Tree of Savior Forum

[Guide] Hoplite - By Cathexis

Class and Rank
#231

Hello Cathexis,

With the reveal of Dragoon and the emphasis of it being better with Two-Hand Spears, what becomes of this build?

I haven’t played the game yet but based on my understanding, it seems that the Attribute “Use Two-Hand Spears” from the Cataphract class is required for a swordsman to use, well, Two-Hand Spears.

My question is then, what would be the recommended path if you are planning to have a Dragoon that can use Two-Hand Spears?

My initial plan was to follow your path:

  • Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C3 > Doppelsoeldner > Dragoon

But if at least Cataphract C1 is required for the Two-Hand Spears, here are my options

Straight-up replace Doppelsoeldner with Cataphract:

  • Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C3 > Cataphract > Dragoon

To make get more out of Cataphract:

  • Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C2 > Cataphract C2 > Dragoon

But since I’m really liking what Doppelsoeldner has to offer (Cyclone and Deeds of Valor)

  • Swordsman > Peltasta > Hoplite C2 > Cataphract > Doppelsoeldner > Dragoon

Your thoughts? Or maybe I’m just wrong about the whole Two-Hand spear thing.

Thanks for the great guide, and for replying to new comments despite the age of this post.

#232

Dragoon has the attribute for 2h spear as well

#233

Oh, that changes things.
I was checking tosbase.com’s skill database and found no such attribute for Dragoon, making me believe that Cataphract would be necessary.

Would the mobility boost from Cataphract be beneficial for a Dragoon?
I am under the impression that for Cataphract movement boost to be effective, you need to have Trot Level 15.
Which would require me to run Cataphract C3.
Is it really worth it to put 15 Skill Points on a movement buff?
As of the moment, I would rather deal more damage than to be able to move fast.

Thanks!

#234

Imo I’ll take at least c1 cata just for the mount speed bonus. I mean it’s every melee users dream to reach attack range faster and kite better right? But in the end it’s your choice. If memory serves the base mount speed is like dash lvl 15 trot is sonic the hedgehog

#235

Hello Cathexis,

How is the transition from Spear-Shield to Two-Hand Spear?
Wouldn’t the High STR build be quite difficult to pull off when using Two-Hand spears?

Leveling as a Hoplite, you relied on your shield to mitigate the damage; you would not have that luxury when transitioning into a Two-Hand class (i.e. Catphract, Dragoon).

If that is the case, would a High DEX build be more suitable?

Thanks!

#236

@sporeing

In my opinion, taking only Cataphract C1 or C2 will make any build inefficient. If you are planning on taking Cataphract, it is highly recommended that you take it to C3 to get the most out of it. And yes, it really is worth investing 15 points into Trot.

But on the other hand, you can also use Dragoon skills with a 1H spear, you are not forced to use a 2H one. This allows you to use a dagger or a shield on your off-hand. And in the current state of the game, it was much better to use 1H Spear+Dagger for damage output instead of a 2H Spear, because of the effects of Arde/Karacha Daggers.

At this point in time it is hard to say what will be better, as we don’t have much information about what new equipment we will have available with the new level cap (280 for now). Maybe 2H Spears become better, or it stays the same way where 1H Spear+Dagger deals more damage, or maybe it won’t matter even if you use a shield.

So for now, all I can say is that a high DEX build wouldn’t be efficient for a Hoplite until you actually get to Dragoon, which is a long way to go.

Edit:

I listed on my other thread a few of the builds I consider look the best right now for Dragoon (with the information available so far):

Swordsman->Peltasta->Hoplite->Cataphract C3->Dragoon
Swordsman->Peltasta->Barbarian C3->Doppelsoeldner->Dragoon
Swordsman->Peltasta->Hoplite C2->Corsair C2->Dragoon
Swordsman->Peltasta->Hoplite C3->Doppelsoeldner->Dragoon
*Swordsman->Highlander C3->Anything->Doppelsoeldner->Dragoon

From here: [Review][Mini-Guide] Swordsman: All classes and best builds

#237

If taking only c1 c2 cata is inefficient isn’t taking only c1 c2 hoplite even more inefficient?

#238

c2 hoplite is sufficient enough. On c3 you only have a bit better finestra, and that’s all.

If you go c2 cata you need to time your trot better, and c3 is definitely better, but I don’t think it’s a must to go.

#239

But tbh isn’t just getting cata c1 earlier just for the mount is so worth for the clear speed cause gap closer lol even without trot the mount alrdy has similar ms to dash

#240

@Itzkyo

On what builds?

It is always about trying to maximize what you can get along the way while you reach your desired class and build goals.

For example, most Cataphract builds are only able to get Hoplite C1, while other builds like Corsair C2 can only go up to Hoplite C2. Those build are getting the best out of their available options through each step they take.

Now, on this particular case: Cataphract C3 vs Hoplite C2.

If one is mainly building a Cataphract (which is pretty much the case by simply picking the class up), then you want to maximize the benefits this class brings to you.

In this case, your skills not only get more damage but their utility increases as you put more points into them. The two main being Earth Wave, which hits more times at higher levels, and Trot which goes faster and lasts longer with more points into it.

Not only that, but the goals of Cataphract also involve “attacking while moving”, which gets even better once you get to C3 and acquire Rush.

You really, really want to have maximum speed and 100% uptime on Trot. It makes a HUGE difference. Mazimizing the core aspects of your build is always the best way to move forward.

On the other hand, you have Hoplite C2, which gives you Spear Lunge.

Now, Spear Lunge is a very nice skill and certainly has some uses (mostly bosses, to be honest). And while you will have Finestra with a 100% uptime, it is still not enough to justify not maximizing the core aspects of Cataphract to pick up these ones which are core to the Hoplite class.

I would pick up the benefits of Cataphract C3 over the ones from Hoplite C2 any day, as they are overall much better for all aspects of the game, instead of a very limited use like the other option gives.

This is of course, in a Cataphract-centric build. On a Hoplite-centric build the argument changes, and I wouldn’t even consider picking up a single circle of Cataphract as the goals of a Hoplite build are much different.

#241

But yes of course it’s a hopelite centered build therefor just getting c1 cata, to me even tho as how lousy as it seems having a ms bonus utility it’s definitely worth for long run.

#242

It depends on what your build’s goals are.

Like I said on my “All Swordsman Classes” thread: Every build is viable. You can pick any and every class you want, and you will still get through the game with no problems.

Having an inefficient build, doesn’t mean it is bad.

In the case of a Hoplite build, it is inefficient because your damage output will go down by picking up 1 circle of Cataphract, since the new skills you pick up will be very weak compared to their efficient versions, and you could have picked up much better options to improve your build.

The movement speed from using a mount is barely noticeable, doesn’t make any difference in my opinion. It only starts to become really good once you are past level 10 of Trot (which doesn’t last enough) and up to level 15 (which is pretty much 100% uptime and very fast).

#243

I’m going c3 hoplite cause the block rate and crit for aa since block is % chance not flat i might be wrong but in the icbt I block alot yes the build will lack alot of skills to rotate since going doppel serves not much use cause u can’t cyclone with mount and I wouldnt wanna miss a mount ability since u can get it so earlier and only dedicated to spear classes so far even u say it’s barely noticeable but I recall doing a speed test with swordy dash and it’s equally fast and taking it early also makes u have less worry of what to take after 6

#244

(Block is flat, not a %)

You are still not doing anything better though.

Damage: You will deal less damage since you picked a path that lowers your possible damage output.

Mobbing: Doesn’t make any difference without Trot.

Bosses: No difference with or without mount.

PvP: No difference unless you use Trot.

All of those things are a lot better if you pick anything else, like Doppelsoeldner or Corsair. You get more damage, better DPS, faster bosses, faster mobbing, better PvP.

#245

Don’t go for block, trust me, it’s not worth it. I did test with 888 block and you block 80% of the physical attacks. But of course you deal peanut damage and can’t kill anything.

Crit can be compensated with green gem. Currently we only see 6 stars gem but later on 7 or 8 stars will make up the for lower level of finestra.

#246
  1. What will make higher dmg for dragoon:
    2H spear or 1H(+2 hoplite skills) + flame dagger?

or dragoon skills are only for 2H spears? or dragoon has passive skills that increase 2H spear damage?

  1. if somebody will have some info about corsair C3 pistol effectiveness - please write in this topic your experience.

i am trying to choose one of builds:

  1. pelt + 3*hoplite + doppel + dragoon
  2. pelt + 2hoplite + 3corsair (or 3hoplite + 2corsair if pistols are bad choice)
#247

@amadze

  1. At this point in time, we don’t really know. We need to see what level 200+ equipment we will have available to know which option will be better. This is also assuming they didn’t change how +elemental damage works.

  2. The only information we have so far about Corsair C3 is the new skill, Pistol Shot, as well as the attribute to use pistols on your off-hand.

Corsair C3 doesn’t look good so far, since the skills don’t scale that well and Pistol Shot doesn’t look like something impressive. If they don’t change anything, then I think there are better options to take instead of C3, unless you really want to have a pistol on your off-hand.

We will see, just wait a little more for information to come out of the korean open beta (which started today), so you can take a better decision for your build.

#248

i have hard time choosing whether to go hoplite c3 > doppel c1 or corsair c1 c2 or cata c1 c2 for rank 5 6.
give me some insight…

#249

wait while players in kOBT will reach 280 lvl. now there are no usefull info to choose =))

#250

hi cathexis

currently play sw>pel>hop2>cor on kobt

you guide is very helpful my early day
thank you so much

now to question
i am as well as you feel that hop is aa class because of long cool down

i am thinking to take powerhouse sw>hi2>hop2>dop>dragoon path
hi2 is for sky liner which is buffed to 0cd for 8sp at lv1 as aa replacement which get huge bonus on bleeding target (crosscut, piecing) and also give more option to access strike/slash damage

this build retains hop2 core power while only lose 1 highlander skill that cant be used with spear, cri attack bonus on 2H sword is big though but I have no regret committing to Finestra religious.

do you think it is a good investment in two highlander classes?