i would go with 10 points rotation.5-STR, 3-CON, 1-SPR, 1-DEX

You don’t need SPR, so you can skip that one.

CON is way too high, try reducing it to 1~2 points instead (you can fluctuate between these values as you evaluate the progress of your character as you keep on leveling it).

I think your stat allocation is fine for early levels as a new player to the game, so we can throw that extra point from SPR into DEX and it would look like this:

6 STR : 2 CON : 2 DEX

For early levels I think that is fine, you should get around 15~ points of CON and DEX following that stat allocation by the time you reach level 50.

You might notice that level 50 would equal to 10 points on each one, but the difference of points (from 10 to 15) comes from the status points you acquire through some quests and statues you find on some maps, that is why there is an excess of it.

This should give you a good amount of stats to survive your first runs of the level 50 dungeon while you get used to playing in a party environment like that.

After that, you can decide if you feel comfortable enough with your build and you can start using a heavy STR allocation like 9 STR : 1 DEX, or you can decide on adding more points into CON and DEX every now and then.

But for now I would recommend you that as a new player.

[Efner]

Thanks for the feedback, I will check about Armor Break and Moulinet.

Do you think that Barb is better for fencer? everyone I asked told me to change HL2+C/HL3 for Barb3 because “have more damage” but I still don’t understand why barb > hl for everyone or what skill is the deal breaker