Do you think going linker 2 instead of linker/warlock will be good too?
Iāve been comparing OPās build to that of a Wiz3/Ele3/War1 for PvE and here are some of my findings. Hopefully theyāll help someone decide which path to go down.
Some highlights:
1- Sorc2 Templeshooter is a cheaper but worse scaling Frost Cloud
A Sorc2ās TS autos + TS skill spam (Riding > Skill > Morph > Riding > Skill > Summoning > etc.) is approximately the same DPS as a FC, assuming:
- TS skill and FC are used off cooldown
- TS is 10*, Summoning is Lv10
- FC is Lv5 and 100% attributed
- Hitting a single target
- Both are 100 CON builds with max INT for Sorc (around 570 INT) and max MATK/MAMP for Ele (around 1600 MATK / 500 MAMP)
Immediately you can see it is a lot cheaper to get a 10* TS than it is to 100% attribute FC, not to mention get 3 perfect roll head gears with MATK and MAMP as well as a +15 weapon.
However, due to the minuscule contribution INT provides to TS damage and how hard it is to get bonus INT vs the availability of MATK/MAMP from higher level weapons alone, its safe to say that FC will scale better all the way up to Lv400-500s.
Also note that FC benefits from Chrono3, Thau3 and other damage boosting buffs whereas TS does not.
2- Hail is better than anything a Sorc2 has for bossing
This is a simple fact, since the only other damage a Sorc2 gets is from Summon Familiar which does a measly 50k burst (assuming highest MATK/MAMP gear with 10% dark bonus from War and 100% attribute). Hail will do at least 3-5x more assuming the boss stands in it for the entire duration.
3- Link makes Sorc2 equal, if not better, at killing 2-5 targets
Wiz3 MM, Sorc2 Bats and War1 Dark Theurge and Invocation (and to some lesser extent Pole of Agony) all benefit from Joint Penalty + Hangmanās Knot, which an Ele3 does not have.
4- Templeshooter skills will not spawn Invocation spirits
Considering how much bonus damage Invocation provides (through spirits and dark bonus) this is an important point to note. Depending on how densely populated the farm area is, this could mean a huge loss of overall damage.
Interesting points aside, hereās a more summarized general comparison:
Wiz3/Link1/Sorc2/War1:
- Will require 2 sets of gear, one for INT and one for maximum MATK/MAMP
- Can save silver on attributes, since they only have Summon Familiar
- Does significantly worse on drawn out boss fights, due to lack of Hail
- Does well or better vs small mob packs when solo
- Does worse against large mob packs due to anti-synergy with Summoning and Invocation when solo
- Biggest source of damage (Templeshooter) can be killed; this will happen regularly in missions where thereās more than a 5 level difference between the Sorc and the bosses
- More mobile solo playstyle; has no skills with cast time and only dps skill (bats) can be cancelled
- Is more dangerous to play in a party setting due to having to stand close to targets when Riding to maximize use of TSās skill; this is slightly offset by being less likely to be hit while riding, but when you disembarkā¦
- Does not benefit as much as Ele3 from having damage boosting supports in party (Chrono3, Link3, Thau3, etc.); this difference will shrink as more ranks come out however
- Has a mini tank that can be sent ahead to draw aggro; this gets less and less useful the higher level the Sorc is
- Can semi-afk farm low level areas with Summoning; same as above, this becomes impossible at higher level areas
- Provides Sorc Cat buffs (SP regen and Aoe Ratio scale very well) and Link1 skills for party (which is better than nothing if there is no Linker around)
Wiz3/Ele3/War1
- Will require only 1 set of gear for max MATK/MAMP
- Needs to level attributes of Frost Cloud, Hail and possibly Electrocute to stay competitive in DPS (3 skills vs Sorc2ās 1 skill)
- 2nd best class for bossing in the entire game, in or out of a party setting (Fletchers take 1st, IMO)
- 2nd best class for mobbing in a party setting (losing out only to Schwarze Ritterās Retreat Shot, IMO)
- Excellent for mobbing when solo, pulling ahead of Sorc when there are more than 5 mobs
- Has 1 more CC skill in Stone Curse that is an excellent 1 point wonder
- Is more dangerous to play solo than Sorc, due to having to stand still and cast at the beginning of each fight; this isnāt really a problem unless fighing ranged/magic mobs
- Is safer in a party setting assuming you have someone to pull aggro, since you can stand out of harmās way
- Ele AoEs can be avoided or in the case of Earth Tower Lv10 boss, completely removed, completely negating the majority of Ele damage
- Benefits immensely from having a Chrono3 (or any damage boosting support) in party
- Does not provide any party benefits, outside of being one of the best DPS classes in the game (which is more than ample)
TLDR:
Link1/Sorc2 does not scale better than Ele3 for damage, not now nor in the future. It will always do significantly less damage in a party setting with damage boosting supports.
However, it is cheaper in terms of attribute costs (1 skill + 10* TS card vs 3 skills), only slightly more in terms of gear (you need 1 more set for max INT) and has some useful utility that scales very well regardless of level (<3 cat buffs and JP + HK). It is also a safer solo grinder that can semi-afk farm low level areas.
5 Likes
Some additional points:
Note that Sorcs are not limited to just TS. Future boss cards may be stronger than TS, or provide some form of utility thatās highly desirable in PvE. Current boss cards may be buffed into usefulness too.
Also, thereās nothing wrong with being weaker than Ele3s - theyāre just too strong in comparison to everyone else. In fact, Wiz3/Link1/Sorc2 is possibly the strongest Wiz build besides Ele3, until they port over Pyro3 changes to iToS.
Hi moises, really liked your build and my only doubt is about getting Wiz3ā¦ is quickcast that much of a must have? I mean, wouldnāt be better getting Linker c2 with Pyro/Cryo 1?
Thanks
Hi yall. Just throwing this out here:
Invocation does have a damage attribute. (rip wallets 
i wish it just took theurgeās values).
The number of hits per spirit is the same as theurge, whichās to say 2 per spirit and scales by 1 every 2 levels.
Level 5 is 4 hits; Level 10 will be 6 hits; Level 11 will be 7 hits; Level 15 will be 9 hits and level 17 (assuming they ever add theurge/invo gems) will be 10 hits.
wiz 3 quickcast attribute increases your damage by 50% on top of cast time reduction of 50%. as far as single target goes, this would be far more damage increase than pyro 1/2 by the time you get warlock. pyro 1/linker 2 would give you more aoe with JP increased count and would allow you to have fireball link to boss if there is no trap/minions spawned.
overall, it is up to you. wiz 3 path is a harder to lvl early path than pyro but later ranks wiz 3 quickcast might greatly outdps pyro1/2 in the build.
About pyro I know itās not worth it, my main question is about getting Linker 2 instead of Wiz 3, and does QC affects the summoned cardās atk or only the warlock skills?
So I broke my hand yesterday and will have some problems to answer so many questions, Iām doing missions and will try to answer everything after I finish them.
Frost Cloud gets 3 (100% att *50% qc) damage per INT, TS gets 4 (5 at 15).
Familiar does more damage than Hail. Less CD+ easy to aim+warlocks dark att. Bosses walk out of Hails if you donāt have a proper tanker.
Temple Shooter follows you and donāt need to be casted every time you engage fight. 30 hits every 30 seconds without even using rapid shot.
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In your TS vs Frost Cloud comparison, you are forgetting one very important thing: TS does not scale with any matk or elemental damage, while Frost Cloud does. With the latest item upgrade changes in ktos, there are already 800+ matk rods, and that is also not taking into account that we are currently only at rank 7, while rank 10 (lv 600) is the supposed planned cap, and I can see end game lvl 550+ gear having 2000-3000++ matk. Once again, TS does not scale with that. Things like the cooldown reduction statue from diev, or Pass from chrono will affect Frost Cloud as well, while they do nothing for TS.
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Against bosses, I donāt see how you are doing more damage with 10 bats vs hail. Summon Familiar is great for homing burst, but all it takes is for hail to hit 12+ times (easily done within 5 secs) and it would have done more damage, and this isnāt even taking into account the full duration of the skill (20secs).
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TSās riding skill is not worth taking into consideration if you are just comparing TS to FC. Remember, the time you spend while riding + casting the skill + morph + skill again = time where you are losing your TS autoattack damage every 2 seconds. In that same time the Ele can cast meteor and electrocute as well, without losing hits on FC.
To add on, against bosses, I often find that TS is only doing 1/2 damage against them, sometimes even 1/4, which is a really big penalty when it comes to bossing dps comparisons.
On the other side, in terms of aoe, TSā main advantage is that they are able to hit flying targets while FC doesnāt. In content that contains a large amount of flying monsters, TS has the clear advantage.
I stated in the topic already that Ele 3 is the best path for the Ele 3 DPS wizard, it has the strongest DPS skill in the game and everyone knows it.
I made my build focused on Warlock, Dark Theurge has great scaling but loses most of it DPS potential without links.
Ele 3 is ET meta wizard, nothing beats it there and everyone knows that. I donāt really enjoy the Groundcast spells itself and wanted my character to be good in PvP
INT buffs like Transmit Prana or Swell Brain works wonders for TS and CAN BE STACKED, you only need them up on the time you summon, you can receive any number of transmit pranas and each 250 will add 1k damage to each TS hit. (each hand), hope we see more INT buffs on the future.
Familiar and Summoning are god-tier on PvP. Fmiliar takes damage for me all of the CC as long as their numbers are enough.
no, only for future rank9+
ground spells I donāt think so but I still have no idea of what hits me and what doesnāt, knockback takes you off TS. Ypu casn use summob skills while frozen for example if you are already mounting.
Iād go with superior corone because you donāt always need TS up so you donāt really NEED to reduce your SP pool as itās small enough, Iād sell it to get Aias as I like PvP and GvG. Have a maledoom for summoning use.
Your gear is aweome. Otrava would be meta PvE shield for this build or Ledas for ET probably, Pavaisa is fine enough though.
I will eventualy get the archmage bangle but itās not a must.
Updated the build skill distribution and made a proper build name and description and turned it into Public Build so less people go with bad builds and need to re-roll.
Is it true that Templeshooter kills donāt trigger Invocation? If it is that is a hell of a letdown for me :S Do you have any info on this?
As far as I know it doesnāt count on invocation.
My thoughts on this is I will only get Invocation if this gets fixed, I think Warlock will have enough places to spend his points and you probably wonāt ble able to have both Theurge an Invocation at 15.
Most likely Ele 3 will have Invocation level 15 and this build will go with Theurge 15 Inv 5 for attribute.
hello i am interested in playing warlock but dont know much about these classā¦i have questions
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seeing the nerf coming from ktos which is nerf pvp on kinos and dmg on wlā¦is the wiz3 > kino3 > wl still viable?
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wiz3 > ele3 > wl has the best output dmg compared to other warlock build?
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whats the sinergy betwen linker 1, sorc2, and wl? i heard that link c1 is pretty badā¦
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is wiz3 is really good for wl?
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is it possible to build wl with focus more on pyro or cryo? maybe pyro 3 link2 wl or wiz3 cryo2 rc wl? if its possibleā¦can you explain a little bit the pros and cons compared to your build?
thanks!!
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Yes, it is viable, not as good as before but it was too good to be honest, Warlock is still the best PvP wiz nuke.
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Yes, but only on PvE and against non-flying mobs. Perfect for Earth Tower. Very bad at PvP.
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Linker 1 is enough for self-linking. Linking on PvP is pretty good so you donāt waste hits on statues and things like that. Also on 5x5 or GvG itās pretty good since Theurge gives you an huge burst when allied to Familiars. That same burst can nuke Evacās mobs in one go. Familiar, Summoning and Theurge are almost always aimed before you. You can use TS skills while frozen if you are on top of him already, he breaks chaneling spells as he is immune to all CC, his base damage is very high so Defense works very differently for him.
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Yes, +50% magical damage is too much to pass for a 10-rank based game if you are focusing on Warlock (DPS), also it may have some skill with cast time so surespell and qc may be needed, you can take another class who needs those in the future anyway.
Just want to know how much con is needed for pvp build warlock? I know full con wiz3 elem3 warlock with animus is for pvp but is it also viable for full con cryo3 sorc2 warlock build or I really need int to raise my damage since I donāt have 50% additional damage from Quick Cast?
Iād say 20k~25k+ max HP is a good amount for level 280 with final gear in mind.
Cryo 3 makes you benefit much less from INT, going full con doesnāt change much on your summon at level 280 to be honest, but the difference will only grow bigger and bigger.
Full CON is more suited to PvP anyways, Cryo is CC only.
yeah it mainly focuses on pvp, cryo for CC purposes and main dps as always will be the warlock skills and like you said going full con wont change much my summon damage so I was just thinking if I could go full con like the normal wiz3 elem3 warlock builds though the only difference I see when using the warlocks skills will be the 50% additional damage from QCā¦
Iām curious - why wouldnāt there be a big difference if you go pure con vs some con + int for your summons?
For lvl 10 Summoning, doesnāt templeshooter get 4~ atk every 1 int? With 20 bonus points, and 100 points invested into CON, youāll still have around 417~ INT thanks to rank bonus. Thatās 1668 attackā¦how is that not a big change/difference?
Using my lvl 176 Necro as an example, lvl 5 Summoning with 10star templeshooter and 335~ INT, TS has 2447 atk. If I had gone Full CON, I would have 294 less INT, or 882 less attack on TS.
2447 atk (50 pt CON/157 pt INT) vs 1565 atk (full CON).
Or am I missing something here?
Yes, it makes a big difference, but it will still be stronger than Cryoās skills probably.
Iāve stated many times how good INT is for TS damage scaling but we will only really shine after level 400 when we start getting almost 4 int per level. Until then we will barely do double the damage of a full CON TS.
If all my calculations are correct we will have around 2200+ INT at rank 10 level 600. Half of that on CON for those going full CON, it will make TS truly shine.