I agree with many suggestions and disagree with many too. I’ll not comment each suggestion, but I miss more damage and charges for Doppel C2 skills too.
Please don’t nerf finestra, its pretty much the reason to go for Hoplite. Pierce ends up weak later on, stabbing has the hitbox of a shot needle and if you use it without the pain barrier, odds are that you’ll get knocked down or back and its a half minute wait to use it again. Also, spear toss has a terrible long animation.
That is great!
That…not so much.
It would be amazing if you could expand a little more on this. We need everyone to give their thoughts on this conversation. We need more input from more people to reach a better understanding of each class and how we can improve them.
Can’t really work without knowing which ones you agree or disagree with. Or maybe you have other ideas that could be better overall.
Only you know the experience you have had with the Swordsman tree and I believe that is valuable information that we all can use to craft better feedback for IMC to improve the game.
Even if you only comment on how to improve Doppel C2, that would help a lot already.
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If another Corsair doesn’t do it first, I’ll post you a screenshot tomorrow during my daily grind. It’s bothersome but I don’t believe it takes up actual buffs, you just can’t view what you’re actually buffed with from other party members.
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As you wish \o
I agree with your suggestions for Doppel and Dragoon. Don’t have much experience with others to comment.
For Highlander, I prefer one more charge for Moulinet (current a better skill than Zornhau and Zucken), Sky Liner with less cooldown (without a penalty) and don’t agree about Cross Guard.
I think would be better if 2H weapons have a defensive stance when you press “C” key.
Instead of CG would be great if we have a new kind of buff or a new aggro skill (not better than Swash Buckling).
Edit: oh, I almost forgot. Vertical Slash needs an urgent increase base damage. As you know, the bonus damage is about +10% for each debuff. Increase this bonus would be not a good idea, but if the skill had a good damage like Seism… Not exactly 1700, but 1200~1500.
And for Corsair, I miss a fix in Jolly Roger increase damage and a new feature: Corsairs would be always the party leader in random (queue) parties. Just for the stacks.
I would remove “Unlock Chest” skill and “Obtain Chest Item” attribute. Instead of them I would create a new attribute which will allow you to open every chest with no need to have a key (max attribute lvl 5), and a new offensive skill.
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I’ve already saw about 4 bugs in JR 
. IMC senpai, notice us.
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I hope swordsman get some hp drain skill. Swordman too much downtime when solo and party without healer.
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Here are my thoughts. I’m a 277 Sw1/Pel1/Hop3/Dop1/Drg1 swordsman. I run all content besides Earth Tower daily. I have two semi-statics I run with. Either as filler tank or DPS. I only do PVE on this character.
My overall impressions of Swordsman is that its a very skill intensive class with a very high degree of risk and many drawbacks while at the same time does not feel rewarding enough. I’ll remain play my Swordsman with hopes of changes and fixes but its very irritating.
Swordie c1
Gung Ho:
Only remains useful until around rank3. With Finestra, Conc, Deeds, Pain Barrier. We need to many buffs to be at our full potential and the SP cost and short duration is very annoying. In the end isn’t worth it. If they want to keep it weak, I think its duration should be increased, its penalty removed. 4/10
Concetrate:
Although better at later levels than GuHo its still very weak. Every class has skills that remain useful for the duration of the game at rank 1, except for wizard less so. Despite being our second best skill its still not very good. The duration needs to be longer. Either remove the per hit limitation or fuse it together with GungHo. 5/10
Bash: The attribute makes it kinda useful, but not any longer as I can’t solo at this level. Things hit me like a truck and I can’t kill them fast enough. 6/10
Pain Barrier: My favorite swordie skill. It can save my putt and lets me perform attacks without being canceled by knockdown or back. I wish the cooldown was shorter but no complaints other than that. 9/10
Peltasta c1:
Umbo Blow: I only have a shield on when tanking meaning I no longer use it often. Would rather conserve SP for something else. Don’t even remember if I got the attribute for it. 6/10
Rim Bow: I have one level of this and I actually really like it. I can push mobs into AoEs and push them away from squishies when they stick into them. I would never, ever hope to do damage with this but I really love the pushback. 9/10
Swashbuckling: The reason people put ‘LF Pelt’ at shout. It is a good skill and lets me join groups easier. I can’t complain. 10/10
The defense buff completely replaces gung-ho. The evasion attribute is excellent. 9/10
Hoplite: A love story.
I had a blast playing as Hoplite from most of circle 1-3. The nice weapon reach and the strong auto attacks encouraged a very active style of play. Sure you were tough enough to stand there and take hits but zig zaging and poking enemies were a whole lot of fun.
Finestra: Is always on. When I’m tanking, when I’m dpsing and when I’m soloing. Even without a shield it is very worth it. Absolutely no complaints. Its one of the skills I truly consider functional. 10/10
Stabbing: Stabbing is not as powerful as some people claim it to be. Its AoE rating is low, the hitbox is tiny, even with a 10 reach spear. Use it without painbarrier and its likely going to waste. I try to use it with single-two or three targets, preferrably with spear lunge. Remains useful even at rank7 this way. 8/10
Pierce: Before rank 6, it was the other skill you used when Stabbing was on cooldown. Its practically useless against small and decent against large and bosses. The bleeding attribute enhances its purpose as rotation filler later in the game. 6/10
Spear Lunge: The debuff is extremely useful and will remain so. Bosses tend to resist it, which is fine but can be annoying. I only took one rank of it for the debuff. It’s easily in my top 3 of Hoplite.
Spear Toss: Was extremely nice at c3. However at rank 7 it practically goes unused. The animation takes forever and combined with the low cooldown of dragoon skills, it is quite taxing SP wise. At least I can throw it at my feet without needing to pick it up again. 6/10
Dopple was great until 220+ started but I think at C1 is a great class.
Deeds of valor: Great skill if you got a healer or can avoid most damage. However, if you have quick weapon switch you’ll realize the attack speed portion of the buff doesn’t work. Meaning you need to switch back and forth to acquire it. The skill isn’t working as intended.
Cyclone: Still love it. Still use it. I heard it only applies to level 3 of the skill meaning its missing out on duration and damage. Only reason I cannot consider it perfect.
Double pay Earn: I use it and abuse it. Letting enemies be killed by party while the buff is active is great. They’ll probably fix though. 8/10
Mord: Hate this skill. Damage only good against cloth and the knock down is almost a homerun. I’d rather put more points into DPE instead. 3/10
Dragoon: The end of the road.
All Dragoon skills are good, powerful and have short cooldowns. I cannot comment on ‘Gey Bulge’ because I haven’t taken it. My complaint with Dragoon is that its very SP intensive otherwise it fixes some of the previous shortcomings of the other classes.
I’d just give the non centrifuge skills more reach. Otherwise no complaints other than it needs to deal as much damage as other rank 7 classes.
This is my skill lowdown of my Swordsman path. Next time I’ll voice my overall opinions.
Please read this thread IMC!
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Another change id like is more of an overhaul change to every class
Atm currently the only class that really has “combos” is swordsman. and the combos dont exactly put swordsman on par with the others in the game. i mean sure +150% damage is nice but when you have classes that regularly give 50% or 250% damage off scaling, it kind of makes it ehhh…
but not every skill in the game scales and i feel this can be worked around by making it so every skill scales in some way . that way it gives each and every skill uniqueness and personality, and it doesnt become that skill you replace once you hit a higher rank on the class. every skill in the game more or less suffers from this, to the point that using some skills from rank 1 or 2 to any branch in the endgame justl looks pathetic.
These changes are perfect. Honestly, there is just no other way to put it.
I just hope the GM’s pay attention.
I am not trying to come across as dismissive or argumentative, however at this moment the entire swordman system needs an overhaul before tweaking the smaller variables.
Major points that can be agreed upon, by the majority if not the super majority.
- Sword Damage is very low compared to other classes, even the best DPS builds can not come close to Archer/Wiz but for a short burst.
- Resistance and Def scale horribly be it through traits, gear, or otherwise.
- There is only one active taunt making Pel the only option should you want an active taunt.
- There are a ton of issues throughout all classes that cause skills to bug/not work properly or as described
- Movement + Lag kill DPS and Tanking for sword since we are melee, thus in range of damage and out of rangeof attacks should targets move
So while the time for skill analysis might come, probably not soon, there are simple quick fixes. Even if these fixes cause some imbalance or are not sufficient it would be better than the status quo.
It would be easy and balanced to roll out an increase in all stats and gear tailored to Sword of 5% every patch for 4 patches ( 4 weeks basically) then an additional 5% every month until satisfied.
Sure you would have whiners but they would be the minority, because even a 20% increase for sword would not be sufficient DPS wise, and tanking wise it simply benefits other classes. so a slow and steady increase to find equilibrium and then a look at skills. Its just a cart before the horse thing.
tl:dr tweaking skills when sword as a whole needs an overhaul is a waste.
Aside:
I don’t like the idea at this low of a level incentivising circle 3, is not a good idea, sure at lvl 600 but not now. The allure of this game is the variety offered in a mix of circles from different jobs. Hop over to the wiz section lot of complaints about being forced to go wiz3 ele3. I would drop the game Even if they gave free circle reset if it meant I HAD to go sword 3 hop3 for DPS or Sword3 Rod3 for Tanking, right now builds for both dps and tanking are close enough that there are many viable builds for top tier performance not just 1.
Just an FYI on your Stabbing comment: skill hitboxes seem to be independent of weapon attack range, so only your autoattacks benefit from a spear’s greater reach.
Because if I quote every single change you do in this topic, it’ll stretch this page into straight taffy, I’ll just put my inputs with quotes.
Yeah. These skills are in dire need to have scaling, as they fall off meanwhile other classes get scaling buffs to their damage early on. To be honest, I’ve always liked the idea of Gung-Ho having a second attribute whereas it allowed light vamparism and heal a fraction based on damage dealt, but that may turn out broken.
Ehh. I’m not honestly sure about having 100% uptime, even with it being a C3 requirement to do so. I could see this romping PvP and anything that isn’t a hard status effect may not stop a Swordie from jumping at them and tearing them asunder. I do like the addition of that attribute though, which to me has better usage in PvE.
Sure. Basically applies the same as Gung-Ho and Concentrate, you only ever use it for the Evasion attribute. Now you have a point to add it in.
Reason being because they didn’t want to give mobile swordsmen this ability as well, I’d say. Granted one could work it into a Fencer’s build, but it may be a little broken to things like Cata. I do want to see it happen though, just not with spears I feel. Spears shouldn’t be able to block that well!
Hoo boy. There is so much you could do with Skyliner. Imo, I’d like it if Sky Liner scaled with debuffs, and magnified more with it considering Highlander has great access to CC skills. Especially since Armor Break and Bleeding would already do this, but it’d become a threat. But I’d say this is acceptable too. Honestly, this skill is finicky because there are different ways of making it good, but not broken.
I’m a little sad, I honestly believed that Highlander could actually smash the Earth and create terrain and walls. I thought that would be it’s identity.
~Skipping Barbs because they don’t need much aside QoL Chances~
I’m all for it. Stabbing needs to be able to pivot and not bug out during a lag spike, but Pierce needs attention as it’s a fairly mediocre 30 second cooldown burst skill. When it crits, it becomes meh instead of bad.
Onto~~
Whenever I see builds with Unlock Chest I cry. It’s not even working as intended, it’s a point sink that doesn’t even work properly. It desperately needs a new skill, something worth while like a passive skill of sorts.
I also want Dust Devil to have an attribute that’d extend the stun/spin duration longer or some kind of frame that allows you to dodge stuff like Fencer’s Flaconnade I believe it’s called. While it’s a nice skill to have in the middle of mobs, I just find it somewhat lack luster against bosses.
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I think that is almost impossible as long as swordsman being the most popular class.
The most popular class means nerf, otherwise the most unpopular class will get buffed , thats the Logic of Online Game.
The purpose is not to balance the classes, but to balance the number of players playing classes.
That is dumb. That is super dumb… Class Balance is about, Class Balance, not making unpopular things popular. If you design like that you end up without overpowered nonsense characters.
Not to mention swordsman is highly unpopular. The only reason you see so many is they are good early game and bots. Look at the PVP rankings. Look at the discrimination builds without swashbuckling get.
The fact we are replaceable by Clerics, Archers and Wizards for DPS roles…
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Its only because wearing big Sword and close combat has always been more appealing to the masses than other things, that being said its the same in every MMO and you wont see scaling problem as we have here in EVERY MMO.
Its most of the time the opposite where Sword / Gladiator tends to be utterly OP on most MMO’s cuz its a (bad) way to expand the life of a MMO by giving candys to the masses.
You can spam “Punish” how? I can only use it once and it went on cooldown.
Why don’t you actually learn to read the entire discussion.
Maybe 5 % per level? 75% at max.
Archer has one that gives 25%, it also can apply to party members if I’m not wrong. 75% seems fair.
About 86 crit rating to give you 150?
Edit: may even be a bit over the top. 3-4% per level may be enough.