Tree of Savior Forum

Gazing golem card vs swordman c3 for PVE

Class and Rank Swordsman
#1

With the incoming gazing golem card, is there any reason to pick swordman c3 for PVE?
restrain - 1 second stun and 11 second slow which isnt that useful at PVE, tried cyclone+pistol shot+restrain already
concentrate - add 1-2k bonus flat dmg per hit
double slash - potential burst for shinobi, frequently crit but the total damage is worse than what 1 rank of highlander can provide
pain barrier - numbing your reflex to evade enemy attack, lazy mode.

My build is sw3pelt1cor3dop1 and i feel a huge gap of inactivity between my skill rotation, which make me think better to use 3 lv10 gazing golem and swordman c1+any other job

#2

You feel a huge hole in your skills rotation because you went Pelt1, imho Barb1 was a better choice dps-wise.
With Barb1 you have acess to Cleave, Helm Chopper and Stomping Kick (now it deals 605% at level 5 with 3 overheats, it’s not as bad as before) also with Cleave debuff, you and your clones (if Shinobi) do way more damage with basic attacks/Double Slash, same with your Corsair skill, Dust Devil or with Cyclone (if Doppel).

My Corsair used to be Sw3Pelt1Cor3Dopp1 before balance patch, then I went Sw3Barb1Cor3Shin during free reset weeks and I don’t regret it one bit (maybe Doppel1 as Rank8 would still be a better choice imho).

The only reason people go for Pelt1 is for the taunt, which is a very lazy way to play anyway… if you want a soft taunt, you can use the flag, it aggroes every monster in his circle and also takes some hits in your place, and when it’s on CD, you can simply use the secondary autos with the pistol to aggro mobs and group them together (remember your pistol autoattacks can penetrate monsters in a line, shooting the furthest away is a nice trick to aggro more monsters wasting less time).

The only other build I can see viable for Corsair3 right now, it’s Sword1Highlander3Corsair3Dopp1orShinobi, but you’ll need to have both a 2handed weapon and a 1handedweapon+pistol to run that, and unless you love going around with subpar weapons, that’s a lot of investment for a farming character.

Long story short, Swordman 3 isn’t all about PB15 and Restrain, still, you’re not forced to use Gazing Golems having 15PB.
In your case you have better options in cards purple sockets, Yekub Card (+100 holy damage), Yeti/Nephentes (more Hp or HP/SP), Rajapearl (Bleed chance) or Marnox (lol) for crit rate.

#3

nah, pelt in my build contribute more than 2 circle of swordman that i’d rather trade it with 2 circle of highlander for filler skill. And i like to combo using skill A+ skill B, much more satisfying than buff A+skill B.
When was the rebalance patch again? i read Corsair-highlander question dated june 17 and i research about it, found Help Corsair 3 Builds dated around may 17, which make me thinking sw3pel1cor3dop is better than sw1hl2 variant of that build.
My main char is rogue, played it since before werewolf card having rear attack effect, i used to the agile gameplay, to move around searching the enemy’s back. Pain barrier is the exact opposite of that, just attack and attack without worrying getting knockback.

#4

Why not go SW3 but drop Pain Barrier to get Concentration and Gung Ho at max + all other relevant Swordsman skills like Thrust, Bash,Double Slash and Pommel Beat?
Or you could max Restrain if you like to use DWA…

Question is: Does the Pain Barrier duration increase also affect the Pain Barrier invoked by the Gazing Golem cards?

#5

gungho can’t be used with guardian from pelt. I maxed restrain already, combined it with cyclone and pistol shot but the CC effect is too short to be useful.
I predict when you use pain barrier lv 15 and gazing golem got triggered, it will overwrite your pain barrier lv 15, just like it overwrite itself at gazing golem demo video.

#6

Why’d you want to use Guardian of Peltasta in the first place? Just because of the 150 evasion? Gung Ho gives you additional damage when you need it, so it’s not bad to have even if you need to drop your Guardian on that occasion.

Restrain is only effective with quick, successive attacks, hence I said DWA [= Double Weapon Assault] makes good use of it if you have some DEX.

About Pain Barrier, I said to drop it (meaning level 0 or 1) if you use the Gazing Golem card. That way you get additional points to invest into the other skills.

Btw, if you are Corsair, you shouldn’t have time left in your rotation anyway, since you’ve got DWA to act as a filler skill and Thrust/Bash/Double Slash/Pommel Beat, all with overheats and relatively short CD times…

#7

Why not go Sw pelt hop 2 cor 2 drag 2 it is rank 9 ready and if there is no options then you can simply go corsair 3 or dragoon 3. Spear lunge and serpentine debuff seems good lol. IDK why people wants sw3 barb cor 3 doppel on your build though. I have that myself and I regret it. Im still waiting for a reset to go sw3 pelt cor 3 doppel. Swash+ guardian > cleave.

#8

let me guess, the main reason for hoplite is finestra right? finestra lv 15 give 200 crit rate, hmm… that’s very small amount compared to rogue’s sneakhit lv 5.

i am using this, it lacks bossing capability, hardly manage to survive and defeat double bosses at the start of crystal mine mission, discouraging me to solo mining. barb1 maybe for cleave+cyclone.What make you love sw3 that much?

#9

Honestly I dont love swordsman 3 at all since im just forced to take it. I am also not a fan of non pelt swordsman build unless I go lancer or doppel. Dont take my comment seriously. I still wont retract my previous comment on a post though. Swordsman is always swordsman 1 or swordsman 3. Non pelt build for a non 2hander build is an eyesore.

Not sure how gg cards will work though since imc is notorious in trolling players with their ninja nerfs but if they stay that way then we can probably have more options not limited to sw3 builds.

#10

if gg doesnt get nerfed then almost all nonshinosw3 want rank reset

#11

Because Cleave gives you not only crit on use (+100 crit rate) but more damage using Slash attacks, Double Slash (3 overheats) Dust Devil (3 overheats) Cyclone if Doppel (2 overheat) or clones+skills (if Shinobi). That’s a lot more damage.
I wonder why would you prefer Swash+Guardian over that.
Swash is pure lazyness in solo game-play and Guardian gives you a -5% physical attack penalty and no access to Gung Ho (which at LV10-15 gives lots of Physical Attack, scaling off your STR).
If it’s not working out for you, you may consider using a better weapon or you’re doing something very wrong with your rotation. :confused:

@myself As you said, if you lack damage on Boss scenarios, that’s the more reason to drop Peltasta1 which gives you nothing in terms of DPS… Guardian nerfs your overall damage and the evasion/armor contribution is nothing game breaking considering the new formulas, also, if you like a more “agile” playstyle, why you went for Peltasta in the first place? :smiley:

Again, if you’re not satisfied with Swordman3, you can simply reset Sword1High3 instead of your Sword3Pelt1, and use Gazing Golems card when the patch comes, if you still like it, either you drop points on PB as suggested or simply don’t use Gazing Golem cards and use something else in your purple sockets…

#12

this is your answer’s priority:
-drop pelt, still save sword3
-pick sword1 but wear gazing golem
-dont use gazing golem
makes me think you are too used to pain barrier-ed playstyle.
I take peltasta for party play. And i think sword2＆3 is the more dispensable part of my build, imho

#13

I’m not “too used” to Pain Barrier, 3 of my 4 main character can’t even use it.
It’s simply a matter that PB is too good to skip on characters that can have it, most Boss abilities can’t be dodge or jumped, there is nothing you can do about it beside getting knocked down.
If you don’t like it, simply don’t place any points in it/don’t use Gazing Golems, my other points about your rank choices still stand.
You asked for advices, I gave some, if you don’t like them, of course you’re free to do whatever you want. :slight_smile:

#14

to be frank, as a newbie swordman i just curious what makes any swordman addicted to swordman3/pain barrier and after i tested using pain barrier myself i dont get that same feeling, on contrary i hate it because it affecting my archer gameplay(too lazy to jump/evade incoming attack).

#15

Because in PvE knockdown and knockback was nerfed that’s why you barely feel the difference with pain barrier, before… even normal monsters can knock the crap out of you e.g 290 dg mobs. As a sw3, I only use pain barrier when bossing and roaming in PvE.

imo, this is the best build if you want good skill rotations:
https://tos.neet.tv/skill-planner#112228889

Just use agro quests for getting agro, no need swashbuckling.

#16

I heard that they will nerf in the future the gazing golem card. Is it true?

#17

Current version is already nerfed

-Effects can’t be proc untill effects have expired

#18

Oooh. And how is it now the performance of the card? Still strong?

#19

You still get knock down once in a while , which is a rare occurrence. It still procs very often as Long as you are mobbed , or hit by boss’ multi hit skills.

In the past it was literally 100% up time and 100 % refresh for PB. Now there is a small chance of getting knocked. Still useful I would say

#20

I see. Thanks for the replies :grinning: As the OP said, it seems that there is no reason to pick sw c3 while we have gazing golems cards. The good thing is that it makes more builds viable, but in the other hand makes 3 circles of investment not worth it at all.