Tree of Savior Forum

Fix pyro please

Class and Rank Wizard
#102

One objection to longer burn being good trade for base damage. We need a sustained damage that doesnt sit on long cooldown and isnt relliable on a lucky proc. We dont wear plate, spec in vit, we dont selfheal and we cant stand in mele and spam fireballs that do less damage than a enchant fire autoatack. We dont have space for a filler skill, besides autoatack is that.

Without that reliable sustained damage i burn all my skills cooldowns that are worth stopping while being chased by a mob of homicidal demons. Cant stop twice every 10 seconds and if the burn kills SOME of the atackers you still get clawed all the time you stop running by those mobs that didnt get burned by the burn debuf.

Anny upgrade to fireball announced in the next “balancing” patch just announced?

#103

@corvus86 as far i know we get only a enchant fire duration buff? not sure

#104

Lol, why buffing duration of Enchant Fire o_O ? Plus its duration was nerfed long ago and now they want to remove this change 6+ months later ? They really don’t get how to balance a game if it’s the case.

edit: I just saw it’s not only for EF, it’s really good if it’s for Thaumaturge too, but really disapoint me as I didn’t keep Thaum in my build. At least it’s not a ninja patch :>.

#105

yes. fireball has 5 overheat on ktos now with the same cooldown. So at least fireball is more spammable thus making pyro c1 a viable option for builds.

#106

How high was your level at the time? I mean, Agny used to boost fire ball by about +280%, there were huge jumps in HP for monsters between low and high levels (not to mention, joint penalty used to not multiply damage until a random patch hit us somewhere before agny patch)

And you say that I don’t have a concept of honest discussion, but it seems you can do AoE damage with your autoattacks with just enchant fire.

#107

that would get us a 10 fireball attack with duplicate?

#108

yes, but its not a very good representation of what happens in practice.
say you cast 5 fireballs, a mob or something will detonate at least one of them. So in practice, I dont think you can pull off a full 10 duplicate unless you dupe before a boss comes close.

#109

well, there is the fire pillar CC. And if you have other CC in your tree (kino 3 in my case) you can pull it out. I can even swap the monsters to my fireball, or the fireballs to the monster. It’s not really that strong, just sounds fun. If they just would reduce animation delay…

1 Like
#110

maybe you are just weak.

1 Like
#111

How weak is your weapon that an auto attack is better than fireball?

#112

auto attack with enchant fire, sacrament and bless ever do more dmg them fireball…
I think u dont play with a pyro class…

#113

Maybe when your magic attack is low, and have no investment in fireball attributes. Have you played the class into a decent weapon? Also, does your auto attack hit 8+ mobs at once?

#114

Sacrament+Blessing+Enchant Fire alone will do this. Fireball has a decent AoE over autoattack obviously but the scaling on it is ■■■■.

Enchant Fire 15

Fireball 15

Fireball used to be amazing in beta, but right now it’s ■■■■. It’s getting changed eventually to have 5 overheat, but that really won’t make it better at all because it takes too long to cast.

Fireball is literally a 1 or 0 pointer now, most likely 0 because Flare is good, Enchant Fire is good (IF you have an AAer in your party it’s beautiful), you still have a decent amount of things to prioritize here as well, but you’re probably going to choose between EF or Flare build, unless you’re ■■■■ at placing firewalls and don’t want to put in work to learn, in which case you can drop that. Pyro doesn’t have skill points to waste on a ■■■■ skill with ■■■■ scaling.

#115

Again, have you ever played with Fireball on a decent weapon? And with +50 attribute? I farm Kugheri Swords with a Pyro3/Thauma3 build, 2 shot packs with Fireball alone if not swelled. Obviously I would need Flare to get the last hit on a swelled mob, but like I said earlier, with proper investment it’s not a horrible skill. And when they finally give us extra overheats on fireball, I wouldn’t even need flare to finish off those same swelled mobs. And this isn’t even a 2 prac weapon I’m using.

Edit: You’re also not including Agny in your example. Who wouldnt use it on a pyro build?

#116

Sure Agny is great dont get me wrong, but now let’s take a look here:
Adds +50% attack when using the following skills
Fireball, Fire Wall, Flare, Fire Pillar, Hell Breath, Flame Ground, Meteor, Incineration, Prominence

  • Fireball - One time AoE skill that’ll tick that one time on each of them
  • Firewall - Procs multpile times but can be a bit annoying to use
  • Flame ground - Won’t work on flying mobs to proc this
  • Flare - Needs either fireball, or flame ground to proc this, also one time proc of it
  • Fire Pillar - Nice delivery of that damage, but long CD
  • Hell Breath - Nice delivery of that damage, but long CD

You could very well just use flame ground->Flare for it flame ground proccing it every tick, or fireball->Flare and still get it.

Fireball+Agny was INSANE before because Fireball gained another hit every level AND it scaled up damage per level, so going from level 5->6 was like going from 5x damage->6x damage AND the difference in multiplier, it was GREAT sustained damage. Now it’s a one hit, 2OH skill, is it still good with Agny? Sure. Is it as good as it was before? Nowhere near.

Is it as good as Enchant Fire? Usually not.
My PyroLinkerEnchanter isn’t particularly well equipped 2595 MAtk 339 INT
Enchant Fire: +465 +259
That’ll be to each hit and as another instance of proccing blessing.
There’s also the Fire Resistance Debuff it adds on. (Fireball adds Burn though if you take it, so it’s about even)

Fireballs really lost a lot of impact in being able to push them around, link them in towards things, etc

I’d have to attack a few times to equal a fireball sure, with the full enhance attribute that would eb +496%->+546%, with Agny that would be another 50% to +596%. It gets good, don’t get me wrong, but Enchant Fire is better for parties. When you have a much better weapon probably that MATK scaling over INT scaling really comes into play.

Fireball is a good catchall skill still, but such a farcry from where it was before.
Flare is 730%, 830% with Agny+Enhance, 3OH and much longer CD than fireball though.

Really you could go with almost anything in the fireball tree, firewall is probably still the best to proc agny if that’s what you’re looking for, but most people are bad at placing them quick.

#117

I really like my Pyro2 Thauma 3 Wl2, and I use fireball all the time. If the casting and after-cast animations went smoother it’d be a really decent filler given its overheats and low CD, but seriously when we get the 5 OH patch (if cast time hasn’t been changed as well) that’s all pyros will ever do: cast fireballs.

I’ve already gotten over the huge nerf it took, but that cast time still bothers the hell out of me.

2 Likes
#118

Enhance attribute doen’st work this way. It would 496% -> 744% with full attribute.

1 Like
#119

What? Not sure why you are bringing up how good Fireball used to be before the rebalance patch. I thought we were talking about how supposedly Fireball is ultimately weaker than wizard auto attacks? Never did I mention in any of my comments that the current Fireball is superior to the old Fireball. In fact, I agree that mechanically Fireball was a more interesting skill pre-rebalance patch, and would perform better in most scenerios if it remained as it was.

But it’s changed now, it serves a different purpose than before, and for that it performs quite well. Especially with a proper build and investment. That’s the point I’m making.

Sure, when your weapon is trash and your magic attack is less than 2.5k, and your attributes aren’t invested in yet or less than 20%, and you’re only taking pyro to circle 1 or 2 with no support (no linker/Thauma), no Agny, then yeah your fireball is going to seem rather lacking compared to auto attacks being boosted by broken blessings and line damage. But this is true of many skills across all classes/builds. And it’s been hinted at that pardoner shop buffs are going to be changed, likely nerfed, so making this comparison is probably going to be weak or moot later on.

Is it as good as enchant fire? That really depends on where you’re at in the game, what build you’re making and what kind of role you are playing, solo vs party goals, etc… The main thing here is that as you gain more MATK, all of your damage across the board will end up scaling much better than Enchant Fire. Enchant Fire shines best in support builds that party with several auto attackers, or when you’re in the early to mid game as far as your gearing and levels are concerned. EF damage falls off hard as gear and attributes get better on caster/skill spam builds.

My current Fireball is at 645%, which is then boosted to 695% with Agny. On a 9 second cooldown with two overheat (soon to be 5), how is that worse than EF auto attacks?. And I’m not even including the burn damage from the attribute or Chapparition card buff. Even if Chap cards get reduced to only allowing 3 per build with the same effect, Enchant Fire comes no where near the boost in damage that you would get on Fireball or any other Pyro skill from Chap buff.

I would love to see a Wizard auto attack build that can farm 315 mats at a decent speed with little to no investment.

This here is the only real problem Fireball has currently in my opinion. Addressing this would go a long way to making Fireball feel much smoother and perform much better in many aspects.

#120

They could just make some wizard skills work with the Dex to increase animation speed.

#121

Or introduce more sources of additional lines on auto attacks, but still, mobbing with a single hit would be awful if you’re not one to two shotting them.