I’m not here to play guessing games over what IMC’s situation is. That’s not my job. It’s their job as a business to relay that kind of information to their potentially paying customer base. Are they in the red? I don’t know and frankly as a potential customer, I don’t really care. It doesn’t give them a right to bait-and-switch nor to try a cash grab. They could have done it another way, they had options, they simply chose a poor one.
I don’t think I’m a hater by any means. I want IMC to succeed but I also want them to be accountable for what they have done. I don’t think that makes me selfish. I have suggested solutions in the past where appropriate. One of which being a much shorter head start period and cheaper entry packs that don’t force TP on you in order to justify a high price tag.
Am I supposed to feel sympathy for the developers? I don’t even know the whole story, I only know what they have done and it’s super shady. If IMC wants the outrage to stop, they need to communicate. It’s not my business if they are unable to. That’s not my concern as a customer or a user really. People want information, they want answers, they want solutions.
Being nice and sugarcoating your outrage is not going to get any kind of movement. I believe in being constructive, which is why I will always try and list why I am upset, why I feel the community is upset. If I come off as negative well yeah. I am very negative right now. But don’t try and discredit what I say because of how I say it. I never attack any users personally. I may call someone out for baiting, but I don’t believe I am needlessly hostile.
I’m not here to bash IMC. I want them to put out this game. I want to play it, but I want them to be accountable. They want my money so they better show me that they deserve it.
You know if I was joining WoW for the first time and I asked for advice on what server to join. You know what my friends would say? Goto Illidan it’s the oldest high pop server with the best players and organized guilds.
You know what I would say if people wanted advice on what server to roll come June? Join the founder server cause it’s the oldest and has the most organized guilds.
i have a doubt that they’re going to be moving up the release date.
it’ll likely still be in June.
so everyone will likely have to wait till May/early June for release Headstarts then.
that extra time will be used either for another CBT.
or just more polish and such.
Nothing of what you are saying is of any relevance to IMC. Your feelings are hurt and they are fault. And thats it, isn’t it?
Imagine every person on the top of a company as sociopath. They care little for the feelings of their customers. They only care for profit. But since having a neutral/good image is only supportive for increasing money, they will TRY to please the custumors just enough to make them not lose interest in the product. There is NO place for your ideal image of the nice company you want IMC to be nor will you get them to reconsider their actions with anything you are doing here.
Everything you are doing is in vain. In fact its just annyoing other people. A shorter head start? Cheaper price? Considering the plans IMC had, your suggestion is just selfish from the point of view of the customer.
The points I suggested aims to be a win-win-win situation, keeping IMC’s plans of lenght and money considering they probably had a reason to decide that way.
Totally refusing to understand the company you are criticizing makes you unable to create realistic solutions benefiting every party involved - which is, guess what? Selfish. There is no need for symphathy. Its just rational, cold logic.
So, you are saying someone will want to transfer but it shouldn’t be allowed and therefore some will get transfer and some will have to stay and suck with dead server. Good point, very interesting.
IMC (or Steam) just care so much that they actually put everything on hold for you guys. You think they will let something like this happen?
I understand people like free stuff, but I don’t understand why people need to make up something to convince themselves that free stuff is better.
They most certainly care about the customer’s feelings when it impacts the opening and closing of their wallets. I don’t pretend to think that IMC cares about their user base, not really. Money comes first and that’s always been the case. My suggestion is far from selfish. If it gets more people willing to spend money, then how is it selfish?
But the bottom line is, a lot of people aren’t happy with their current solution and IMC knows this. They are actively covering up traces of the Open Beta on their forum and are even taking user feedback into consideration for possible modifications to their flawed solution to whatever problems they have.
If IMC believes that they can cash grab their customers and relies on bait-and-switch tactics to secure money from their user base, guess what? Tree of Savior won’t last more than a year. Customer relations is very important. If they fail to communicate and continue to rely on shady tactics in order to stay afloat, people will leave. iToS has a very passionate community. Had this game not had been tied to Ragnarok Online in any way, I can guarantee you that less people would have stuck around after this mess.
I don’t think that I myself am doing anything to fix the problem, however, collectively, my side of the argument can make a difference. It already has started something. I don’t claim to be the leader but I believe that I am one of many users who have IMC concerned. Money talks and it can just as easily walk if IMC is not careful.
The nice thing about debating on a board is the feature to deconstruct posts and comment every part differently
As I said. Why are you confirming me?
No, you wish them to do. Your expection vs reality is causing your hostility in the first place.
As I wrote before, you are only suggesting from the pov of the customer. Do you think IMC is not smart enough to consider a cheaper price with less lenght to increase the playerbase and as such, the revenue? Do you assume the ones in charge over there are idiots? Not taking their actions so far into consideration of realistic suggestions is at least naive.
IMC lacks a smart public relation agent who actually is allowed to tell the customers about whats really going on, increasing the trust into the company. In fact, they only care about their investors wanting to show them quick results. The only thing left to do for the Staff is to cover up now. This went far from being optimal.
So yet another time. Why should they act so self-destructive? It’s obvious something must have happened between announcing the open beta and yesterday. Something significant, causing the company to throw their initial plan overboard, risking the trust of the customers and causing a sh!tstorm.
Why should they rely on something like that? It’s obvious they didn’t plan to do that in the first place. There are no shady tactics. It just happened, so there must be a reason for it. It might even be a reason you’re able to accept, but they will never tell us why, risking people like you getting unecessarily mad with their actions. I want them to be just honest with us. But giving the communication wall between the customers and the ones in charge, getting solid infos is impossible. Nor is it really needed for the wallets to know more than necessary if they are willing to pay already. Why bother being honest with them, maybe even causing to worsen the situation even more? Thats common business logic. If you got nothing good to say, just say nothing.
IMC is lucky to have such passionate supporters over here, willing to pay whatever they are delivering. Yet the heavy ranting (maybe with the help of steam) caused them to reconsider their original plans, which is more than I expected.
No, you are just annoying the hell out of all the people who are trying be positive with whats happening. Your consistent negative attitude is nothing else than destructive. You are, if anything, just part of a mob wielding forks and torches. Not part of the ones trying to improve the situation by being constructive. And on top of that, you are even discouraging them.
So I’d advise you to stop with this childish bullsh!t if you want to be taken seriously.
Just making sure you understand this going forever. You seem to want to paint IMC as a faceless, cold, uncaring company who does not care for the customer’s feelings when they do if money is involved.
You don’t exactly have the right or the insight to tell me how I feel nor what I expect. I’ll tell you what I expect. I expect a company to care about a customer so long as money is involved.
Again, I’m not here to make assumptions (like you are for… reasons?) about IMC’s financial situation. It’s not an excuse to pull this kind of bait-and-switch and cash grab on customers. There exist other solutions. As of right now, I do assume the ones in charge are idiots. A three month head start with no wipe? The person who made that call is incredibly stupid. That was bound to have a backlash. And look what happened. Backlash.
Again, this is not the customer’s problem. If your company’s solution sucks but it’s for the best (for the company) that doesn’t mean the customers’ need to feel sympathy and deal with this kind of thing. What it means is that the company needs to find a better solution or deal with the backlash. That simple.
As a customer, I have no reason to believe that a company who does shady stuff won’t do it again, especially with no information or reasoning behind why it was done and no promise or assurance that it won’t happen again. Remember? Think of companies as sociopaths? Same should apply to customers. If the company isn’t supposed to care about the customer why would the customer care? All we care about is the bottom line. It was more than you were expecting because you seem to heavily underestimate how passionate the fans are as a whole. Passion is much more than money.
I don’t really care who I annoy. I don’t attack people. I present facts and ask for accountability. I’ve been constructive, I’m proposed ideas, I’ve supported people who have done the same. Many people take me seriously. You aren’t the first person to call me smart on this board. I try and conduct myself in a lettered manner whenever I can. You may not like what I have to say and it may annoy you, but dismissing valid points as childish is not right. Collectively, my side of the argument has been taken seriously to an extent. The side who caused havoc on the forums, the side that tried to propose ideas, the side that went to Steam and flagged Tree of Savior for their bait-and-switch. I appreciate the advice, but I will dismiss it. I will continue to post in the manner that I have been until I receive the answers I seek. If it annoys you, you are free to block me and/or ignore my posts.
You are giving me enough input to read your intentions properly. Add being ignorant, intolerant and dreamy to your account. That’s purely based on what you’re posting.
So what? Going into openbeta causing the company to go bankrupt? If there was a better solution, expect IMC to have used that instead. Calling the executives idiots proves how arrogant and ignorant you are. If you are so gifted and smart, I’d suggest you to become an executive asap to share your magnificent wisedom with all these poor idiots.
Deal with it. Reality is a bitch. I told you before that you don’t need symphathy to be able to actually come up with realistic solutions.
You’re acting as if someone promised you a lolly and hid it right when you tried to grab it, knowing he would never give you the lolly in the first place.
IMC wanted a Openbeta, something happened, now they need place a founders server inbetween. You’re butthurt now, deal with it. If you cant, sux2bu. Thats it.
No, you are just repeating the same again and again. The way IMC hurted your precious feelings with something you can’t agree on morality wise, even if IMC had no real choice. Thats not your business. You won’t forgive. Your butt hurts way too much.
You wont receive anything else than reactions from bugged users. Nothing you’re doing is of any relevance. You are just getting more and more people to be getting annoyed seeing your icon. And thats it.
Is that really worth it? If you wanna change something, just be constructive. Is that too much to ask already? Is the pain too strong?
Just proceed to be useless and destructive wasting your braincapacy for mindless revenge.
Bullshit! Bullshit!
Thx
Ahh @CookyKim I shall summon you to witness this lil spectacle!
You were going strong with your arguments and it was an interesting back and forth, but you got a little too personal. You’ve resorted to unflattering analogies, insults and butt hurt? Really? It was a relative mature conversation until that point.
Yeah I think this dialog hit its climax. I won’t enable this anymore. Happy posting.
Well, I was curious how you would react after dropping the level a bit since your ignorance seems to be limitless~
It’s exhausting to repeat the same arguments again and again just because your opponent doesnt seem to get it (or is willing to get it), continuing to stay on a destructive path full of obstacles - and that unsolicitous!
None of your precious arguments had any relevance to begin with. You were just waffleing repeatedly using the cover of moral as justification for your destructive posts. Thats the bottom line, to use one of your favorite terms
They did not switch to anything because no service is being offered now.
Did they disappoint? Sure. Should you be mad? Maybe. But should be be accusing IMC for doing something that they did not do? No, because that’s lying and misinforming the community.
You’re calling it a cash grab when IMC has not received a penny from the player base. It’s purely out of your conjecture. Stop spewing it around like it is a fact.
Sure IMC has communicated. They asked the community for money. Learn to read between the lines. If they didn’t need the money, why ask for EA in a Beta. Oh because they are plain greedy and don’t need money in the final phase of development (usually the most pressure). Somehow you just have to push your opinion that IMC is an evil, greedy, fraud entity to everyone that comes across your posts.
It’s not a cover up. It’s called removing outdated information to reduce confusion.
it would be insane for a company to come open to their community that they are going broke. Will you buy the EA if you know it won’t even last 3 months as promised? They have NO obligation to inform player base of their financial situation that obligation is towards investors only (arguably not even investors know about company finances most of the time).
They have done nothing but announcing an OBT, then an EA, both of which are not mutually exclusive.
They didn’t meet your expectation, and you go to every thread yelling that IMC is this big evil corporation that care only about profit, that they are greedy, that they are liars (no you are, and I have proof), they have so wronged the community.
You, are not only a liar, but also a hypocrite.
@Rubiss your motive is to cause a havoc in hopes that IMC will revise its EA decision so that you can play the game earlier. Even at the cost of (with your own words) “demonizing” IMC games, with lies, accusations and conjectures.
You are not even a customer yet. I think IMC has been extremely graceful to not have banned you for spreading misinformation, false accusation and negative conjectures all over the place.
Fact is you can’t get scammed without first losing something, you can’t get bait-and-switched when you were offered / received nothing specific in the first place, you can’t accuse IMC for “cash grab” before they even provided a service or received payment for said service.
Accountability for what? Disappointing you or the community? Or for deception? If the latter please provide proof for said deception.
They’re about to receive many many pennies once the Founder Pack thing goes through. A cash grab is a cash grab. Unless they find a different solution and implement, I’ll call it for what it is.
You know the first rule of business? If the customers are buying, its legit. Call it however you want~
8 Dollar for a bucket of popcorn sounds waaaay too expensive? Makes you wanna complain? Makes you wanna shout CASHGRAB!?
People buy it nonetheless, so its legit~
