I heard that during mounting, Barbarian skills cant be use… is it true???
You can’t use Seism, Cleave, Giant Swing, Embowel and Stomping Kick, which makes it a bad idea to go Barbarian->Cataphract since 2 of your main skills are unusable.
You can always dismount to use those skills and the mount back, but it is a lot of hassle.
But about damage, you have to consider that Barbarian = Burst, while Hoplite = DPS.
Hoplite has higher DPS than Barbarian the longer a fight is. Hoplite is also not based around skills, but based around auto-attacks with high-cooldown burst skills like Pierce and Stabbing.
Reading your posts, I am not entirely sure what you are looking for:
- Do you simply want to use a spear?
- Do you want to be mounted?
- Do you want to use a lot of skills?
- Do you simply want to deal the most damage, no matter what weapon or class it is?
- Or do you want to deal as much damage as possible while restricted to using a spear?
- If dealing the most damage is what you are looking for: is this for short or long fights?
- Normal PvE? Mobbing? Bosses?
Once you define what kind of playing style you want to have, then a build can easily be made with the right classes that fit what you are looking for.
2 Likes
Thanks Cathexis
Thanks for the explanation and I will have a clear consideration base on that.
One more question, do u prefer cataphract c3 than c2, resulting having Hoplite c1 than c2 respectively.
Thanks a lot
In my opinion, if you pick Cataphract then might as well go to C3 to get the most out of it:
- 99% Trot up-time
- More hits and damage for your skills (Earth Wave!)
- Rush now has a 50 seconds cool-down, which makes it pretty decent.
While Spear Lunge gives you a good tool for specific situations (bosses for example), Cataphract C3 remains stronger for everything else compared to Hoplite C2.
2 Likes
Since cata got a good buff. I hope others hoplite skill would get some love too, having overcharge on pierce, synchro thrust and long stride would be nice. Overrelying on only pierce and stabbing gets boring real fast. Spear throw is a disappointment of a circle 3 skill.
yes I agree. Any improvements in the hoplite skill will be much appreciated like
overcharge on pierce or just reduce cd
reduce cd on stab (minus 5 - 10secs maybe)
increase duration attribute for spear lunge (1-3 secs more)
increase range for long stride with maybe a stun aoe attribute
increase range for throw spear.
i’d prefer to see more damage than overheats.
the good cata skills got cooldown decreased and can be casted while walking, so cata is A LOT better in my opinion, buuuut i still would prefer going hoplite instead of cata and using shield (dragoon skills can use shield too) u could use that 100% pierce bonus with dragoon skils what is awesome cus they hit A LOT and are faster too
Hello Cathexis,
With the reveal of Dragoon and the emphasis of it being better with Two-Hand Spears, what becomes of this build?
I haven’t played the game yet but based on my understanding, it seems that the Attribute “Use Two-Hand Spears” from the Cataphract class is required for a swordsman to use, well, Two-Hand Spears.
My question is then, what would be the recommended path if you are planning to have a Dragoon that can use Two-Hand Spears?
My initial plan was to follow your path:
- Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C3 > Doppelsoeldner > Dragoon
But if at least Cataphract C1 is required for the Two-Hand Spears, here are my options
Straight-up replace Doppelsoeldner with Cataphract:
- Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C3 > Cataphract > Dragoon
To make get more out of Cataphract:
- Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C2 > Cataphract C2 > Dragoon
But since I’m really liking what Doppelsoeldner has to offer (Cyclone and Deeds of Valor)
- Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C2 > Cataphract > Doppelsoeldner > Dragoon
Your thoughts? Or maybe I’m just wrong about the whole Two-Hand spear thing.
Thanks for the great guide, and for replying to new comments despite the age of this post.
Dragoon has the attribute for 2h spear as well
Oh, that changes things.
I was checking tosbase.com’s skill database and found no such attribute for Dragoon, making me believe that Cataphract would be necessary.
Would the mobility boost from Cataphract be beneficial for a Dragoon?
I am under the impression that for Cataphract movement boost to be effective, you need to have Trot Level 15.
Which would require me to run Cataphract C3.
Is it really worth it to put 15 Skill Points on a movement buff?
As of the moment, I would rather deal more damage than to be able to move fast.
Thanks!
Imo I’ll take at least c1 cata just for the mount speed bonus. I mean it’s every melee users dream to reach attack range faster and kite better right? But in the end it’s your choice. If memory serves the base mount speed is like dash lvl 15 trot is sonic the hedgehog
Hello Cathexis,
How is the transition from Spear-Shield to Two-Hand Spear?
Wouldn’t the High STR build be quite difficult to pull off when using Two-Hand spears?
Leveling as a Hoplite, you relied on your shield to mitigate the damage; you would not have that luxury when transitioning into a Two-Hand class (i.e. Catphract, Dragoon).
If that is the case, would a High DEX build be more suitable?
Thanks!
In my opinion, taking only Cataphract C1 or C2 will make any build inefficient. If you are planning on taking Cataphract, it is highly recommended that you take it to C3 to get the most out of it. And yes, it really is worth investing 15 points into Trot.
But on the other hand, you can also use Dragoon skills with a 1H spear, you are not forced to use a 2H one. This allows you to use a dagger or a shield on your off-hand. And in the current state of the game, it was much better to use 1H Spear+Dagger for damage output instead of a 2H Spear, because of the effects of Arde/Karacha Daggers.
At this point in time it is hard to say what will be better, as we don’t have much information about what new equipment we will have available with the new level cap (280 for now). Maybe 2H Spears become better, or it stays the same way where 1H Spear+Dagger deals more damage, or maybe it won’t matter even if you use a shield.
So for now, all I can say is that a high DEX build wouldn’t be efficient for a Hoplite until you actually get to Dragoon, which is a long way to go.
Edit:
I listed on my other thread a few of the builds I consider look the best right now for Dragoon (with the information available so far):
Swordsman->Peltasta->Hoplite->Cataphract C3->Dragoon
Swordsman->Peltasta->Barbarian C3->Doppelsoeldner->Dragoon
Swordsman->Peltasta->Hoplite C2->Corsair C2->Dragoon
Swordsman->Peltasta->Hoplite C3->Doppelsoeldner->Dragoon
*Swordsman->Highlander C3->Anything->Doppelsoeldner->Dragoon
From here: [Review][Mini-Guide] Swordsman: All classes and best builds
If taking only c1 c2 cata is inefficient isn’t taking only c1 c2 hoplite even more inefficient?
c2 hoplite is sufficient enough. On c3 you only have a bit better finestra, and that’s all.
If you go c2 cata you need to time your trot better, and c3 is definitely better, but I don’t think it’s a must to go.
But tbh isn’t just getting cata c1 earlier just for the mount is so worth for the clear speed cause gap closer lol even without trot the mount alrdy has similar ms to dash
On what builds?
It is always about trying to maximize what you can get along the way while you reach your desired class and build goals.
For example, most Cataphract builds are only able to get Hoplite C1, while other builds like Corsair C2 can only go up to Hoplite C2. Those build are getting the best out of their available options through each step they take.
Now, on this particular case: Cataphract C3 vs Hoplite C2.
If one is mainly building a Cataphract (which is pretty much the case by simply picking the class up), then you want to maximize the benefits this class brings to you.
In this case, your skills not only get more damage but their utility increases as you put more points into them. The two main being Earth Wave, which hits more times at higher levels, and Trot which goes faster and lasts longer with more points into it.
Not only that, but the goals of Cataphract also involve “attacking while moving”, which gets even better once you get to C3 and acquire Rush.
You really, really want to have maximum speed and 100% uptime on Trot. It makes a HUGE difference. Mazimizing the core aspects of your build is always the best way to move forward.
On the other hand, you have Hoplite C2, which gives you Spear Lunge.
Now, Spear Lunge is a very nice skill and certainly has some uses (mostly bosses, to be honest). And while you will have Finestra with a 100% uptime, it is still not enough to justify not maximizing the core aspects of Cataphract to pick up these ones which are core to the Hoplite class.
I would pick up the benefits of Cataphract C3 over the ones from Hoplite C2 any day, as they are overall much better for all aspects of the game, instead of a very limited use like the other option gives.
This is of course, in a Cataphract-centric build. On a Hoplite-centric build the argument changes, and I wouldn’t even consider picking up a single circle of Cataphract as the goals of a Hoplite build are much different.
But yes of course it’s a hopelite centered build therefor just getting c1 cata, to me even tho as how lousy as it seems having a ms bonus utility it’s definitely worth for long run.
It depends on what your build’s goals are.
Like I said on my “All Swordsman Classes” thread: Every build is viable. You can pick any and every class you want, and you will still get through the game with no problems.
Having an inefficient build, doesn’t mean it is bad.
In the case of a Hoplite build, it is inefficient because your damage output will go down by picking up 1 circle of Cataphract, since the new skills you pick up will be very weak compared to their efficient versions, and you could have picked up much better options to improve your build.
The movement speed from using a mount is barely noticeable, doesn’t make any difference in my opinion. It only starts to become really good once you are past level 10 of Trot (which doesn’t last enough) and up to level 15 (which is pretty much 100% uptime and very fast).