[Feedback][Open Discussion] Proposed changes to the Swordsman classes - by Cathexis

[Cathexis]

The numbers can be small to avoid the need of additional drawbacks, thus why I put (x) they can work it as IMC deems balanced.

Yeah, I think that the ideas work for now and the developers can decide which ones are good and they can adjust the values to what they consider appropriate (they do have more data than us to find out the correct value each one should have).

I will add your post to the list.

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i would suggest either of the following ideas:

1. Allow refreshment table to be opened without basecamp nearby
2. Reduce the cost to open food table (to around 5-7k)
3. Allow basecamp buff duration bonus affect food buffs duration

These sound pretty good, I will add them to the list.

As for the food being sell-able with lesser effect i think it’s fine, but with 50% tax and current pricing i don’t think it will sell well anyway. But maybe having foodshop as c3 skill replacing current c3 skill is ok, probably each level increase the duration of the food buff while giving around 0.4 times effect of normal buffs

I think that taxes in general can be better, they are pretty high right now.

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Fencer: More range for the attacks. I’m not asking for an AoE damage or something like that but I think that a Rapier should be able to hit enemies in front without having to stick to them

Do you mean auto-attacks or also skills?

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Langort
Should be at Circle 2 as well. Damage is low but it should help Pelt C2 to level up. Since High Guard was moved to Circle 3 and you don’t have that sweet “Speciality”.

So Butterfly and Langort both at C2?

If the duration was the same time as the cooldown, like finestra from Hop C2, but that might be too powerful.

Yeah, I think it would be too powerful and might need balancing around that fact, but that could also be an option.

High Guard:

Your idea is great, but 2 things that will help even better are:

If the duration was the same time as the cooldown, like finestra from Hop C2, but that might be too powerful.

And if the attribute “High Guard: Increased Defense” give magic defense instead of physical defense, because as a swordsman you struggle more against magic mobs and there is no point in having physical defense if you’re blocking the attacks(what High Guard is suppose to be).

Having 50 flat defense for a stance is not that good, but it’s better then physical defense. If they add scale with SPR will be way better, but that’s Pardoner job, so I think won’t happen.

I think this would be good.

But it also would be good if it was an option available to every Swordsman, rather than those that take Peltasta C2~C3.

However, I do think it would be pretty nice if there was some sort of magic damage mitigation based around SPR, opening up a new way to build more “tank” oriented builds.

Shield Charge:

Change the name to Shield Walk . No. Seriously, I think that this skill should actually use the run animation of Swordsman or, at least, give you movement speed while raising your shield and consuming stamina. The higher the skill the more stamina consumption.

How about increasing movement speed per level?

Shield Shoving:

Is not to meant to be a damage skill, so why not increase the duration, and make the reach a little higher than a basic attack I seriously need to kiss the mob/player to turn them.

I think the duration is balanced taking PvP into consideration.

Shield Bash:

This skill has good damage but the effect is just bad. The improvement should be to change the “stats temporarily scrambled” for one or more of this things:

1 - “Temporarily decreases the target’s INT and SPR”. Just like Crown from Highlander and Headshot from Musketeer.

2 - Attaque Conquille effect from Fencer but for Strike attack, it should look like this: “The enemy’s defense is ignored when attacked again with [Strike] attacks”.

3 - Give silence/confuse to an enemy hit by this attack.

Shield Bash is suppose to be a skill that hit hard with your shield, so the debuff should be something in this sense.

Not sure how popular this change could be. Some people do like the current version of this skill for PvP.

Maybe Shock, Semi-Armor Break or Silence could be added to other skills?

Oh man… I think this would make Rodeleto way too strong. The idea is great, increase the duration and some interaction with Target Smash. I would say something like this:

Duration: Base Level: 1 seconds + (0.5 * SkillLevel) seconds

New Effect: Enemies will receive double damage by Target Smash, while being in the ground.

And for all of this to happen IMC needs to decrease the animation time to use this skills.

Yeah, I think it was too strong but the version of Slithering in Korea already got too strong with the new changes, so I think this will be unnecessary.

I was looking to give Freezing to Rodelero through some way or another to have a little bit more of synergy with it’s own kit and Peltasta one. So there surely is a better way to achieve this, although not necessary.

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Just want to point out current basecamp level (or refreshment table level) doesn’t affect food buff duration. I got squire, but not yet tested this but the description doesn’t mention anything like that, the camp does give buff meant to increase other buff duration for (20% x basecamp skill level) (i also never bother to test this buff effects) but it doesn’t works for food buff as far as i know. I got level 1 basecamp, lv 10 ref table, and 2 level each on food buff to increase duration (+2 minutes), end up with buff last for 32 minutes (no apparent effect from base camp buff).

Alright, thank you. It was suggested as another improvement to the class, so it is on the list now.

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Until now we have 0 responses from the dev team about swordsman weakness. I know they have many bugs to fix but at least a staff could come here and say: “Dear saviors, we are aware of swordsman massive weakness we are working in swordsmans skills to bring him to competitive scenario.”

I changed my mind. Now I look to swordsman as a 4fun class. If you want to be competitive go wiz/arch/cleric.I love play as swordsman and will stick with him.

@Kascly

I dont think IMC will openly admit current Swordman is a fail class.Doing so, they might as well admit TOS is a fail product, it hurts their reputation and opportunity to market this game.

Anyway, I do agree Swordman currently is a For-Fun class. I having so much fun failing dungeon at lv160 because Archer rage quit, Mage cant CC properly and Cleric just have lv5 heal…

Yeah, I don’t think we will hear anything official and it will just come up one day through the patch notes.

But all we can do is give our feedback and suggestions. Hopefully they will do something with them.

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my suggestion

fuse gung ho and concentrate. move swash buckling from peltasta to swordsman C1 or give swordie different AoE taunt. C1 it could be:Targets: 5/6/7/8/9 (-2 than Swash Buckling)Maximum Provocation: +12 for 30 seconds Attribute could give Dodge or Attack instead of HP

it’s dumb that you are FORCED to pick Peltasta C1 in EVERY build because without you can forget about parties (dungeons or grinding) specially in high level one…

I literally had to delete my SwordC2/BarbC2. Now I have SwordC1/PeltastaC1/Barb… SwordC1 buffs are garbage atm because of that and I don’t have restrain anymore >.> RIP dream of stunlocking enemies when I get to Corsair2

■■■■■■■ swash buckling kills all the fun of creating different builds in Swordsman class >.<

i think IMC design for this game is for everyone to work together regardless class build and have fun.

IMC didnt thought that the community will shun any swordman without pelt swash.

I don’t think that Peltasta is forced by any means. There are plenty of level 280 people that don’t have Peltasta on their Swordsman builds.

While having Peltasta makes it easier to grind in parties, which is currently the fastest way to level up at higher levels, it is not the only way to keep on acquiring levels.

I also don’t think that it will remain like that forever. In my opinion, the only reason for the game to be in it’s current state is because it has a temporary solution to the lack of end-game content in the game.

I believe that in the future there will be more quests, more maps with more mob options (or scaling down of the current ones) and it will no longer be necessary to grind in a party at higher levels.

Just by doing this the problem will fix itself, just the way it is before level 230 where Peltasta is nice to have but not mandatory.

[Viniliano]

So Butterfly and Langort both at C2?

Yes. Lagort has low damage/scale the more important thing is some sort of piercing damage to help leveling up, since we lost the 330% additional damage with High Guard.

How about increasing movement speed per level?

I think that a valid option as well. Will be a weak version of Trot but without pet.

Not sure how popular this change could be. Some people do like the current version of this skill for PvP.

Maybe Shock, Semi-Armor Break or Silence could be added to other skills?

I didn’t know that people actually like that on PvP, but they could add this effect for attribute. Since Shield Bash & Shield Shoving only have enhance attribute. Will make some to “combo” e.g.:

• Shield Bash while the enemy is under Unbalanced effect make them Silence.
• Shield Bash while behind an enemy(Shield Shoving) make them Blind.

So in that way you make other skills valid and having some challenge to master the Class and to make sure not everybody do the same build, with the same points, put this attribute at lvl skill i.e. Shield Bash lvl 3.

Ping might be a problem to “combo” on PvP.

Yeah, I think it was too strong but the version of Slithering in Korea already got too strong with the new changes, so I think this will be unnecessary.

I was looking to give Freezing to Rodelero through some way or another to have a little bit more of synergy with it’s own kit and Peltasta one. So there surely is a better way to achieve this, although not necessary.

I see what you mean, but I don’t think IMC will put a magic type of CC to a Swordsman Class, maybe if we get some like a BattleMage then that may happen.

[Delcas]

The health brackets of the game will continue to increase. The solution the devs have to this is higher skill damage.
Scaling isn’t really in line with the truth of how the game operates. Not that attacks can’t have scaling but you can’t scale low level skills into permanent relevancy.

E.g. Snipe is 5997 Base damage. X 4 by itself its over 20k damage.
Fire 15 is 324 base damage, x 15 hits its 4,860.
It’s 1500% scaling but the reality is that the skill which used to be a juggernot becomes less effective as health pools increase and enemy defense raises.
Multi-shot is in the same boat. It’s still a strong skill, but it becomes less potent as health raises, and as we go past 280 and health raises further it’ll become increasingly less potent, while new skills (and current r7 skills going to +10 or 15 for C3 classes) will have higher bases to keep relevant for the content that comes out.

Enemies can resist status effects as such we see even a spell like Cure becomes less potent for damage as its hits start to naturally be resisted.
Worrying about r2/r3 contributions in r7 isn’t going to grant much.
What will you do for r8 and r9 (which we Know are coming as a result of datamining) Buff Carter Strike more so it’s relevant for r8/r9 mobs?
It’s just not a practical solution.
If R7 classes (the C3’s of R5’s, C2’s of r6 and C1’s of R7) are underperforming it’s best to just handle those classes. Because you know there is going to be greater damage/defense/health requirements as the game progresses.

[Cathexis]

The health brackets of the game will continue to increase. The solution the devs have to this is higher skill damage.Scaling isn’t really in line with the truth of how the game operates. Not that attacks can’t have scaling but you can’t scale low level skills into permanent relevancy.

E.g. Snipe is 5997 Base damage. X 4 by itself its over 20k damage.Fire 15 is 324 base damage, x 15 hits its 4,860.It’s 1500% scaling but the reality is that the skill which used to be a juggernot becomes less effective as health pools increase and enemy defense raises.Multi-shot is in the same boat. It’s still a strong skill, but it becomes less potent as health raises, and as we go past 280 and health raises further it’ll become increasingly less potent, while new skills (and current r7 skills going to +10 or 15 for C3 classes) will have higher bases to keep relevant for the content that comes out.

Enemies can resist status effects as such we see even a spell like Cure becomes less potent for damage as its hits start to naturally be resisted.Worrying about r2/r3 contributions in r7 isn’t going to grant much.What will you do for r8 and r9 (which we Know are coming as a result of datamining) Buff Carter Strike more so it’s relevant for r8/r9 mobs? It’s just not a practical solution.If R7 classes (the C3’s of R5’s, C2’s of r6 and C1’s of R7) are underperforming it’s best to just handle those classes. Because you know there is going to be greater damage/defense/health requirements as the game progresses.

You are a little mistaken on the purpose of all this.

This is not about looking to “scale low level skills into permanent relevancy” or “worrying about r2/r3 contributions in r7”.

This is more of a general feedback and identifying pain points that each class and circle has, addressing each one of them and proposing changes that could bring more life to said class.

While the proposed changes will indirectly improve the performance of Swordsmen into the higher levels, that is not the main concern here.

Remember the previous version of Cataphract?

It was awful to play.

Extremely long cooldowns, low damage, the skills took too long to charge, the character had to stand still to use it’s skills and it certainly was the weakest class of the Swordsman tree.

What did they do?

They reduced the cooldowns, increased the damage, made it so you could charge them while moving, reduced the total charge time and also made it so the skills deal multiple hits from level 1 instead of having to charge to max level to do so.

Now the class feels great. Cataphract is fun to play, it has a clear and strong main source of damage, a distinctive advantage for picking it over other classes and overall a more smooth playing style.

Now it is, in my opinion, the most balanced class in the entire Swordsman tree.

It still has a few minor problems, like no real reason to allocate more points into Impale and Steed Charge, but outside of that the class is in a pretty good spot.

After those changes Rodelero took the spot for the weakest class in the tree. And exactly the same thing is happening, they are improving the class. While it isn’t quite there yet, the massive buffs to Slithering as well as the minor buffs to the other skills make the class more appealing to play and gives it a much better reason to pick it for a build.

Each class in the Swordsman tree has areas where they can improve and skills that feel underwhelming even at the point at which you acquire them (Rank 2, 3, etc). Fixing these issues and improving on areas where players felt the class or skills failed them, will make the playing experience and the reasons to choose these classes for a build better.

And it should also open up more build diversity instead of a few dominant builds that pull ahead of the rest.

For example, while the 0 cooldown on Sky Liner is certainly unhealthy, it opened up the door for more builds and increased the build diversity as we had new builds like Highlander-Rodeleros, Highlander-Cataphracts, Highlander-Dragoons, Highlander-Squires, etc.

It made Highlander too dominant when it came to choosing DPS builds, but if we get a more healthy version of Sky Liner into our version (like many versions that have been suggested in this thread), then it will give the class more life, a better reason to pick it for a build and overall increase the build diversity in the tree.

This goes beyond trying to fix what I consider a temporary problem at Rank 7.

For all we know future Rank 8 or hidden classes could improve the current situation even more and while we know that there will be new classes and stronger mobs, we can’t make any assumptions that the game will remain the same or that these classes won’t provide the tools to deal with them.

We can worry about the future when it is time to do so.

For now, regardless of whether or not they perform at Rank 7, each class has clear points where they can improve just like it was done with Cataphract, Barbarian and how it is currently being done with Rodelero.

[Delcas]

This goes beyond trying to fix what I consider a temporary problem at Rank 7.

Swordsman C2-C3 have the issue of Thrust:bleeding and Pommel Beat requiring stuns at ranks where its not available (outside of restrain and stun shot).
Changing it to slow would be preferential. That or adding some other form of activating these bonuses with some practicality if their reward is to be so low.

[Efner]

Do you mean auto-attacks or also skills?

both, just extending the range of the area, something like this:

+x AoE attack will be useful

[WRawkz]

Warning: Wall of Text
TLDR: Generally increase AOE hit ratio and damage through stats while tweaking skills to better cope with Swordman’s melee weaknesses.

Only commenting on classes that I’ve personally played and while I’ve read most of this topic, I didn’t read them all (too much lol). So, bear with me if there’s a repeat or has been already discussed. Also, PVE only.

Let’s start with my perspective on the Swordsman class as a whole.

Swordman are;
-Balanced. I.E Jack of all trades, Masters of none.
-Combo based
-Natural Tankers (If you are the only swordsman in the party, you are the tank. Regardless of your build.)
-Can Dps
-Melee
-Physical Attack

Now let’s talk DPS. Being a balance class, Swordsman should have respectable DPS on par with Wizards and have AOE that are better than Archers but not better than Wizards. Therefore, Swordsman’s capability in between Archers and Wiz. Before you scream this is stupidly over buffing. Hear me out.

What we have now is this;
Swordsman can AOE, but Wizards are way better. We’ve got respectable DPS, but don’t expect to breeze through single targets like Archer. Don’t forget, they have range while swordsman have to melee. This leads us to drawbacks.

Drawbacks,
-Melee. The biggest drawback in ToS. Bosses in this game have mechanics that affects melee a lot. All range can have long periods of uninterrupted DPS so long as they stay in range.

Swordsman have to be up close and have to deal with all the mechanics. This is why I propose Swordsman DPS to be on par with Wizard. With all the downtime avoiding the mechanics, our DPS will naturally drop, making the range the best DPSers in the game(which they should be). This also address the whole ‘Swordsman have higher HP so they should deal lesser DPS’. But in solo content, this put us in a same playing field.

-Combo based. Swordsman needs time to reach respectable DPS. Debuffing bosses, getting buffs on ourselves etc. There’s also a limit to how many buffs we can get. This will again, make our dps not as potent and solidifying the range as the best DPSers.

Next, Peltasta’s Swash Buckling(SB). This skill is so potent to the point that people are literally looking for ‘Swashbuckling’(LF>Taunt). Not even looking for swordsman but for just one skill. This is why Swordsman are being forced to take C1 Peltasta despite Peltasta being the tank tree

Since swordsman have a natural tank role, I suggest giving Highlander a ‘Swash Buckling’ equivalent. This way, Swordsman can branch out properly while still fulfilling their class roles without being shoehorned into c1 peltasta.

-Highlander-
Not a fan of creating skills. Treat this as an idea rather than a suggestion. Also, don’t know which skill to replace this with.

Hurricane- C1
-Spin in high velocity and suck enemies on the field to you for a brief moment, then knocking them back.
-Amount of enemies sucked are equivalent to Swash buckling.
-Low damage
-Slightly longer Cooldown than SB
-Cost slightly higher than SB
-Skill attribute
-Reduce knock back distance.
-Required stance: 2 handed-sword only

Main difference is this does damage, SB doesn’t. Sucking enemies is better than simply provocation but it knocks back the enemies after a while. Also, this does not hold aggro like SB. So, this acts more like a pulling skill. Overall Swashbuckling should be a better skill since it is a tanking tree.

Wagon Wheel
-[Add]Skill attribute
-Low chance proc a second attack that whack your enemies down from the air. (Does lesser damage than initial damage) (Works even if enemies does not launch in the air)

Cartar Stroke
-Combined Skill attribute ‘Collision Damage’ into main skill
-Does not spread the hits amongst the mob. I.E LVL5 = 5 hits on each mobs in it’s radius.
-[Add]Skill attribute
-If skill is interrupted, next cartar stroke charge time is halved. [Only procs if have overheat]
-Cooldown Increased

Serves as a damage increase and the skill attribute serves as a buff to give people a reason to increase this skill. Charge time is too long at high level to be of any use. Personally really like this change but also think it may be too strong for Swordman standard so I added an increased cooldown.

Crown
-No comment on this. Never used this is my life. lol

Cross Guard
-Cost will reduced to 1/2 if skill procs within 0.5 seconds.
-Will always block physical (overwrites dodges in this stance)
-[Add]Small recovery time after you release cross guard where you cannot dodge.
-[Add]
Rewards skill based play. Always block will make this skill really good so I added a risk with this skill to balance it a little.

Moulinet
-Targets locked in place but can still attack [Does not work on boss]
-Uninterruptible but can be knock back.
-Aoe attack ratio increased

Slow animation and long recovery time is what pulling this skill down.

Skyliner
This skill seems fine to me. Only thing I would change would be a slightly bigger hit box.

Cross cut
-[Change] Applies bleeding on the first hit instead of second.
-[Change] Will target non bleeding mobs should all of them is in its radius.
=[Change] Reduce initial Damage
-[Change] Increase bleeding.

I think this makes the skill more stable and reliable. Also, this helps a little bit more to cope with the dps lost while we deal with boss mechanics.

Skullswing
Overall this skill seems fine but needs to be more potent at late game to be consistent. This skill drops off in late game.

Vertical Slash
-[Change] Deals addtional damage to all types instead of limiting sizes

Corsair
Dust Devil
-100% dodge on your jump animation (small window)

This adds a rewarding way to deal with boss mechanics and to compensate it’s low damage.

Swordman

Concentrate
-Increase the damage given
-[Change] Skills count as one hit even if multi hitting skills.
-[Add]Skill attribute
-Applies to skills only. Auto attack won’t proc. (Can be turned on/off)

Useful for skill spammer build.

Gun-Ho
-Increase the damage given
-[Add]Increases Minimum damage
-[Add]Skill attribute
-Increases critical damage and crit chance but lowers Max HP and dodge.

Useful for DPS build but comes with a price.

Pain Barrier
-Cost nothing
-Increase Cooldown

I personally think that learning to deal with mechanics of bosses should be one of the defining Swordsman’s characteristics. Pain barrier should be calculated for clutch and smart moments IMO. If it’s too good, everyone would just pain barrier then auto pilot

Thrust
-Combine Skill attribute ‘Continuous attack’ into main skill
-[Replace]Skill attribute
-If ‘continuous attack’ procs, low chance your next thrust cost 0 sp. (0 SP thrust does not proc this skill attribute)

Bash
-Combine Skill attribute ‘Knockdown’ into main skill.
-[Replace]Skill attribute
-Chance to slow your enemies. (Auto-attack timing increased)

Gives both these skill more flavour, damage and of course adds a measure to prevents infinite thrust.

-ToS Content-
Fix all bosses hit boxes. Hit box should reflect the sprite. Some of them even have seriously wonky hit boxes.

-General-
Increase the stats STR gives for swordsman.
Have CON give minor damage boost to skills.
Increase auto-attack AOE attack ratio by 2
Increase skill AOE attack ratio by 1

[Noobz]

The proposed improvements sheds some sunlight in my eyes giving most skills % modifiers which would really help scale up the damage of the class i would just like to add the skills my alt sw3-barb1-corsair2 has

Restrain should have another attribute since it has slow it wouldnt be too op if we add another one like
Restrain:bleed adds bleeding effect to the skill bleed damage would be based on skill level lasting for 5 seconds

Why add bleed? Some skills of swordman tree requires bleed and the only way to make enemies bleed is via thrust bleed which also needs enemies to be stunned to bleed which imo is really time consuming to prepare and really lowers our dps

Pain barrier should block all status ailments and cc’s its called pain barrier for a cause this skill lasts for a very small amount of time while having a high cool down which is good for it not to be abused but lacks the safety we wanted as a melee… you still take dmg while this buff is active how would it be OP if you can resist all status ailments and cc’s ? Archers/wizard can run if they see you buffed it being scaredy cats wont hurt sometimes it doesnt last that long rofl while clerics can easily tank your dmg… they even tanky than us u think u the greatest tank of all? Think again.

Double slash this skill is very unrewarding for an r3 skill yes it gives 2 hits with 500+ dmg (bonus dmg with enemy is bleeding) but has 3 overheats and a long cd? This skill certainly works like highlander’s skyliner imo this skill should have the 0 cd skyliner has before with its natural animation to not be spammed like hell this would make the decision of taking sw3 reasonable

Barbarian is gonna get polished over time so skip this one hopefully we get that 50% slash dmg debuff with cleave it is a very promising buff for barb

Hexen dropper increase the aoe ratio the hitbox is really small its considered to be the strongest sword skill but can only be used to immobile targrts lol?

Double weapon assault the changes proposed by cathexis is fine but if it would be considered stamina drain should be removed it would deplete our stamina in the sink so fast

Dust devil I find this ski as a good aoe just needs to increase its aoe …

Meh… back to my qs bye bye.

[TacioDaito]

I will give some opinions about some of proposals related to the Dragoon. Feel free to question about it.

Dragontooth, Serpentine and Dragon Soar

Problem: For Rank 7 skills, it makes no sense for these skills to have no Overheat.

In rank 7, there’s 5 new cicles or classes to pick up on the swordsman tree: Shinobi, Templar, Fencer C2, Doppel C2 and Dragoon. I will not talk about Templar, because this opinion is more focused to the combat part.

Shinobi is a class based on extreme risky for high damage. He brings some utility as well with the sthealth attributes and [Mokuton no Jutsu]. His damage have form of great semi-ranged AoE burst, with a long-medium cooldown.

Fencer C2 is a low AoE DPSer. He doesn’t have much utility and literally goes straight to the point: single target ‘high’ DPS low cd spammer.

Doppel C2 in other hand have a good AoE ratio and the highest damage skill in the entire swordsman tree (Cyclone). Just like Shinobi, he sacrifices his defense to get damage (and xp/silver), but not in the same level of Shinobi. Good AoE, High burst, good utility and high-medium cooldowns. At the moment, we have 2 high burst and good utility classes; 1 full dps class. There’s only one class left: the coffee with milk/default/half-to-half class.

Dragoon, different from the other classes, have (at least should have) a good combination of AoE burst and DPS. His skills doesn’t have high cooldowns, but also doesn’t have low damage. They lack utility and only have attack skills in their set (until right now), so they can focus in archieve the perfect combination of burst and dps.

The overheat system works like a “skill multiplier” in a momentum: you use the skill 2~3~5 times in a row (most of the times) to get the effect twice in a small time. With attack skills, overheat means literally burst (Barbarian cof Doppel cof cof). For this reason, i don’t think that Dragoon should have overheat; it might not be truth, but the devs not putted it because they know that use D.tooth, D.soar and Serp. would already make a fair burst, and avoiding the usage of overheat would open space to decrease the cooldown of those skills or increase they damage. So, what i propose are simple tweaks that would make the Dragoon a more competitive class when people choose between the R7 classes.

Dragontooth

Level 1 Base Damage : From 477 –to–> 716
Base Damage Scalling : From 60 –to–> 90
Cooldown : From 17 –to–> 14
Cast time : Static 1 second for all levels. Can move during cast.
AoE Ratio bonus: From 0 to 2
Level 1 Base SP cost : From 48 –to–> 42
Base SP cost Scalling : From 7 –to–> 6

Serpentine

Level 1 Base Damage : From 589 –to–> 883
Base Damage Scalling : From 84 –to–> 126
Bleeding attribute proc chance: From 2% per att.lv –to–> 4% per att.lv
AoE Ratio bonus: 0
Level 1 Base SP cost : From 52 –to–> 48
Base SP cost Scalling : From 8 –to–> 7
Animation time decrease (40%~30%)

Dragoon Soar

Level 1 Base Damage : From 525 –to–> 756
Base Damage Scalling : From 77 –to–> 108
Cooldown : From 15 –to–> 16
AoE Ratio bonus: 0
Level 1 Base SP cost : From 43 –to–> 44
Base SP cost Scalling : 5

Gae Bulg

Now can be aimed. (like spear throw)

Those type of tweaks already happen with other classes (cataphract, long long time ago with the archers, barbarians, etc), and even the dragoon itself already have been a little buffed some time ago (before the early acess). All they need to do is keep buffing slowly until the DPSer sword become ready to compete equally against other classes; and there’s a little thing that they need to do as well…

BRING THE KTOS PATCH TO ITOS AND SYNCRONIZE THEM ONCE FOR ALL

[thailehuy]

Concentrate
-Increase the damage given
-[Change] Skills count as one hit even if multi hitting skills.
-[Add]Skill attribute
-Applies to skills only. Auto attack won’t proc. (Can be turned on/off)

Useful for skill spammer build.

I think right now concentrate should be buffed the same way blessing is buffed in kTOS, make it scales with STR. And increase the number of hits (10-15 more hits would be nice)

Pain Barrier
-Cost nothing
-Increase Cooldown

I personally think that learning to deal with mechanics of bosses should be one of the defining Swordsman’s characteristics. Pain barrier should be calculated for clutch and smart moments IMO. If it’s too good, everyone would just pain barrier then auto pilot

I personally think that pain barrier should not have cooldown increase. Because there are many charged/long animation skills in swordman tree, without pain barrier, you have next to 0 chance to cast them in crowded spot.

What it should be is to decrease the base duration, but increase the scaling duration with level so that people need to invest, not 1 point wonder.

Serpentine

Level 1 Base Damage : From 589 --to–> 883Base Damage Scalling : From 84 --to–> 126Bleeding attribute proc chance: From 2% per att.lv --to–> 4% per att.lvAoE Ratio bonus: 0Level 1 Base SP cost : From 52 --to–> 48Base SP cost Scalling : From 8 --to–> 7

This skill need faster animation, when you get flinched, you lose 3/7 hits.

[DoubleCheeseHam]

dig, I love how op show the new improved skills, please IMC

[Parmenion]

Hello Cathexis,

Nice guide (loved to read the guide to swordmanship) and here nice brainstorming for the underloved swordman tree.

I will give comments only the part I know, the spear tree. I have played several Hoplite during the beta and on iToS after release.

Around lvl 200 putting a cd on concentrate during combat is kinda a lackluster. It is adding 1-2K “True damage” in total if you are able to spend all the charges. It is hard to pull out all the potential even with multihit skills (needing to be immobile and immune cc to do it properly on a good willing stationnary target). Gung ho is litterally eating a buff slot without a real impact except for low lvl or solo hunting (when you have not buff limit).

The ideas behind the upgrade of concentrate/gung ho are really well thought because it helps your CORE class to be relevant during ALL you career. Even if it is only fluff (or me i don’t know) but swordman is the class that gives your character its identity.

Quick Casting is defining DPS wizard and Surespell and Sleep (CC) will always be useful.

Kneeling Shot is scaling with Dex and can be used even if you are not focused on Dex to add some good damage. Swift step will always upgrade the mobility and could be used even in higher ranks.

Safety zone and Divine might will always be useful (buffing stronger skill and blocking stronger hit). It is the same for Heal and Cure.

My actual build is SW2/Pel1/Hoplite 3/Dragoon as a Dragoon tank

Mainly to get a long enough Pain barrier to cast all my DD skills.

My stats distribution is easy to undertsand: All in CON and Free point from Quest and Pots in STR.

I’m just worried about the potential you pointed on Finestra change:

Block instead of INT. In my case 10% of my Block value is a net flat bonus for my low attack character.
The problem is when I’m buffed by a stoneskin (coming from my friend Chap) I have around 3K block giving a 300 Att (1/3 of my total power with my weapon) that is maybe a little too much.
Maybe it could be capped to a certain value depending on your character lvl?

100% agree on Spear lunge debuff duration scaling with Rank, a faster animation on Long stride could really help this skill to become the gap closer it needs to be. The same problem is noticeable on spear throw, the damage is to low with this so long animation (even with the spear +100% damage)

Some rework is also needed on Synchro Thrusting because the range is awfull and the casting time too long. It could be nice to be an automatic block doing nice bonus damage when blocking an incoming hit.
A medium/long CD (25-30 sec) could help it to be transformed into a Powerful defensive CD that should be used wisely and with a good timing.

Regarding the Dragoon, a better scalling and maybe a potential CD reduction at a later rank will give this class a better identity as “Boss hunting class with Hard hitting skills class”. Giving them overheat could be too much…
A faster animation or an immune push back attribute during Serpentine could be a nice addition.

I agree 100% on Gae Bulg, you should be able to aim even at close range, it is really hard to use properly and most of the time, you miss most of the debuff time running to take your spear

At least a really nice thread !

Thank you for proposing it.

Best Regards
MrHeisenberg EU Fedimian

[Zarren]

main problem for Swordman is majority of us want to be DPS, while everyone (include IMC) wish us to be tank, since we’re melee and has more HP…

this quite problematic because we need (to waste?) 1 rank for Pelt just for Swash Buckling…

so why don’t you just put Swash Buckling at Swordman tree? after all it doesn’t need a shield to used…

as for Pelt give them a new skill:

Dispersion, a buff skill, automatically put you on Guard Stance and percentage physical damage you take is disperse on nearby enemy within the radius, maybe 2-3% each level…

also give it an attribute to disperse magic damage, maybe at rank 3 Pelt…

as for damage scaling, give Swordman a new class attribute:

Berserk, for each percentage HP loss you’ll gain bonus physical damage, max at 30% damage…

since physical damage also count for each skill, guess this is better than re-scalling all those skill, also maybe this can encourage other to put some CON and be a tank everyone wish for…

[fatedhour]

No need for that shitty new skill lol. Just double the guardian evasion bonus from 18% to 36% or something.

Honestly, swash buckling is overrated since it is not that great at endgame/earth tower.

[rdance.doe]

Idea :
Finestra : Has an option to decrease Finestra penalty to evasion even by a little bit.
reason : For a Swordman, very little bit of evasion counts. Even for Full CON and Full STR build

[haukinyau]

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