Initially I wanted to add this to my Feedback, but I also saw the boosting problem that RO1 had. I haven’t been able to figure out a solution to this yet.
I really don’t think there is one except this exact solution every other method I can think of would only limit the player further than this pre-existing method. Sure you could argue about them raising it slightly to +10 above your level but you have to remember that for every increase to make it easier for you it also makes it easier for people to boost characters. The developers made an important decision to implement this to keep this from happening and they felt as though +5 was the right choice. I’ll trust in them but I won’t rule out possible future tweaking of the number.
There is a reduction in EXP but I don’t know exactly how much, some said it starts at +5 level but I also am not sure about this. About damage, no matter what I do the damage I deal is always 1 to monsters much higher level than me (I tried with monsters +40 level) unless in case of bug, this was a big disappointment. Also doing overkill will give you 2x the EXP, this pushes players even more from fighting stronger monsters because they can just mob and do overkill on the lower level ones, much easier while more reward.
Many have been comparing the grind of ToS to that of RO and say that ToS must have hardcore grind because RO had but they forget that in RO reward is always there if you can somehow defeat monsters much stronger and that was the fun (pre-renewal of course). One can choose to DS Stings all day for mindless grind or they can choose to go seek thrill in bio3 with a party, both have what they want. I wish it was the same in ToS.
In the end it could even just be a design decision. Maybe they want to keep you in your pre-decided grinding groups as they feel that it’s best for the player to do so? But in the end I think the point about level boosting really makes sense in this example aswell, though I don’t like to bring up the same point twice I do think alot comes down to exactly this.
People always get advantages by having connection to the more powerful, richer people. It is always the case, it will never change. Maybe the developers can put some detection to limit this (in case of a party with members having too far levels then monsters won’t take damage from the lower level players if the monsters are targeting the higher level ones, etc). Letting people leeching each other to some extend wouldn’t hurt as much as punishing all players for wanting to use their skills and seek challenge.
Now it’s kind of ridiculous for them wanting to prevent leeching doing things like all the while letting the EXP shared while players ain’t even on a same map (one in town, the other are in a dungeon fighting, yet the EXP is still shared between the two).
I don’t think that hit detection would work like you think it would. If you’re in a party and a monster is killed, as long as you’re in range it doesn’t matter if hit it or not, you’d still get a share of the exp aslong as the exp is set to shared by party leader.
No. It is simply an idea, I quickly put it out there as an example that there are more things that can be done along with level range restriction than simply not letting anyone fighting much stronger monsters even if they can, talking about skill wise.
Even though it’s just an 2 second idea, used as an example, I feel like wanting to explain it more:
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With level range restriction on EXP sharing (there has to be or all will be meaningless talking about preventing leeching), EXP can’t be shared if players are far too different in level. This will result in the leecher tank case (a higher level player tank monsters for a lower level one to kill).
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To prevent the tank case, monsters can’t be attacked (1 dmg or always miss) by lower level players if they are targeting the higher level ones in the same party. So instead of punishing everyone by making their dmg always be 1, why not only do that on the people in the tank case?
Of course as said, this is just a quick idea using as an example, it has many flaws. The developers may find something much better.
It goes both way. The more they try to prevent leeching, the more they take the fun out of the game to some players. It’s a matter of choosing which is more important, preventing leeching or the fun of some players. Now I am not saying which is more important. I just think that what we need is balance and I believe the balance can be achieved in other means rather than simply punishing everyone for effectively using their own skills to do something otherwise would be impossible. Game-play mechanic aside, it’s so immersion breaking if we take the role-playing part and the story into context.
With that said both examples lead to other issues that arise from doing so, such as preventing high and low level player interactions which can segment the community. With the current system high level players can still help low levels by killing everything and sharing the exp with them, it’s just limited to a level factor that the developers felt was appropriate. I don’t really think there are other options that are as effective as the one already implemented it’s done in such as way that makes some amount of sense. You probably shouldn’t be trying to fight monsters 30-50 levels above you, it’s inefficient and even if you did kill it it’s not as if it would be that much exp even without penalization, it’s more really for bragging rights if any.
And at the less extremes with maybe monsters +7 your own I guess that was down to the devs decisions and being efficient when grinding is an important factor be it xp/hour or sp/mob . Though as stated before we’re not sure if +5 is the actual set number as I only heard that from someone else.
This can actually be implemented by having powerful mobs (and require parties) that give huge xp and weak mobs that give lower xp, all in the same level range.
Also don’t get the misconception that monster difficulty and reward needs to be tied to monster level. You can perfectly have powerful and difficult monsters at the same level as a weak monster (which is the direction I believe ToS is going).
Of course it has its flaw so it’s very hard to find a perfect solution. But no perfect solution doesn’t have to go with no better one.
preventing high and low level player interactions which can segment the community
It’s the same with the current state. High level players can deal dmg normally to high level monsters, while the lower level ones can do nothing. In the example, the lower level ones can still do something as long as they don’t get direct help in fighting the monsters (still can get buffs and stuffs though).
You probably shouldn’t be trying to fight monsters 30-50 levels above
you, it’s inefficient and even if you did kill it it’s not as if it
would be that much exp even without penalization, it’s more really for bragging rights if any.
It’s not for all I know. There is a really satisfying feeling about doing that beside bragging right (actually you can brag about your level and eqs because they are in number and stuffs that can easily be confirmed, bragging about fighting a random strong monster isn’t something most people feel like doing nor there are that many situations in which it can be brought up). Remember the time you try for hours and hours beating a very very hard boss, even near impossible just for the sake of it? Maybe you do that because you want to see what will be there in the next level? That how game was created. To challenge you and make you feel rewarded if you can beat it.
Nope, ALL of the items are NOT from Tenet Garden (Mally is the same area as Panto Wizard btw)
Desmodeus is the flying enemy in Chapel B1.
Also, those item suggestions were in response to you seemingly want different zones for farming gear based on your paragraph long of how apparently Tenet Garden is oh so perfect for everything and that woes you.
So no, I’m not telling you to go back to kill Panto Wizard TO LEVEL, it’s to GET GEAR (y’know, the reason why I link GEAR)
Or what, you want a zone that give you silver, drop gear for your level, give good exp…wait so why complain about Tenet Garden again? Even if they make more zones chances are you’re going to be where this ‘best exp best gear best silver gain’ spot anyway.
Recommendation is just recommendation, people don’t have to follow it (kinda like how Tenet Garden is recommend for what, 35? and you’re 40+? and not going to Chapel B1 where it’s RECOMMENDED for lv 40)
Since you can’t seem to accept map progression unless it’s Payon -> Glastheim (or Pyramid) far apart, then I guess I won’t even bother trying to convince you anymore.
Also don’t get the misconception that monster difficulty and reward
needs to be tied to monster level. You can perfectly have powerful and
difficult monsters at the same level as a weak monster (which is the
direction I believe ToS is going).
I know, actually this is the direction most MMO go (intentionally or not) but not everything can be pointed out since it will make our posts unnecessarily over complex. I can only talk about each small case, won’t be able to bring everything into the context without making an essay out of this about game design.
Though with the debate about EXP rate seemingly ended, I wouldn’t want to have another one. I will leave here. Thanks you guys for the interesting talk.
Ok now I got my gear, where do I go? (Protip: Tenet Garden)
You are the only one here who is unable to accept the fact that progression is very linear. There are many threads that have highlighted this issue and you still want to argue there’s a lot of options for progression.
[Suggestion] Stay Away from Linear Progress
[Suggestion] Linear Progress… PLEASE DONT!
If there are truly so many options to progress my character, please tell me what my lvl 37 Wizard can do to progress besides Nefritas Cliff, Tenet Garden, or B1 Chapel. If that is considered non-linear for you, you need help.
You’ve got to be the most confused person I’ve had the displeasure of having a discussion with.
I apologize I do not have the intellectual capacity to match yours. This is as far as our discussion will go.
I just don’t think these points are valid enough to excuse the issue at hand, that being boosting. Your point about low level players joining higher level players is a little broad. at what extent do you mean? Do you mean Lvl 50’s join Lvl 200’s? Or Lvl 80’s Joining Lvl 100’s? As both have different out comes. And for the most part having someone significantly lower than you helping fight a higher level mob isn’t a very common occurrence at all and is much less done than the other way around. And the bragging rights thing is all conjecture on both sides, to each their own. Still doesn’t justify changing the current system to me.
Anywhere you want? Why not make a challenge for yourself to see how far you can go into higher level zone?
I’ll repeat it again, more zones will not solve your problem, because unless that new zone is better than Tenet Garden you will come back to Tenet Garden (or more specifically the spot north of warp statue, because to you THAT is Tenet Garden, the rest were just places you went for quest and never gone back again, because why stray from BEST SPOT right? you may visit those new zones once for their quests, then it’s right back to BEST SPOT)
You claim you want variations, alternatives, but at the end of the day you will walk the paved road because you refuse to recognize the jungle trail.
Here’s a question: Is getting more level in attributes not progress to you?
If it is, you can consider trying to make money to boost those attributes, even killing the lowest level monster still give 1 exp so it’s not like you’re making absolutely no progress towards that level.
Or how about adventurer’s journal? It gives iCoin which can be used for things such as bigger housing.
Grinding isnt fun
During my testing it seemed like the number that appears on screen when you overkill them is multiplied by the original exp, and then added to it. For example, i was hunting in an area where each kill was 54 exp for me, when i overkilled one for 255%, it gave me 245 exp ((54+255%)+54=245), which is much much more than 2x and much better than grinding in areas my level. This alone was another problem in itself, we are being rewarded for 1 shotting weaker mobs instead of being rewarded for fighting stronger mobs that can kill us in a few hits.
With 600 as the max level, they can easily set exp share range up to 20-25 to prevent leeching while still allowing players to get rewarded for fighting higher level stuff. I had trouble killing anything over 20 lvls higher than me without using all my mana on skills since my basic attacks on them were always 1.
Wow thanks a lot for the info.
Thanks for the Info Very Helpful