On cataphract part, i would really like more usage of the mount, not only hp def and evasion, maybe an attack atribute?
waiting for another spear class
How big would it exactly be, according to your suggestion? Could you perhaps make a visual representation of it or something?
The problem is that both Stabbing and Pierce stab dirrectly in front of the character, so they don’t necessarily fit thematically because they are not attacking to the sides, like the Knight/Lord Knight skills did on RO.
However, the Cataphract class which fits more that thematic does have AoE skills which cover more ground on that. So I think that this is already covered by that class.
So level 15 = 15 hits of Catar Stroke. I will add this suggestion to the list.
I also think that charged skills give more freedom to Swordsman to deal more damage, as it is the same concept using with Wizards that have a casting time before dealing damage. Problem is that it is more difficult to execute as a melee character because they have to be at close range for it to work and most likely will take a lot of damage while charging.
But I do think there is value to increasing the number of hits on skills like Cartar Stroke.
Well, the idea is to make Highlander a better option for other builds too. That is why I also included Sword/Rapier/Spear+Dagger, as it gives another incentive for those higher ranked classes to pick Highlander on their builds.
I will add it to the list too!
All we can do is try! Thank you for your post.
This isn’t that much of a problem at higher levels. So I assume you would put the less cooldown/more skills at lower ranks?
Do you think it would be good to have a 0 CD skill option on both Peltasta and Highlander?
Or would it be better to have a way to increase auto-attack attack speed + damage (perhaps changing Concentrate to do that) since the first rank?
Would you increase the AoE Ratio naturally as a Swordsman character (I mean as it’s base value) or do it through skills? If so, what would be an appropriate number in your opinion?
And lastly, for hitboxes. Increase all of them? Or just a few particular skills? Which ones do you think would be best for this?
I will add this to the list. Since it is pretty big, I will just link the entire post on there.
You mean like a gap closer?
What if the debuff time simply got increased? Maybe 10~15 seconds?
I added your other suggestions to the list.
And you did, thanks! I added them to the list.
That is very interesting.
But at the same time, I think that it doesn’t fit the “thematic” of every Swordsman class. So I don’t think that every class might be able to do something like this.
I am thinking that skills like Earth Wave, Katon no Jutsu and maybe Seism could fit into this theme.
What skills do you have in mind?
And about introducing new ones: To what classes would you give them to?
You mean for the mount to attack with you, or for it to passively increase your Physical Attack?
We will get Lancer!
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It isn’t much of a problem higher level because higher level swordman isn’t the one doing the hitting, or they can’t do the hitting. So it is just hidden but still there, but I won’t delve too deep into that, too many have spoken.
Peltasta is actually a fine DPS with skills (low damage of course) with 2x overheat at 12s, could use some better mechanic though.
Highlander needs the 0s cd skyliner, or at least 7s cd 5x overheat like archer twin arrow. Can up the mana a bit if needed.
Concentrate needs changing for sure, more hits is the best, buffing concentrate is more of a chore than a buff.
About AoE ratio, I feel like adding 2-3 to base value is reasonable, because of many swordman classes I play, only hoplite hit as many as I like it (finestra +3 AoE ratio)
Hit box, hmm … Generally I feel the hit box of all swordman skills should be increased (maybe except earth wave, that’s the only one I feel satisfy with). The hit box of swordman skills are not only small, but also in weird shape (like literally weird shape), taking a few examples:
- Hoplite stabbing is wider, but reach less than an auto attack
- Cataphract doom spike reach further, but is narrower than an auto attack
- Peltasta umbo blow reach all around you, but the radius is less than an auto attack.
- I don’t play much barbarian, but last time I remember it, cleave also have lower reach than an auto attack.
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[Quote]How big would it exactly be, according to your suggestion? Could you perhaps make a visual representation of it or something?
The problem is that both Stabbing and Pierce stab dirrectly
in front of the character, so they don’t necessarily fit thematically
because they are not attacking to the sides, like the Knight/Lord Knight
skills did on RO.
However, the Cataphract class which fits more that thematic does have
AoE skills which cover more ground on that. So I think that this is
already covered by that class.[/quote]
Both skills in a situational scenario are meant to be used for CC (Stabbing = 15-20 hits & Pierce = 2 hits for medium / 3 hits for large). What i meant for both skills it doesn’t need to have a much wider range but rather a cone shape like this sample below.
X < |
Range should be always equal to the reach of the weapon of the characters current weapon and since spears have the longest reach on the game then it should be utilized by the game mechanic as well. With the middle of < dealing 100% of the damage and behind | dealing less damage. Also including the sides < dealing less damage also. Often times than not this is not the case and as most of the guys have said here that it mostly plays with your positioning of your character and mobs. For stabbing since you need to be stuck in position for at least 4-5 seconds.
Both skills are Physical and Pierce and with that in mind shouldn’t it be that it affects also the one behind regardless if the mobs are still alive or not.
X < ||
If thematically for the class then IMC should have removed the Pierce in the description of the skill itself, which i would doubt they will do cause this will severely impact this class circle.
Let me know if this clarifies for you or if you would still need screenshots if ever.
Is this confirmed? i’m cringing here in excitement XDDDD
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I’d say every route you take should have access to 1-2 of them. Im a barb, doppel shinobi so if we do seism, katon and cyclone ( create an actual freaking cyclone like zoro in one piece for example ), I’d have access to 3 of such effects.
Id say cart wheel from highlander possibly or remove skyliner’s increased damage after bleed and make it open a dimensional rift cause you slashed the mob so hard that sucks nearby mobs in and deals damage.
Then you could have spear throw with a much higher cooldown that instead rains spears on an area. From a limited range though.
Fencer could be unique and have the skills that increase dodge instead create after-images that stay on the cell fencer cast the skill from for 3 seconds and take all the aggro and hate onto then instantly, meaning a fencer could use it, move around hit from the back rinse and repeat. Active dodging while not stopping to tank.
The only reason fletcher is the king of world bosses is because he can spam his skills while bleed, magic arrow and sapers traps deal damage on their own and just need to be recast on cooldown. I say lets have a level field.
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Wow dood that’s a completely beautiful overhall and I sincerely think everything in what you just written there is enough to fill Circles 1 - 3 of shinobi should there be more circles
I sincerely think you should be skill director for all class overhau;s if you think you’re up for it
but sadly it seems IMC has no intention right now to vastly expand their manpower -__-
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@Cathexis Well since I said my piece here are my suggestions quick easy and simple
Corsair
Jolly Roger should have an provoke on the same level as swashbuckling. This will solve the DPS vs Tank issue. Pelt offers nothing to DPS, but one circle of cor does add something to the DPS aspect at least. Immunity attribute should be %50.
Combo should add atk, def, and Res in large amounts. This will also strengthen Sword Tanking at the same time. Currently the “Lure” function of Jolly roger is buggy, does not work sometimes, and is weak, a 1 damage hit from pet can strip mobs off it.
Jolly Roger should offer an attribute static bonus to -%Magic Damage Taken, this should be toggled and when ON the area of affect of should be halved.
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Well passively increasing the attack would be great, anything that ups the dps would be greatly wanted.
Didnt know lancer was confirmed 
I would love to dude…
I’ll quit my fvcking job right away if IMC will hire me hahahahahaha! 
They will in the future 
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Gung Ho and Concentrate are working in the same role, competing each other. I don’t think we need two buffs that do the same thing, add attack.
In my opinion, Concentrate need be reworked. Maybe change it to add Accuracy and Evasion. In many games that I played Concentration ability give Hit Rate effect, so add accuracy make sense for me.
I think Concentration add evason (in a scalar way) is important, so the buff will be good for STR and AGI builds as well.
This change can make Concentration OP?
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We have a bunch of pretty good suggestions for Sky Liner so far, yours seem to align well with those too. That is good, seems like overall people agree with a change to this particular skill.
I will add these suggestions to the list.
Thank you for your post!
Yeah, I think that overall Bleeding is too weak. For the apply ratio, some mobs can’t bleed, I assume you are talking about that?
This is good enough, I will add it to the list. Thanks!
That would certainly make Swordsman more interesting. Depends on whether or not they want to take this path with the game though, perhaps they want to keep it to pure physical type of skills.
I will add both of your posts to the list though. Thanks!
That is a bunch of extra utility added to Jolly Roger. It would be too strong if all of them were implemented, or they would need to be balanced out on other classes so that Corsair isn’t as dominant.
For example, if both Barbarian and Corsair get the taunt on War Cry and Jolly Roger, then it would balance it out a little bit. Same would have to be applied to other classes.
I will add these to the list. Thanks!
Alright, I will add it to the list!
Yeah that has been a popoular opinion on the thread so far: A complete change to Concentrate based on the justification that Gung Ho is already giving damage and thus they are redundant.
I am not too sure about Evasion, but Accuracy certainly would fit the “theme”, or well, at least the name of it.
What if it were to increase Attack Speed with auto-attacks and perhaps Accuracy?
I have read all suggestions to all classes that I played and I must say that…this doesnt change a thing in the game.
Proposed changes are still not fixing the problem that is visible from 10 km. Game need big revamp and decision of “what for given classes exist at all”.
The game need passive attributes for each class, giving it weight in the role you take. Each class should matter in your build and it should give you visible boost in given field of the class.
Good example is highlander 2 handed critical damage (made in crappy way anyway, but you get the point).
Every class should give you 3 additional passive attributes, 1 on each tier of the class (C1,C2,C3), examples:
- Highlander:
*5% - 25% increased total critical damage when using 2 handed weapons (5 levels)
*2% - 20% more damage when using 2 handed weapons (10 levels)
*2% - 20% more HP ( 10 levels)
-Paltesta:
*10% - 30% more defense from a shield (3 levels)
*1% - 5% more chance to block when using a shield ( 5 levels)
*2% - 20% more defense from plate armor (10 levels)
-Dopplesoender:
*2% - 20% more damage when using 2 handed swords ( 10 levels)
*2% - 4% increased damage when taking damage for 10 seconds, stack 5 times (3 levels)
*3%-15% increased attack speed when using 2 handed swords (5 levels)
-Corsair:
*2% - 20% more damage when dual wielding ( 10 levels)
*5% - 20% chance to do additional attack with any attack/skill hit (4 levels)
*10%-30% more drops and gold (3 levels)
-Squire:
*5%-50% less durability loss for you and your party members (10 levels)
*1%-5% increased all base stats for you and your party members (3 levels)
*10%-50% of your defense value is added to party members with less than 20% of MAX HP (5 levels)
Additionaly to that, every existing skill need proper scaling including scaling to their special effects, otherwise they will turn to obsolete really fast. Example:
Cartor strike:
Charge duration - 3 seconds on all levels
Base damage: 100% per hit(you dont even need the +x damage in skills) +5% per level
Number of hits : 3 + 1 per 5 levels
Overcharge : 2
Aoe increase by 3% per level
(Role : high burst damage, high aoe but slow and hard to output skill)
Stomping kick:
Base damage: 140% +5% per level
Number of hits : 1
Overcharge : 2
Bonus effect : 100% +30% per level of boots evasion value added to damage
(Role : low weapon damage but high bonus boots damage if you gear under the skill)
Zornhau:
Base damage : 500% +50% per level
Number of hits :1
Overcharge : 1
Bonus effect : Can hit only single target
Bonus effect 2 : Increase damage of next Zucken by 100% +10% per level
(Role : High burst single target skill, boost zucken, simply a skill for single powerfull enemy)
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Implemented maxed out Cor1 would definitely be over powered. Nor do all need to be implemented or to such a degree. Any of these would make a cor1 very desirable for a party and still makes a DPS build viable, a lot more so than Having to take Pelt. The reasoning behind Cor is the function of Jolly Roger and it’s Flag. The Flag allows the taunt to be directed AWAY from the swordman, thus 0 con DPS builds can drop a flag and position themselves To the REAR of their targets to get the attribute bonus from cor.
Jolly Roger could scale at 2 targets taunted per level so at lvl 5 you have a max of 10 and then 1 per every 5 levels after that.
The current bonus of combo are… crap really don’t matter its not like parties care about it enough to go out of the way for it. Make them large to incentives parties going for the bonus. In reality if cor offered a heavy support aspect swords would then have a third route independent of DPS, fair or no it is an easy option to implement to take care of sword for right NOW. Cor would be like the Brd of EQ/FFXI, not power house DPS or Tank but worth bringing along.
Also Immunity as a party wide buff at 50% makes it a viable defense, but still means if you Leroy Jenkins you will likely get dead. It can also scale at 1% per attribute for each level of the Skill thus need cor3 to get the full 50%
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I think that making Cross guard (Highlander Parry) avaiable for 2H Spears, will help a LOT. Then what about make finestra avaiable for any weapon?
I just want rapiers to not have the durability of a toothpick.
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Below are just my opinion on the suggested changes
swordman - i agree with most of the suggestions, though i think the concentrate attribute give too much extra attack charge at the suggested value
just thinking sw c3- cata c3- end game class(r7+) with decent spr (for CC resist and block pen) would be almost unstoppable at that rate 
(not really a big problem since they will probably kinda squishy if the go offensive route, but tanky route will become kinda anti-CC )
note: i’m not sure they fixed double slash description(aoe ratio) in-game yet, too lazy to complain at bug section
i think this skill should be the main component from peltesta, the current design is a disappointment (then again that is just my prerogative )
i dunno whether the peltasta ability to tank magic is intentionally made to be poor or not, but adding magic def to the equation may give an incentive to increase this skill
other possible change would be by making this skill to reduce dmg received instead
if not, i think better % gain and less flat gain since priest aspersion greatly overshadowed this skill at the current suggestion
not really agreeing with this one, but making this skill c3 would also be fine
my suggestion of the skill rework (compared to the original/current) would be:
- more block/level, may reduce block bonus at lv 1
- reduced movement speed should be alright, may include bonus resistance to knockback / knockdown
- all ‘damaging shield skills’ get better damage (compared to current design), either by nullify the penalty from them or assigning bonus damage
- can shield ally close to the caster (like pavise)
i don’t include number since i’m fine with either this skill become c2 or c3 skill
peltasta - i agree peltasta need to be buffed (either by more damage or more tanking capability) especially c2 and c3, currently the c1 give out so many utility thus making c2 and c3 kinda underwhelming
highlander - i don’t really know much of highlander build, but i believe it should be buffed/nerfed to be balanced with the other r2 class, if the other got major change
barbarian - i think this class is mostly fine, proposed changed are ok, kinda hoping they swap some skills between circle but it’s also fine at current design.
hoplite - i think the suggested changes are fine, but the values could be reduced or better paced(increase/level) as currently hoplite is already strong for early game
cata - i agree impaler need to be given a reason to level, steed charge at the moment is simply bad, suggestion would be increase of level would increase the distance traveled and add an attribute that will drag the enemies (or maybe only the first enemy it hit) instead of just knockdown. the increase in distance would make this bothersome to use in pve, but giving it another interesting skill when it used on pvp (and it fit the charging cavalry for me )
i think its fine for cata to lack damage since it’s main point is having mobility (and extra defensive stat from companion)
rodelero - i think first thing they need to do is making up their mind if this class is a defense oriented (as currently suggested by the blue emblem) or offense oriented (change to red emblem) as currently the class skill is offense oriented and/or the CC is quite underwhelming, please make some synergy available (then again this will probably take time and couldn’t quickly implemented) for this class is recommended since its currently very boring to play in most scenario
squire -
MT skills need better scaling (weapon & armor mt), but not as high as what you suggest
weapon mt : 75% weapon attack even without flat is way overkill, 15% or 30% on lv15 plus current flat is already enough even considering lv400+ gear)
armor mt : at least it need 0.5 def for every (star x skill level), may need percentage for lv300+ gear
penalty red : i don’t think current skill works, squire does need a C3 skill but i have no idea what to suggest
base camp/refreshment table : i don’t agree with ability to sell refreshment table food since it reduce the need to include a squire on a party but i really hope they decrease the cost to make the basecamp and refreshment table (increasing the food ingr price is ok) or fixed the basecamp buff which suppose to increase buff duration (i’m not sure about other class buff, but tested that food buff didn’t receive any bonus from basecamp)
current pricing is really bad if you aren’t planing a long grinding session
corsair - agreed with your opinions, i especially want a better scaling for jolly roger
rest of class i’ll reserve my judgement since the class is not yet complete… but i agree that most of the offensive swordman class need better scaling comparative to other DPS class, its true that swordie have 3x hp, but the damage comparison is very crude making DPS swordman class obsolate in competitive environment
in general (not only swordman tree), i do hope they give better skill description and patchnote / changelog (instead of ‘ninja’ patch we sometime don’t even know/notice).
rants: i still think templar should be a hidden rank instead a real one… i was thinking about hidden class templar for each class tree that have 3 common skill, and an unique skill (differ for each base class)
summon member/tower and improve craft time would be the common skill, while swd/arc/wiz/cle having str/dex/int/spr aura (similar to current templar’s design)
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Yeah, the game has a lot of problems to fix overall, but this isn’t really about completely fixing every problem regarding the Swordsman class. It is about small/quick changes they can make to improve each class and circle while a better overhaul comes in the future which could take months of waiting for us.
This would be a more interesting change but it would apply to every class in the game, not just Swordsman, so it is a more complex solution that requires more time to craft and properly implement / balance out.
These are the quick modifications they can make to make each class/circle feel more meaningful for the moment.
Thank you for your post!
I think the flag should have HP or a drawback if that is the case. Otherwise it is a free tank with no penalty at all. At least the Peltasta has to directly receive the damage of the oppoonents, which makes it a fair trade.
I think the combo would be alright if it added 1~2% extra total damage per level. It would make it a great utility skill for the entire party
50% is way too strong in my opinion. A lower value would be more balanced.
But yeah, the ideas in essence are the important part, the values can always be tweaked around to balance them out.
I wouldn’t mind, but it would probably become too dominant on the choices for builds. You would suddenly see Fencer builds taking it too, as well as Doppelsoelder builds that can still use a 2H Sword because they have the attribute to do so.
Perhaps with a weaker version of Finestra and adding other compensating benefits to the Hoplite could make it work. But that is a little more of extra work to think about.
Well, the idea is that there are still class interactions to take into consideration. Just because Aspersion is stronger doesn’t mean Guardian should be too, as they both can co-exist on the same character and it would make the end result too strong.
We would need to know if the current state of Magical Damage vs Magical Resistance in the game is intentional or not like you said, but if it isn’t then it would be another good way to improve the Peltasta class.
Yeah, I agree. I changed the values to 2% per level, which would be 30% at level 15. If it is still too strong it can always be lowered to 1% per level and 15% at max.
The idea is that food from the camp is still stronger than the one from the shop, adding a better incentive to still do it through the traditional way (especially on pre-made groups), but not depending on it for the rest of the people.
What do you think the pricing should be to make it better overall for the food?
The first chance i would do would be moving swash buckling from peltasta to swordman c1. I mean, clerics are the only healing capable class and they start with this ability, if sowordmans are sworn to be tanks they should do it from start too. No one should be punished for not getting peltasta. All skills should scale in % and this is for all the classes not just swordman. The “blue classes” should have more skills to reduce damage taken like paladins resist elements at least as a short secondary effect. And lastly swordmans need movement reducing skills and CC breaking too. At least breaking free from CC that are not from a Magic source.