So in the end it is at the very least a few weeks if not months, because this is IMC and not other company.
We can’t really tell because we don’t know the internal structure at IMC so we can assume a lot of things and in the end they wouldn’t matter if that is not how reality is. From what we have seen so far though, is that they are very slow to implement changes though.
Maybe they don’t even have the resources to do so at the moment and the ones that they do have are allocated to other things.
Without knowing the exact details of the company, there is no way for us to really tell how much time it would take. Could it be better/faster? Sure. But that is not up to us.
Hers some easy changes for other classes, however I don’t have much experience with other classes so I have held off till now.
Hoplite perhaps the most balance class in the sword tree right now. Add an attribute (Spartan Training) that adds X% of damage per level up to lvl 50 when a shield is equipped. This would make hop3 more desirable as a stand alone and also reinforce the shield bearer theme of Hoplite.
Cataphract Attribute (Pet attack) add a second line of damage that is pet attack + x%, x can be determined by a formula taking the level of attribute and what ever multiplier would work for balance. Basically an upgradable Arde dagger while mounted, and it stays in line with the theme of Cata.
Shinobi Attribute (Suijin no jutsu) adds a secondary effect to Moktun creating a “water sphere” which gives immunity to damage and CC for x seconds per attribute up to a limit of 1~5 depending for balance.
Attribute (Smoke bomb) after using mijin or katon or both. Adds a debuff aura around the spot used ( The Jolly roger flag mechanics can be used here as an easy solution) The aura gives a sever penalty to Acc and X. X would be some kind of penalty to magic either by an increased casting time or a reduction to the overall magic damage which ever would be easier to implement/ more balanced.
Swordsman Attribute (Equipment Mastery) circle 2+ adds a bonus to all worn equipment of x% per level of attribute.
i have other ideas that are simple can add more when I have more time.
Edit: Got some more time here are a few more.
Dragoon Attribute (Soar) gives an immunity buff for x seconds where x is increased per attribute level after using Y skill, insert what ever skill is most balanced / appropriate. This will allow Goon to get in do damage and not die. It can also be tacked on for multiple skills capping at like 1~3 seconds to allow for skill rotation with out eating to much damage.
Attribute (Fiery Blood) adds x% to damage per attribute level and a weakness to Cold of x%.
Dopel Get rid of DPE as it is, make it an attribute or get rid of the debuff component and increase the number of strikes. If the overall effect is lessened for balance then so be it. In effect this skill is just gimmicky
Attribute (Scything sweep) adds a second line of damage TO Normal Auto Attack that is -x% damage penalty but +X AOE ratio. This will further emphasize the AOE factor of dopple and add to their DPS capability.
Barbarian and Highlander since add in a second line with a different modifier to their skills, for example their skills could have both a pierce and strike component. This will also allow double dipping into buffs alla Cleric cafrisun/arde. The reson for the additional modifier is to take advantage of all the extra damage available thus adding a greater dynamic to these classes. I feel these two classes even more than swordman just fall off later game.
Lol i just write a post myself and i didnt see this post.
I think that the change to gunho and concentrate are a must and help huge to the class.
Im a hop3dragoon and im agree that finestra would be so much better with a +%crit rate and not the flat rate that we have.
Btw nobody have pointed that dragoon skill base damage it is so low that they do less damage than hoplite skills or that they have so looooong animations that yet when many arent channel skills u cant do it tanking or you cant evade skills.
Btw i think that deed of valor could be changed to get stacks when u hit and not when u are hit,this is a dps skill and not tank so it havent sense the actual mechanic,if they want balance it around of hits and dont be hit ok but it is so dumb have to be hit as dps to get this buff
This one is pretty cool, although not sure if it would be easy to implement without too many bugs. Would this extra damage be added to every attack you deal? Is there a drawback?
I think this one is a little bit redundant and would be too strong, because Mokuton already makes you invulnerable…well, it is supposed to, but it just needs to be fixed so that it works properly.
This would be pretty good since it could justify the use of bombs and adds extra utility to the skills.
You mean on their base values? This would apply to every tree too though, to make it fair.
I don’t think we are getting any immunity effects on our skills. But if we were to get one, I think it should be on something that gives you a bigger drawback. It such a highly valued reward for so little risk involved.
I don’t really agree with this one. DPE is a fantastic skill.
Priest have to spend money for their buffs though, so it would be fair to set a drawback for these two if they were to be implemented too.
I think they are unnecessary though, because they only help during early levels and they don’t need help during those stages. Priest buffs don’t really have much use at higher levels as it is better to use the buff slot for other things that do make a difference.
I don’t think they have long animations or lower damage than Hoplite skills.
If you compare a full animation Stabbing, sure, it deals more hits. But Dragoon skills are cast very fast and deal a pretty good amount of damage.
All they need is a better hitbox and overheat.
Well, it is because it fits the theme of “putting yourself at risk to get more damage” of the Doppelsoeldner.
Also, if you were to get the stacks when you attack it would be way too strong. Just look at Frenzy, it has lower increase values and it is limited to auto-attacks, otherwise it would be too strong too and Deeds of Valor has much higher return values on it.
The numbers can be small to avoid the need of additional drawbacks, thus why I put (x) they can work it as IMC deems balanced.
Hop3 as a rank7 since a boost to spear and shield would bring it closser to 2 hand, it can be in any circle really but adjust for balance as IMC sees fit, also promotes swapping when needed for varioys content with less hassle/penalty etc.
Bonud to equipment worn would be base value for equipment and since sword2 it would require sword2, but yes the bonus carries to all worn equipment.
As for the second line of atk, do not discount equipment impact, sure arde sucks later but if the lines take into account main hand stats it will scale equally with main line of attack, the additional modifier being another big component. This opens up lesser used modifiers like “Strike.”
food price are ok (about 4.5k/(30~40) minutes for 4 food buff which is kinda expensive but most people doesn’t take the one for the max sp anyway). But since if you want to give the food buffs you must spend 27k silver(13.5k x 2) for opening the basecamp and food-table, which is pretty expensive when your grind time is only about 1-2 hours (or maybe less), lowering the build cost for refreshment table seems to be the best solution since base camp pricing is pretty fair considering it’s utility, i would suggest either of the following ideas:
Allow refreshment table to be opened without basecamp nearby
Reduce the cost to open food table (to around 5-7k)
As for the food being sell-able with lesser effect i think it’s fine, but with 50% tax and current pricing i don’t think it will sell well anyway. But maybe having foodshop as c3 skill replacing current c3 skill is ok, probably each level increase the duration of the food buff while giving around 0.4 times effect of normal buffs
Fencer: More range for the attacks. I’m not asking for an AoE damage or something like that but I think that a Rapier should be able to hit enemies in front without having to stick to them
Great thread and great ideas for the classes. I’ll like to point other points missing for Peltasta and Rodeleto classes, since this is the only thing I played at higher levels. English is not my main language so bear with me. My build is Pelt C3 > Rod C2 going for that sweet C3.
Peltasta
Rim Blow:
Should be add 2 new attributes.
First to remove the god damm knock back, like Highlander attribute for Cartar Stroke.
The second attribute is to take the “Inflicts additional damage on both petrified and frozen enemies” text and make a proper attribute that gives 20% bonus damage for each level, max level 5.
Lagort:
Should be at Circle 2 as well. Damage is low but it should help Pelt C2 to level up. Since High Guard was moved to Circle 3 and you don’t have that sweet “Speciality”.
High Guard:
Your idea is great, but 2 things that will help even better are:
If the duration was the same time as the cooldown, like finestra from Hop C2, but that might be too powerful.
And if the attribute “High Guard: Increased Defense” give magic defense instead of physical defense, because as a swordsman you struggle more against magic mobs and there is no point in having physical defense if you’re blocking the attacks(what High Guard is suppose to be).
Having 50 flat defense for a stance is not that good, but it’s better then physical defense. If they add scale with SPR will be way better, but that’s Pardoner job, so I think won’t happen.
Rodelero
I didn’t pick Rodelero C3 yet, but that pretty much sums the class. But that sounds like a dream so here some changes, plus yours, that might improve the class.
Shield Charge:
Change the name to Shield Walk . No. Seriously, I think that this skill should actually use the run animation of Swordsman or, at least, give you movement speed while raising your shield and consuming stamina. The higher the skill the more stamina consumption.
With that we maybe can see some stamina swordsman build.
I’m not going to say how much it should those values(speed/stamina), because I actually don’t know how much that would became OP. But when a skill says SHIELD CHARGE I image my character LUNGE A GREAT DISTANCE WITH THAT BIG ******* TOWER SHIELD.
Shield Shoving:
Is not to meant to be a damage skill, so why not increase the duration, and make the reach a little higher than a basic attack I seriously need to kiss the mob/player to turn them.
Shield Bash:
This skill has good damage but the effect is just bad. The improvement should be to change the “stats temporarily scrambled” for one or more of this things:
1 - “Temporarily decreases the target’s INT and SPR”. Just like Crown from Highlander and Headshot from Musketeer.
2 - Attaque Conquille effect from Fencer but for Strike attack, it should look like this: “The enemy’s defense is ignored when attacked again with [Strike] attacks”.
3 - Give silence/confuse to an enemy hit by this attack.
Shield Bash is suppose to be a skill that hit hard with your shield, so the debuff should be something in this sense.
Slithering:
Oh man… I think this would make Rodeleto way too strong. The idea is great, increase the duration and some interaction with Target Smash. I would say something like this:
Duration: Base Level: 1 seconds
(0.5 * SkillLevel) seconds
New Effect: Enemies will receive double damage by Target Smash, while being in the ground.
And for all of this to happen IMC needs to decrease the animation time to use this skills.
Sorry for the long answer. That’s everything I could think of right now.
Just want to point out current basecamp level (or refreshment table level) doesn’t affect food buff duration. I got squire, but not yet tested this but the description doesn’t mention anything like that, the camp does give buff meant to increase other buff duration for (20% x basecamp skill level) (i also never bother to test this buff effects) but it doesn’t works for food buff as far as i know. I got level 1 basecamp, lv 10 ref table, and 2 level each on food buff to increase duration (+2 minutes), end up with buff last for 32 minutes (no apparent effect from base camp buff).
Until now we have 0 responses from the dev team about swordsman weakness. I know they have many bugs to fix but at least a staff could come here and say: “Dear saviors, we are aware of swordsman massive weakness we are working in swordsmans skills to bring him to competitive scenario.”
I changed my mind. Now I look to swordsman as a 4fun class. If you want to be competitive go wiz/arch/cleric.
I love play as swordsman and will stick with him.
fuse gung ho and concentrate. move swash buckling from peltasta to swordsman C1 or give swordie different AoE taunt. C1 it could be:
Targets: 5/6/7/8/9 (-2 than Swash Buckling)
Maximum Provocation: +12 for 30 seconds
Attribute could give Dodge or Attack instead of HP
it’s dumb that you are FORCED to pick Peltasta C1 in EVERY build because without you can forget about parties (dungeons or grinding) specially in high level one…
I literally had to delete my SwordC2/BarbC2. Now I have SwordC1/PeltastaC1/Barb… SwordC1 buffs are garbage atm because of that and I don’t have restrain anymore >.> RIP dream of stunlocking enemies when I get to Corsair2
■■■■■■■ swash buckling kills all the fun of creating different builds in Swordsman class >.<
The worst thing in swordsman: micro hitboxes.
I have 9 AoE attack ratio but is almost impossible hit more than 3 or 4 mobs.
For me is a shame taunt mobs and use crosscut+skyliner to do damage in less than 5 targets.
No point have a high aoe if you can’t use all them.
Yeah, I think that the ideas work for now and the developers can decide which ones are good and they can adjust the values to what they consider appropriate (they do have more data than us to find out the correct value each one should have).
I will add your post to the list.
These sound pretty good, I will add them to the list.
I think that taxes in general can be better, they are pretty high right now.
Do you mean auto-attacks or also skills?
So Butterfly and Langort both at C2?
Yeah, I think it would be too powerful and might need balancing around that fact, but that could also be an option.
I think this would be good.
But it also would be good if it was an option available to every Swordsman, rather than those that take Peltasta C2~C3.
However, I do think it would be pretty nice if there was some sort of magic damage mitigation based around SPR, opening up a new way to build more “tank” oriented builds.
How about increasing movement speed per level?
I think the duration is balanced taking PvP into consideration.
Not sure how popular this change could be. Some people do like the current version of this skill for PvP.
Maybe Shock, Semi-Armor Break or Silence could be added to other skills?
Yeah, I think it was too strong but the version of Slithering in Korea already got too strong with the new changes, so I think this will be unnecessary.
I was looking to give Freezing to Rodelero through some way or another to have a little bit more of synergy with it’s own kit and Peltasta one. So there surely is a better way to achieve this, although not necessary.
Alright, thank you. It was suggested as another improvement to the class, so it is on the list now.
Yeah, I don’t think we will hear anything official and it will just come up one day through the patch notes.
But all we can do is give our feedback and suggestions. Hopefully they will do something with them.
I don’t think that Peltasta is forced by any means. There are plenty of level 280 people that don’t have Peltasta on their Swordsman builds.
While having Peltasta makes it easier to grind in parties, which is currently the fastest way to level up at higher levels, it is not the only way to keep on acquiring levels.
I also don’t think that it will remain like that forever. In my opinion, the only reason for the game to be in it’s current state is because it has a temporary solution to the lack of end-game content in the game.
I believe that in the future there will be more quests, more maps with more mob options (or scaling down of the current ones) and it will no longer be necessary to grind in a party at higher levels.
Just by doing this the problem will fix itself, just the way it is before level 230 where Peltasta is nice to have but not mandatory.
Yes. Lagort has low damage/scale the more important thing is some sort of piercing damage to help leveling up, since we lost the 330% additional damage with High Guard.
I think that a valid option as well. Will be a weak version of Trot but without pet.
I didn’t know that people actually like that on PvP, but they could add this effect for attribute. Since Shield Bash & Shield Shoving only have enhance attribute. Will make some to “combo” e.g.:
Shield Bash while the enemy is under Unbalanced effect make them Silence.
Shield Bash while behind an enemy(Shield Shoving) make them Blind.
So in that way you make other skills valid and having some challenge to master the Class and to make sure not everybody do the same build, with the same points, put this attribute at lvl skill i.e. Shield Bash lvl 3.
Ping might be a problem to “combo” on PvP.
I see what you mean, but I don’t think IMC will put a magic type of CC to a Swordsman Class, maybe if we get some like a BattleMage then that may happen.
The health brackets of the game will continue to increase. The solution the devs have to this is higher skill damage.
Scaling isn’t really in line with the truth of how the game operates. Not that attacks can’t have scaling but you can’t scale low level skills into permanent relevancy.
E.g. Snipe is 5997 Base damage. X 4 by itself its over 20k damage.
Fire 15 is 324 base damage, x 15 hits its 4,860.
It’s 1500% scaling but the reality is that the skill which used to be a juggernot becomes less effective as health pools increase and enemy defense raises.
Multi-shot is in the same boat. It’s still a strong skill, but it becomes less potent as health raises, and as we go past 280 and health raises further it’ll become increasingly less potent, while new skills (and current r7 skills going to +10 or 15 for C3 classes) will have higher bases to keep relevant for the content that comes out.
Enemies can resist status effects as such we see even a spell like Cure becomes less potent for damage as its hits start to naturally be resisted.
Worrying about r2/r3 contributions in r7 isn’t going to grant much.
What will you do for r8 and r9 (which we Know are coming as a result of datamining) Buff Carter Strike more so it’s relevant for r8/r9 mobs?
It’s just not a practical solution.
If R7 classes (the C3’s of R5’s, C2’s of r6 and C1’s of R7) are underperforming it’s best to just handle those classes. Because you know there is going to be greater damage/defense/health requirements as the game progresses.
You are a little mistaken on the purpose of all this.
This is not about looking to “scale low level skills into permanent relevancy” or “worrying about r2/r3 contributions in r7”.
This is more of a general feedback and identifying pain points that each class and circle has, addressing each one of them and proposing changes that could bring more life to said class.
While the proposed changes will indirectly improve the performance of Swordsmen into the higher levels, that is not the main concern here.
Remember the previous version of Cataphract?
It was awful to play.
Extremely long cooldowns, low damage, the skills took too long to charge, the character had to stand still to use it’s skills and it certainly was the weakest class of the Swordsman tree.
What did they do?
They reduced the cooldowns, increased the damage, made it so you could charge them while moving, reduced the total charge time and also made it so the skills deal multiple hits from level 1 instead of having to charge to max level to do so.
Now the class feels great. Cataphract is fun to play, it has a clear and strong main source of damage, a distinctive advantage for picking it over other classes and overall a more smooth playing style.
Now it is, in my opinion, the most balanced class in the entire Swordsman tree.
It still has a few minor problems, like no real reason to allocate more points into Impale and Steed Charge, but outside of that the class is in a pretty good spot.
After those changes Rodelero took the spot for the weakest class in the tree. And exactly the same thing is happening, they are improving the class. While it isn’t quite there yet, the massive buffs to Slithering as well as the minor buffs to the other skills make the class more appealing to play and gives it a much better reason to pick it for a build.
Each class in the Swordsman tree has areas where they can improve and skills that feel underwhelming even at the point at which you acquire them (Rank 2, 3, etc). Fixing these issues and improving on areas where players felt the class or skills failed them, will make the playing experience and the reasons to choose these classes for a build better.
And it should also open up more build diversity instead of a few dominant builds that pull ahead of the rest.
For example, while the 0 cooldown on Sky Liner is certainly unhealthy, it opened up the door for more builds and increased the build diversity as we had new builds like Highlander-Rodeleros, Highlander-Cataphracts, Highlander-Dragoons, Highlander-Squires, etc.
It made Highlander too dominant when it came to choosing DPS builds, but if we get a more healthy version of Sky Liner into our version (like many versions that have been suggested in this thread), then it will give the class more life, a better reason to pick it for a build and overall increase the build diversity in the tree.
This goes beyond trying to fix what I consider a temporary problem at Rank 7.
For all we know future Rank 8 or hidden classes could improve the current situation even more and while we know that there will be new classes and stronger mobs, we can’t make any assumptions that the game will remain the same or that these classes won’t provide the tools to deal with them.
We can worry about the future when it is time to do so.
For now, regardless of whether or not they perform at Rank 7, each class has clear points where they can improve just like it was done with Cataphract, Barbarian and how it is currently being done with Rodelero.
. No. Seriously, I think that this skill should actually use the run animation of Swordsman or, at least, give you movement speed while raising your shield and consuming stamina. The higher the skill the more stamina consumption.