🦊 [Dragoon C3] Theorycraft Builds Thread

[mrshadowccg]

Also, I made a google sheet based off the new hoplite changes to show the new skill factors.

Very nice sheet.

One thing about Pierce tho: you need Shock debuff to apply +2 extra hits, and it gets +70% damage instead of +50% from Serpentine’s debuff.

I’m personally making Highlander 2 -> Hop3 -> Dragoon 3 so I can cause Shock debuff with Crown at 100% chance and Bleed with Crosscut (with 3x Prison Cutter cards) for an extra +30% dmg.

Most Dragoon skills are 3 true multihits of fake multi.

About your explanation about Dragoon skills being multi-hit, I’ve always felt Serpentine’s attrib had a quite high chance to cause bleeding (but certainly not 100%). If I were to guess, I’d say ~70% chance to bleed with the skill is a reasonable approximation (7 hits with 10% chance each). However this wouldn’t be possible if Serpentine consisted of only 3 true multi-hits (should be 3 * 10% = ~30% chance), unless the attribute also works for fake multi-hits.

It could be an entirely new type of fake multi-hit… But who knows.

[miwou]

dragon soarin buff extendin slashgoon
sw2-barb3-dop1-goon3:
https://tos-kr.neet.tv/skill-planner#1116669fff.233a4a5265.5a6aaab1.1555.11213c4f5a7581

time to ditch those pierce guys. it’s all bout dat slashgoon now
i just hope that 15cd dragon soar is a true multi-hit

[greyhiem]

Dragoon skills are a mix of true and false multihits. And the fake multihits on goon don’t work like most other fake multi.

Most Dragoon skills are 3 true multihits of fake multi.

Usually on a fake multi, when you miss or get blocked, the game will show only one miss or block.

However, on Dragoon, it shows all the miss and blocks for each individual multihit. This is most obvious on Serpentine, which is 3 true multi of 2-3 fake multi each.

Noticed it too.

@miwou No, it is fake.
Tried it, info here

New build is pelt1 - Hop3 - barb1 - drag3

[Revive]

unless I pick cata, is it good?

[miwou]

well, the pros are:
cyclone - which is significant on solmiki runs, as well as general grindings and stuff

+10sec debuffs - complements cyclone’s 11sec spin (puts all hits under all debuffs)

cost-effective rotations - after the first rotation you’ll be able to go serpentine, seism, soar, dethrone once again which are the crucial high dmg skills (all while still under the effects of all the debuffs)

green dragoon - stop this delusion and embrace your true role, support your murmnobi friends and instagib every boss in the game. jk, that doesn’t stop u from doing comparable dmg to doppels

also, u get fast autos during downtime with frenzy while keeping full str
this goes kinda well with 2h spear’s inherently high patk

cons:
no spear lunge (u prbbly don’t need this to cap jump or maybe dethrone? i could be wrong)
low crit rate
no blockrate
no cool 25hit stab
no pierce
no hoplite skills lol

[Nalu1]

Since highlander gives better rotation and crown for the shock combo, I’ll probably try to decide between:
Sw1-Hl2-Hop3-Dragoon3
Sw1-Hl3-Hop2-Dragoon3
Sw1-Hl2-Hop2-Barb1-Dragoon3
Third build depends on how strong the slash debuff will be.

[MelioettaZyguard]

Cata is still very bad. It’s more of a PvP only thing. I can see Catagoon being pretty good in TBL again.

@mrshadowccg
Dragonsoar gives Shock as well with lower cd and more OH too. But highlander is the strongest PvE class anyway as well.

And well, based off probability, it’s not that hard to procc bleed.
Assuming 7 hits: 100 x (1 - 0.9^7) ≈ 52.2% Bleed Chance
Assuming 3 hits: 100 x (1 - 0.9^3) ≈ 27.1% Bleed Chance

Since we know that each individual fake multi of serpentine is displayed, and I do feel like the chance is definitely not as low as 30%, I’m pretty sure the skill counts it as 7 separate hits.
PS. How do you do the quote thing with the person’s name in it?

[_KOEN]

Do you think about SW2-hop1-cata3-dragon3
we can get a bit of stun from sw2, more duation of pain barrier
lunge + 50% dmg on piece from hop1
more mobility from cata3

[ZeroFoxGiven]

lunge + 50% dmg on piece from hop1

Lunge is only available at Hop C2 unfortunately.

[ZeroFoxGiven]

New build is pelt1 - Hop3 - barb1 - drag3

Thanks for sharing @greyhiem. Really interesting how Barb1 is more preferred than Dop1. Is Cleave’s slash debuff really more worth than Dop1’s DoV + Cyclone?

[greyhiem]

It is due to the buff to dragoon. Dragon soar overheat increased to 3.

Dragoon1 dragon soar: +30% damage vs flying type enemies.
Overheat increased to 3 (OLD: 1).

For mobbing, DoV + Cyclone is still fine. It is easier to hit badly~grouped mobs. Dragon soar needs decently grouped mobs.

[Sensate]

man utilizing cross guard autoswitch memes will be amazing with these new dragoon changes. It’s quite possible now to get off at least 3 dps skills with stagger + spear lunge + serpentine debuff still up since dragoontooth and stabbing are much faster now. I would personally go high2>hop3>dragoon3. I hope the helmet stacks multiplicative off debuffs or did someone test that already?

[sorakun]

If you go Pelt1 then you’re locked into 1h spear+shield. You get One-handed Spear Mastery: Medium-sized Hunter from Hoplite but miss out on Two-handed Spear Mastery: Big Game Hunter from Dragoon

Alternatively you could go Sword2 Hop3 Barb1 Dragoon3 and use 2h spear for bossing. You’ll just be squishier

[redwea]

So many variations for dragoon possible depends on your preference. Pelt1 for swashbuckling is great for solo farming, sw2 for pvp, high1 for further pierce debuff, high2 for more skill rotation, barb1 for cleave and doppel1 for another rotation option.

[marvinconman]

I’m pretty sure about my S3/C3 skills, but Dragoon-wise I have no idea what to put points into besides 5 in Gae Bolg and 1 in future helmet. Any advice? (Just PvE)
https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skill-planner#1111777fff.3f4f5f.2f3f658a.3581

[mrshadowccg]

I’m pretty sure about my S3/C3 skills, but Dragoon-wise I have no idea what to put points into besides 5 in Gae Bolg and 1 in future helmet. Any advice? (Just PvE)

I would go for this:

https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skill-planner#1111777fff.3f4a5f85.2f3f658a.1d214f5a7581

You can ditch 5 points from Dragontooth into Gae Bulg, but I’m not a fan of Gae bulg myself (clunky AoE, long cooldown). Dragontooth has a nice AoE depth-wise and with only 1 sec cast time and ignoring 50% of enemy def (with 2h spear) it’s surely worth maxing.

I also changed Concentration lv 15 -> lv 10 to get Double Slash lv 5.

[marvinconman]

So it’s not worth getting Gae Bulg lv5 for attributes?

[mrshadowccg]

So it’s not worth getting Gae Bulg lv5 for attributes?

It’s not bad, I just don’t quite like it myself. 8% more atk is about the same as Gung Ho lv 15 if you have ~5k base atk. Gung Ho lv 15 gives around ~400 atk on full STR build and 8% of ~5k is 400 atk as well.

Sure it’s nice to have 400 more atk, but Gung Ho stays with you all time while Gae Bulg makes an immobile area on the ground, with 30 sec cooldown.

Losing 5 lvls on Dragontooth makes you go from 2223% to 1854% skill factor when wearing the helmet. Considering the 5k atk described above without Gae Bulg and 5400 atk with Gae bulg’s +atk area, that’s 111k and 100k damage, respectively (without applying enemy’s defenses). So in short, the buff doesn’t really make up for the loss of 5 skill levels for dragontooth’s damage itself.

Of course it still applies +400 atk to all other skills, but it’s still immobile in ground with 30 sec cooldown, etc. In the end, it’s just a matter of personal opinion.

On the other hand, not maxing Dragon Soar, for example, is not really up to personal opinion. The skill is too stupidly strong with 3 overheats and double damage now.

[fatedhour]

Updated cata-goon build to include acrobatic mount: (sw2 - peltasta variant)

https://tos-ktest.neet.tv/skill-planner#1113777fff.11234a5a6571.14213545.112c3f4151658a.112c314f5a7581

Still putting 1 point in skills I likely won’t use or are utility skills, so I have more flexibility/playing it safe.

Let’s be fair, this is a fairly significant buff to cata-goon, but will it be good enough so that we can actually compete in TBL? That will remain to be seen once R9 arrives and we can play around with these buffs. Honestly, cata-goon will never be that stupidly good anymore though like we were. Loss of stagger lock from rush, loss of stun lock from restrain, trot nerf in PvP, dethrone no longer 1hko softies etc…

[marvinconman]

I was planning on making a catalancer but I noticed they removed the buff from Initiate…