[Feedback][Open Discussion] Proposed changes to the Swordsman classes - by Cathexis

[Metalooney]

Below are just my opinion on the suggested changes
swordman - i agree with most of the suggestions, though i think the concentrate attribute give too much extra attack charge at the suggested value
just thinking sw c3- cata c3- end game class(r7+) with decent spr (for CC resist and block pen) would be almost unstoppable at that rate (not really a big problem since they will probably kinda squishy if the go offensive route, but tanky route will become kinda anti-CC )
note: i’m not sure they fixed double slash description(aoe ratio) in-game yet, too lazy to complain at bug section

Guardian

Problem: The Physical Defense it provides isn’t at all significant in the game and it doesn’t scale well into higher levels. Same as Gung Ho, this skill should have more incentives for leveling up that will stay relevant later on.

Proposed change:

Physical Defense: +1.5% per level
Physical Attack: -0.5% per level
Base Physical Defense: 20 at level 1
Physical Defense increase per level: 5

i think this skill should be the main component from peltesta, the current design is a disappointment (then again that is just my prerogative )
i dunno whether the peltasta ability to tank magic is intentionally made to be poor or not, but adding magic def to the equation may give an incentive to increase this skill
other possible change would be by making this skill to reduce dmg received instead
if not, i think better % gain and less flat gain since priest aspersion greatly overshadowed this skill at the current suggestion

High Guard

Problem: The penalty it has is too big to justify using this skill.

Proposed change:

Circle: Peltasta C3
Block: 5% + 50 per level
Attack Penalty: -10% per level
Duration: 10 seconds
Cooldown: 20 seconds

New attribute:

Required Circle: Peltasta C3

Effect: Increases the Attack penalty by 30% (80% total at level 5 High Guard). Shares 50% of the Block increased by High Guard to every party member around the Peltasta (radius-based, like an aura).

Max attribute level: 1

not really agreeing with this one, but making this skill c3 would also be fine
my suggestion of the skill rework (compared to the original/current) would be:

• more block/level, may reduce block bonus at lv 1
• reduced movement speed should be alright, may include bonus resistance to knockback / knockdown
• all ‘damaging shield skills’ get better damage (compared to current design), either by nullify the penalty from them or assigning bonus damage
• can shield ally close to the caster (like pavise)
  i don’t include number since i’m fine with either this skill become c2 or c3 skill

peltasta - i agree peltasta need to be buffed (either by more damage or more tanking capability) especially c2 and c3, currently the c1 give out so many utility thus making c2 and c3 kinda underwhelming

highlander - i don’t really know much of highlander build, but i believe it should be buffed/nerfed to be balanced with the other r2 class, if the other got major change

barbarian - i think this class is mostly fine, proposed changed are ok, kinda hoping they swap some skills between circle but it’s also fine at current design.

hoplite - i think the suggested changes are fine, but the values could be reduced or better paced(increase/level) as currently hoplite is already strong for early game

cata - i agree impaler need to be given a reason to level, steed charge at the moment is simply bad, suggestion would be increase of level would increase the distance traveled and add an attribute that will drag the enemies (or maybe only the first enemy it hit) instead of just knockdown. the increase in distance would make this bothersome to use in pve, but giving it another interesting skill when it used on pvp (and it fit the charging cavalry for me )
i think its fine for cata to lack damage since it’s main point is having mobility (and extra defensive stat from companion)

rodelero - i think first thing they need to do is making up their mind if this class is a defense oriented (as currently suggested by the blue emblem) or offense oriented (change to red emblem) as currently the class skill is offense oriented and/or the CC is quite underwhelming, please make some synergy available (then again this will probably take time and couldn’t quickly implemented) for this class is recommended since its currently very boring to play in most scenario

squire -
MT skills need better scaling (weapon & armor mt), but not as high as what you suggest
weapon mt : 75% weapon attack even without flat is way overkill, 15% or 30% on lv15 plus current flat is already enough even considering lv400+ gear)
armor mt : at least it need 0.5 def for every (star x skill level), may need percentage for lv300+ gear
penalty red : i don’t think current skill works, squire does need a C3 skill but i have no idea what to suggest
base camp/refreshment table : i don’t agree with ability to sell refreshment table food since it reduce the need to include a squire on a party but i really hope they decrease the cost to make the basecamp and refreshment table (increasing the food ingr price is ok) or fixed the basecamp buff which suppose to increase buff duration (i’m not sure about other class buff, but tested that food buff didn’t receive any bonus from basecamp)
current pricing is really bad if you aren’t planing a long grinding session

corsair - agreed with your opinions, i especially want a better scaling for jolly roger

rest of class i’ll reserve my judgement since the class is not yet complete… but i agree that most of the offensive swordman class need better scaling comparative to other DPS class, its true that swordie have 3x hp, but the damage comparison is very crude making DPS swordman class obsolate in competitive environment

in general (not only swordman tree), i do hope they give better skill description and patchnote / changelog (instead of ‘ninja’ patch we sometime don’t even know/notice).

rants: i still think templar should be a hidden rank instead a real one… i was thinking about hidden class templar for each class tree that have 3 common skill, and an unique skill (differ for each base class)
summon member/tower and improve craft time would be the common skill, while swd/arc/wiz/cle having str/dex/int/spr aura (similar to current templar’s design)

[Cathexis]

I have read all suggestions to all classes that I played and I must say that…this doesnt change a thing in the game.Proposed changes are still not fixing the problem that is visible from 10 km. Game need big revamp and decision of “what for given classes exist at all”.

Yeah, the game has a lot of problems to fix overall, but this isn’t really about completely fixing every problem regarding the Swordsman class. It is about small/quick changes they can make to improve each class and circle while a better overhaul comes in the future which could take months of waiting for us.

The game need passive attributes for each class, giving it weight in the role you take. Each class should matter in your build and it should give you visible boost in given field of the class.Good example is highlander 2 handed critical damage (made in crappy way anyway, but you get the point).

Every class should give you 3 additional passive attributes, 1 on each tier of the class (C1,C2,C3), examples:

This would be a more interesting change but it would apply to every class in the game, not just Swordsman, so it is a more complex solution that requires more time to craft and properly implement / balance out.

Cartor strike:Charge duration - 3 seconds on all levelsBase damage: 100% per hit(you dont even need the +x damage in skills) +5% per levelNumber of hits : 3 + 1 per 5 levelsOvercharge : 2Aoe increase by 3% per level(Role : high burst damage, high aoe but slow and hard to output skill)

Stomping kick:Base damage: 140% +5% per levelNumber of hits : 1Overcharge : 2Bonus effect : 100% +30% per level of boots evasion value added to damage(Role : low weapon damage but high bonus boots damage if you gear under the skill)

Zornhau:Base damage : 500% +50% per levelNumber of hits :1Overcharge : 1Bonus effect : Can hit only single targetBonus effect 2 : Increase damage of next Zucken by 100% +10% per level(Role : High burst single target skill, boost zucken, simply a skill for single powerfull enemy)

These are the quick modifications they can make to make each class/circle feel more meaningful for the moment.

Thank you for your post!

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The reasoning behind Cor is the function of Jolly Roger and it’s Flag. The Flag allows the taunt to be directed AWAY from the swordman, thus 0 con DPS builds can drop a flag and position themselves To the REAR of their targets to get the attribute bonus from cor.

Jolly Roger could scale at 2 targets taunted per level so at lvl 5 you have a max of 10 and then 1 per every 5 levels after that.

I think the flag should have HP or a drawback if that is the case. Otherwise it is a free tank with no penalty at all. At least the Peltasta has to directly receive the damage of the oppoonents, which makes it a fair trade.

The current bonus of combo are… crap really don’t matter its not like parties care about it enough to go out of the way for it. Make them large to incentives parties going for the bonus. In reality if cor offered a heavy support aspect swords would then have a third route independent of DPS, fair or no it is an easy option to implement to take care of sword for right NOW. Cor would be like the Brd of EQ/FFXI, not power house DPS or Tank but worth bringing along.

I think the combo would be alright if it added 1~2% extra total damage per level. It would make it a great utility skill for the entire party

Also Immunity as a party wide buff at 50% makes it a viable defense, but still means if you Leroy Jenkins you will likely get dead. It can also scale at 1% per attribute for each level of the Skill thus need cor3 to get the full 50%

50% is way too strong in my opinion. A lower value would be more balanced.

But yeah, the ideas in essence are the important part, the values can always be tweaked around to balance them out.

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I think that making Cross guard (Highlander Parry) avaiable for 2H Spears, will help a LOT. Then what about make finestra avaiable for any weapon?

I wouldn’t mind, but it would probably become too dominant on the choices for builds. You would suddenly see Fencer builds taking it too, as well as Doppelsoelder builds that can still use a 2H Sword because they have the attribute to do so.

Perhaps with a weaker version of Finestra and adding other compensating benefits to the Hoplite could make it work. But that is a little more of extra work to think about.

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i dunno whether the peltasta ability to tank magic is intentionally made to be poor or not, but adding magic def to the equation may give an incentive to increase this skillother possible change would be by making this skill to reduce dmg received insteadif not, i think better % gain and less flat gain since priest aspersion greatly overshadowed this skill at the current suggestion

Well, the idea is that there are still class interactions to take into consideration. Just because Aspersion is stronger doesn’t mean Guardian should be too, as they both can co-exist on the same character and it would make the end result too strong.

We would need to know if the current state of Magical Damage vs Magical Resistance in the game is intentional or not like you said, but if it isn’t then it would be another good way to improve the Peltasta class.

weapon mt : 75% weapon attack even without flat is way overkill, 15% or 30% on lv15 plus current flat is already enough even considering lv400+ gear)

Yeah, I agree. I changed the values to 2% per level, which would be 30% at level 15. If it is still too strong it can always be lowered to 1% per level and 15% at max.

i don’t agree with ability to sell refreshment table food since it reduce the need to include a squire on a party but i really hope they decrease the cost to make the basecamp and refreshment table (increasing the food ingr price is ok) or fixed the basecamp buff which suppose to increase buff duration (i’m not sure about other class buff, but tested that food buff didn’t receive any bonus from basecamp)

The idea is that food from the camp is still stronger than the one from the shop, adding a better incentive to still do it through the traditional way (especially on pre-made groups), but not depending on it for the rest of the people.

What do you think the pricing should be to make it better overall for the food?

[sabunete]

The first chance i would do would be moving swash buckling from peltasta to swordman c1. I mean, clerics are the only healing capable class and they start with this ability, if sowordmans are sworn to be tanks they should do it from start too. No one should be punished for not getting peltasta. All skills should scale in % and this is for all the classes not just swordman. The “blue classes” should have more skills to reduce damage taken like paladins resist elements at least as a short secondary effect. And lastly swordmans need movement reducing skills and CC breaking too. At least breaking free from CC that are not from a Magic source.

[varuna]

The first chance i would do would be moving swash buckling from peltasta to swordman c1. I mean, clerics are the only healing capable class and they start with this ability, if sowordmans are sworn to be tanks they should do it from start too. No one should be punished for not getting peltasta. All skills should scale in % and this is for all the classes not just swordman. The “blue classes” should have more skills to reduce damage taken like paladins resist elements at least as a short secondary effect. And lastly swordmans need movement reducing skills and CC breaking too. At least breaking free from CC that are not from a Magic source.

Sorry but I don’t believe in investing into swordsman c2 and c3 just to make Swash Buckling better. It should stay on Peltasta.

[draconsio]

At least, make the Peltasta harder to play. From what i have seen so far the Peltasta is: Swash buckling, High guard, Press C. Wait Cooldowns and repeat.

[varuna]

Some ideas I’m throwing out. You don’t necessarily need to agree with all of this.

Subject to change.

Swordsman

Provoke attribute: increases max # of mobs can aggro on you.

• Gung Ho
  P.ATK: (STR ÷ 4) + 50
  P.DEF: -10

• Concentrate
  Add DMG: +52
  Hits: 52

• Restrain
  Chance of slowing enemy: 100% (changed from stun)
  Max HP: -534

• Pommel Beat
  Attack: 374
  Defense Ignored: 70
  Chance to stun: 50%

• Double Slash
  Deals additional damage vs slowed targets instead of bleeding targets.

Highlander

• Wagon Wheel
  Is now a ranged attack that creates a crescent slash and KD’s targets.

• Cartar Stroke
  Attribute added: Decreases Cartar Stroke charging time by half. (Highlander c2)

• Cross Guard
  Changed to work exactly like Guard but consumes # SP per second.

• Moulient
  Cooldown reduced from 35 seconds to 30 seconds.

• Crosscut
  Cooldown reduced from 28 seconds to 20 seconds.

Peltasta

• Rim Blow
  100% chance to stun targets for 3 seconds.
  Attribute added: No longer knocks enemies away.

• Guardian
  P.DEF: (CON ÷ 4) +35
  M.DEF: (SPR ÷ 2) +35
  Now applies to # of teammates depending on skill level. Visuals changed to blue orbs instead of red.

• Shield Lob
  Cooldown reduced from 54 seconds to 0 seconds.

• High Guard
  Block: +(STR + CharLv * 3 + 240)
  Attack penalty removed.

Hoplite

• Stabbing
  Cooldown reduced from 25 seconds to 20 seconds.

• Pierce
  +1 overheat
  Bleed chance increased to 5% per attribute level.

• Long Stride
  Causes bind debuff for 1 second.

Barbarian

• Embowel
  Now applies Bleeding for # seconds.
  Attribute added: Knock enemies down.

• Stomping Kick
  Now leaps ontop of targeted enemies from a distance. Cooldown increased to 60 seconds and overheats removed.

• Giant Swing
  Hits all mobs at the tip with the bound target up to a maximum of 9 times. Hitbox depends on the size of the monster.

• Pouncing
  Cooldown reduced from 81 seconds to 40 seconds.

Rodelero

• Shield Charge + Slithering merged into 1 skill. All effects remain the same. Acquired at Rodelero c2.

• Shield Push
  Added effect to protect you against an enemy attack when using the skill.

• Shooting Star
  +1 overheat added.
  Cooldown reduced from 30 seconds to 20.

Squire

• Arrest
  Cooldown reduced from 52 seconds to 30 seconds.

• Armor Maintenance
  P.DEF: +11 at level 1 / +25 at level 15.

• Penalty Reduction
  Negates all penalty from death.

Corsair

• Jolly Roger
  Combo activation no longer requires to be party leader.

• Pistol Shot
  Makes enemies more vulnerable to missile attacks for 6 seconds.

Doppelsoeldner

• Punish
  Crit rate increased by +100 when using the skill.

• Deeds of Valor
  Now a 2H sword requirement.

• Mordschlag
  Changed to be only usable by 2H swords.

• Zornhau
  Makes enemies vulnerable to slash-type attacks for 5 seconds.

• Redel
  Deals additonal damage vs silenced targets.

Fencer
Can now equip pistols at c2.

• Lunge

Now dashes at opponents from a range with a quick single stab.

Dragoon

• Gae Bulg
  Ignores Block.

• Dragon Soar
  Nullifies 1 debuff upon activation.

Shinobi

• Kunai
  Overheat increased by +1.

• Bunshin no Jutsu
  Clones can now use all attacking skills. (No guarding, buffs, etc)

[haukinyau]

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

[envisionarylunacy]

both the tank classes need more aggro gaining ability on skills or cc that are actually reliable (or god forbid some magic def type skills)

because right now being a pelt 3 is a 1 trick pony with everything else just kind of insignificant to swash

being a rodelero 3 is a one trick pony with everything else being kind of insignificant to slithering

and then being a squire has the most godly broken stun
that for some reason is on the merchant but not on either of the tank trees
and this stun is so amazing that it is arguable that this stun alone is better CC than all of the rodelero/pelt ccs combined, that and its wayyy more reliable

pelt has a single knockback/unreliable stun
rodelero has a 1second stun/ slow/ chance to paralyze?
a 3 second blind
i think unbalanced is a 5 second cc? im not really sure what unbalanced state is from shield push
and then a nudge from shield charge

meanwhile squires op stun is 10 seconds long and can hit up to 16 enemies and can even work on bosses and lowers the stunned things phys def by 50% and then a 6 second slow after the stun

all in 1 single move…what?
it has a super long almost 1 min cd…but if i was in a panic mode situation i would much rather have the god stun than anything else

and then of course a bunch of skills that have nothing to do with actually being in combat, but more for usefulness
so its another very dry one trick pony combat wise
(the shops and camp are still really cool,but this doesn’t make the actual fighting game-play any more exciting)

give the merchant class a money throw or a new shop or something and give the omega stun to one of the actual tanks?

maybe make a magic defense based tank so that way if u want to tank both worlds you have to invest 6 circles into it?

and it will be pelt = phys dmg tank rodelero = pvp tank ______=magic tank?

its really bad when a tank wants to pick a merchant class and not even want the merchant skills from it but instead want the 1 out of place mega skill that shouldn’t really be on that class in the first place

[clauriet]

i can only talk about the cataphract because thats the class i am using, so in my experience i would say that overral catapracs are good, really good compared to most swordies (we all know our problem with the attack departament). Adding to my older advise of the pet attribute i would say that making rush a “toggle” skill would be cool, just that the sp cost gets bigger as time goes by with using the skill to balance it, or hell, that maxium time gets increased with attibute or level.

[nazrious]

@Cathexis Fair points.

As for HP of the flag I think this adds a level of complexity to it that in truth is not needed. You are gathering the mobs and holding them for a short time, until they are stripped. If the flag is tanking that means your party/you are doing abysmal damage. I could see some solo exploitation here but the taunt effect could be made for party only.

Currently if you place a flag it sits there and sometimes mobs react to it, or not, mostly newly spawned mobs, and often not even then. If when placing the flag it taunted and then was done then you have a gather method independent of the hated Pel 1 (For non-tanks). The flag is there to gather not to tank past any type of real damage.

Combo would be very strong at 1~2% per level at lvl 10 thats a 10~20% bonus which is very good. However this should be across all needed stats Atk, Def, Res, Matk. In this way it provides something to the whole party and not just the sword (who no one cares about much anyways) Sure archers will like it but Wiz and Cleric would not care much about the extra work to buff someone elses atk. That is the nature of PUG play sad to say.

In regards to Immunity perhaps 50% is strong, but it should scale with the radius of the AOE of JollyRoger, think unreliable SafeZone. Where safezone is X amount of attacks immunity is RNG based and can get someone dead just as much as save their skin.

Also broken down by circle capping at 33% for c2 Cor means that swords have a reliable (enough) mechanism to stay melee and not soak up too much damage/waste cleric resources. In truth this translate more to Magic than physical because there are so many methods to negate/avoid/block physical that it is not so important. Lastly they could always separate the two making the chances independent so say something like 5% for magic and 1% for physical for each additional attribute.

My overall approach is quick and dirty, then tweak later, If IMC had a gun to their head they could implement these changes quickly and easily… Unless they truly have no clue about their own code…

#spaghettilife

[igor_lavor]

• Gung Ho
  P.ATK: (STR ÷ 4) + 50
  P.DEF: -10

If you’re going to make the P.ATK buff scale with STR it’s only fair you make the P.DEF buff to also scale, don’t you agree?

• Restrain
  Chance of slowing enemy: 100% (changed from stun)
  Max HP: -534

I actually think replacing the stun for a “permaslow” skill is a very interesting change. The HP reduction should scale off the character’s health, like “-10% of your character’s current HP”

[shinchronox]

If you’re going to make the P.ATK buff scale with STR it’s only fair you make the P.DEF buff to also scale, don’t you agree?

Nah simply because not every skill in the game that has a buff has a drawback that signifcant. Swift cast comes to mind .perfectly able to keep upime of it all the time.

[varuna]

If you’re going to make the P.ATK buff scale with STR it’s only fair you make the P.DEF buff to also scale, don’t you agree?

Gung Ho doesn’t buff your P.DEF tho, it decreases it. I think you’re talking about Guardian which I already made scale with CON.

Also, the attribute already knocks off a total of -50 defense so I think that’s more than enough.

[Cathexis]

The first chance i would do would be moving swash buckling from peltasta to swordman c1. I mean, clerics are the only healing capable class and they start with this ability, if sowordmans are sworn to be tanks they should do it from start too. No one should be punished for not getting peltasta. All skills should scale in % and this is for all the classes not just swordman. The “blue classes” should have more skills to reduce damage taken like paladins resist elements at least as a short secondary effect. And lastly swordmans need movement reducing skills and CC breaking too. At least breaking free from CC that are not from a Magic source.

That would be valid IF they wanted to force that role on the entire Swordsman tree. However, we don’t know that and I personally think that it is not the case.

The only reason why Swash Buckling is predominant right now is because past level 230+ the best way to level up is through party grinding. Once they introduce more maps, quests, dungeons, etc; there shouldn’t be as much problem on not having Swash Buckling, just the way it is before that point.

That is not a problem with the classes, but the current state of the game.

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At least, make the Peltasta harder to play. From what i have seen so far the Peltasta is: Swash buckling, High guard, Press C. Wait Cooldowns and repeat.

Bad ones do that. Good ones are always doing more.

But what would you suggest to add more complexity to it?

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Some ideas I’m throwing out. You don’t necessarily need to agree with all of this.

They are a bunch, so I will just put your post as a whole on the suggestions section.

The problem with many of your suggestions is that they don’t encourage investing points into the skills, because most of them get all their benefits from level 1, making them low priority or simply 1 point skills, which isn’t ideal.

But they are good utility added to the skills, so if they were to be paired with another incentive to level them up, then it would turn out pretty well.

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Impaler* Attribute : Allow attack to do AOE attack ratio by 1 per attribute, max 5 level. Requirement, Impaler lv5.

The reason why it is limited to 1 is because it would be too broken otherwise (and it wouldn’t fit thematically).

Rush* Attribute : Reduce harmful effect time by 1sec per attribute level. Max 3level. Increase SP usage by 3 per level. Minimum harmful effect time is 1sec.

This one is too strong for someone that already has mobility on it’s kit.

The rest I think are good, so I added them to the suggestions.

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its really bad when a tank wants to pick a merchant class and not even want the merchant skills from it but instead want the 1 out of place mega skill that shouldn’t really be on that class in the first place

Yeah, overall they could use some more “cool” skills.

Looking at the protection skills or crowd control that are on the Wizard/Cleric tree, then comparing them with the ones on the Swordsman tree, they are just so different and on a whole new level.

But this depends mostly on the developers and whether or not they want to give this type of utility to the Peltasta/Rodelero classes in the Swordsman tree.

Or maybe one of the Rank 8 classes will be able to provide this type of utility.

We will see.

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Adding to my older advise of the pet attribute i would say that making rush a “toggle” skill would be cool, just that the sp cost gets bigger as time goes by with using the skill to balance it, or hell, that maxium time gets increased with attibute or level.

What do yo mean by “toogle”?

It currently is a channeling skill, in my opinion that is more

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My overall approach is quick and dirty, then tweak later, If IMC had a gun to their head they could implement these changes quickly and easily… Unless they truly have no clue about their own code…

Yeah, these are the kind of changes I am aiming for. Quick ones that can be easily implemented without having to go through an extensive evaluation that could take months.

Your proposed changes are good, they only need tweaking to be balanced. My only problem is that it gives too much power to the Corsair class in terms of utility, so I would like to see it being balanced out on other classes as well, otherwise Corsair would be too dominant if it is the only one getting this kind of treatment.

[herflikster]

The game need passive attributes for each class, giving it weight in the role you take. Each class should matter in your build and it should give you visible boost in given field of the class.Good example is highlander 2 handed critical damage (made in crappy way anyway, but you get the point).

Every class should give you 3 additional passive attributes, 1 on each tier of the class (C1,C2,C3), examples:

This would be a more interesting change but it would apply to every class in the game, not just Swordsman, so it is a more complex solution that requires more time to craft and properly implement / balance out.

I agree to you partialy. Its true that its not only something that will affect swordman, but not only swordman tree is somewhat broken. Many sub-classes of other classes are also underused and need some love or how I like it more, have some role where you specialize in.

The part that I disagree is that it wont take really long time to implement.
The hardest part of it that will take time is to think out the passives, but like you see most of them would be repeats of other classes just in different field.

Passive skills like attrubutes are easiest to code into game. You can literaly copy paste a code of other attrubte, set description to it, skill level table (depending from game engine) and input simple coding to stats there.
For someone who know what she/he is doing its like 5 minutes per skill as long as he/she have the skills writen down already.
Taking into account that we have like 55 classes in game then it is 3x 55 x5 = 825 minutes of coding. That 14 hours of work, less than 2 work days of work for a single guy.

I would say if 2 guys focused on the work it would take them probably 1 week top. Month if they created fancy passives that require implementation of some fancy stats.

[Cathexis]

The part that I disagree is that it wont take really long time to implement.The hardest part of it that will take time is to think out the passives, but like you see most of them would be repeats of other classes just in different field.

Passive skills like attrubutes are easiest to code into game. You can literaly copy paste a code of other attrubte, set description to it, skill level table (depending from game engine) and input simple coding to stats there.For someone who know what she/he is doing its like 5 minutes per skill as long as he/she have the skills writen down already.Taking into account that we have like 55 classes in game then it is 3x 55 x5 = 825 minutes of coding. That 14 hours of work, less than 2 work days of work for a single guy.

I would say if 2 guys focused on the work it would take them probably 1 week top. Month if they created fancy passives that require implementation of some fancy stats.

Coding is not what takes most of the time.

You need to properly test every one of them and assure that they were properly implemented and there are no bugs or typos on the values.

Then you have to properly test their interactions as you combine them with other classes within the same tree as there are many possible ways to mix them up which could lead to unexpected results.

You also have to properly test their balance when compared with class interactions as other buffs or skills could prove to be too strong for the current state of the game.

Since they are a company, all of these tests and iterations also have to go through documentation and if they have their own process for testing then they will also have to go through them.

Once they are properly tested and implemented they have to integrate them into the live version of the game, so you also need to do integration tests to guarantee that everything went correctly without any problems.

After it has been implemented then you need localization, which isn’t much as there are only Koran and English versions as of now, but they need to be translated and guarantee that the translations are correct.

As a single person it is pretty easy to make changes into the code and move them to production quickly. But in a company there are usually many steps or barriers one has to go through before submitting that code into live servers (proper testing, documentation, agreement with the team, approval from the manager, etc, etc).

It is not as simple as it looks when you work in a company, so this could take at the very least a few weeks but most likely a few months.

[herflikster]

The part that I disagree is that it wont take really long time to implement.The hardest part of it that will take time is to think out the passives, but like you see most of them would be repeats of other classes just in different field.

Passive skills like attrubutes are easiest to code into game. You can literaly copy paste a code of other attrubte, set description to it, skill level table (depending from game engine) and input simple coding to stats there.For someone who know what she/he is doing its like 5 minutes per skill as long as he/she have the skills writen down already.Taking into account that we have like 55 classes in game then it is 3x 55 x5 = 825 minutes of coding. That 14 hours of work, less than 2 work days of work for a single guy.

I would say if 2 guys focused on the work it would take them probably 1 week top. Month if they created fancy passives that require implementation of some fancy stats.

Coding is not what takes most of the time.

You need to properly test every one of them and assure that they were properly implemented and there are no bugs or typos on the values.

Then you have to properly test their interactions as you combine them with other classes within the same tree as there are many possible ways to mix them up which could lead to unexpected results.

You also have to properly test their balance when compared with class interactions as other buffs or skills could prove to be too strong for the current state of the game.

Since they are a company, all of these tests and iterations also have to go through documentation and if they have their own process for testing then they will also have to go through them.

Once they are properly tested and implemented they have to integrate them into the live version of the game, so you also need to do integration tests to guarantee that everything went correctly without any problems.

After it has been implemented then you need localization, which isn’t much as there are only Koran and English versions as of now, but they need to be translated and guarantee that the translations are correct.

As a single person it is pretty easy to make changes into the code and move them to production quickly. But in a company there are usually many steps or barriers one has to go through before submitting that code into live servers (proper testing, documentation, agreement with the team, approval from the manager, etc, etc).

It is not as simple as it looks when you work in a company, so this could take at the very least a few weeks but most likely a few months.

Those are passive skills, there is almost no testing involved in it unless you really made a crappy game from coding side.
Most stats in games are simple stat_name = x in table and nothing more.
Even you or I would write that at the age of 9 with bit of common sense. You can always do small mistake in numbers, but thats why you should double check it (reading few lines of code per skill isnt so hard to do, you pay people for being responsible for what they do in work, you cant kindergarden them being afraid that they mess up all the time).

Balancing issues will need testing, but most of the process will take place in part where you thinking out given skill. With bit of math and common sense behind it. It will never be perfectly balanced and will need to be adjusted based on player feedback. It cant be worse than now anyway, so you have nothing to lose.

Documentation is a job that is their internal process. They need to optimize it by themself. As a customer of a given product you dont pay them for that, its their own problem they created for themself as a company. In such cases there shouldnt be much of documentation. The version control programs should be own way of documenting the changes and only the responsible person of given depertment should give out paper veryfing that he/she allowed and agreed to given changes to the product.

Integrating such stuff in game shouldnt take much time, unless like I wrote above, they failed at the early concept of how the game is made and how flexible it is to changes. Unfortunately the market dont have space for companies who fail at such technical problems, reality is brutal.

As a member of large company I know how bueaucracy impact and slow down the process that is meaningfull for our clients, but we fight with it all the time. Because like I said, client dont pay for it while we do, time is money, resources, including human ones is one of largest money sink in companies aswell. People need to remember to not fall into paranoia when runing a company, quality is important, but over-quality is waste of money. Especialy when you are runing company that offer product that cant really harm a human being (it is not material product like chems for example) so even small fails at quality side wont affect the big picture and can be quickly fixed anyway.

[Cathexis]

So in the end it is at the very least a few weeks if not months, because this is IMC and not other company.

We can’t really tell because we don’t know the internal structure at IMC so we can assume a lot of things and in the end they wouldn’t matter if that is not how reality is. From what we have seen so far though, is that they are very slow to implement changes though.

Maybe they don’t even have the resources to do so at the moment and the ones that they do have are allocated to other things.

Without knowing the exact details of the company, there is no way for us to really tell how much time it would take. Could it be better/faster? Sure. But that is not up to us.

[haukinyau]

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[nazrious]

Hers some easy changes for other classes, however I don’t have much experience with other classes so I have held off till now.

Hoplite perhaps the most balance class in the sword tree right now. Add an attribute (Spartan Training) that adds X% of damage per level up to lvl 50 when a shield is equipped. This would make hop3 more desirable as a stand alone and also reinforce the shield bearer theme of Hoplite.

Cataphract Attribute (Pet attack) add a second line of damage that is pet attack + x%, x can be determined by a formula taking the level of attribute and what ever multiplier would work for balance. Basically an upgradable Arde dagger while mounted, and it stays in line with the theme of Cata.

Shinobi Attribute (Suijin no jutsu) adds a secondary effect to Moktun creating a “water sphere” which gives immunity to damage and CC for x seconds per attribute up to a limit of 1~5 depending for balance.

Attribute (Smoke bomb) after using mijin or katon or both. Adds a debuff aura around the spot used ( The Jolly roger flag mechanics can be used here as an easy solution) The aura gives a sever penalty to Acc and X. X would be some kind of penalty to magic either by an increased casting time or a reduction to the overall magic damage which ever would be easier to implement/ more balanced.

Swordsman Attribute (Equipment Mastery) circle 2+ adds a bonus to all worn equipment of x% per level of attribute.

i have other ideas that are simple can add more when I have more time.

Edit: Got some more time here are a few more.

Dragoon Attribute (Soar) gives an immunity buff for x seconds where x is increased per attribute level after using Y skill, insert what ever skill is most balanced / appropriate. This will allow Goon to get in do damage and not die. It can also be tacked on for multiple skills capping at like 1~3 seconds to allow for skill rotation with out eating to much damage.

Attribute (Fiery Blood) adds x% to damage per attribute level and a weakness to Cold of x%.

Dopel Get rid of DPE as it is, make it an attribute or get rid of the debuff component and increase the number of strikes. If the overall effect is lessened for balance then so be it. In effect this skill is just gimmicky

Attribute (Scything sweep) adds a second line of damage TO Normal Auto Attack that is -x% damage penalty but +X AOE ratio. This will further emphasize the AOE factor of dopple and add to their DPS capability.

Barbarian and Highlander since add in a second line with a different modifier to their skills, for example their skills could have both a pierce and strike component. This will also allow double dipping into buffs alla Cleric cafrisun/arde. The reson for the additional modifier is to take advantage of all the extra damage available thus adding a greater dynamic to these classes. I feel these two classes even more than swordman just fall off later game.