You admit you are a parasite then? And you say like it is amazing.
If you admited yourself you are that kind of person, you were in no position to complain about me SUPPOSEDLY wanting to give other people some work.
Decent people don’t like “shoving their work” to someone else, so that means you are not a decent person. Are you proud of that? Do you look in the mirror in the and of the day and think: “Oh, i am such a big boy…”
Since you love so much my opinions, here is another one: Now i think
you are dumb sick person AND a douche.
Dude, my friend did not ask me to compile anything. You did. I know logic isn’t your strong suit, but if you ask someone for something, it’s your responsability to help not my friends’ who doesn’t even know you exist.
I’ve already accepted gladly doing my part. If you deny doing yours, you are just proving yourself to be a great douche who don’t want to help in anything.
So… If you don’t want to help, what are you doing here besides saying buttloads of crap?
Now that’s a lie right there, i never even spoke about compiling anything before you asked me that.
Here is the proof:
See, your words. Not mine.
In order for me to “compile” new values i need the old ones, the one you have in your computer since you have the game.
The work is devided in two parts:
1- getting the old information (easy part since you only have to copy what already exists)
2- rearranging the new one. (hard part, since i have to calculate and organize all that data)
So… Since you asked me to do the second part that would take me 6 straight hours of homework. It is more than fair that you do the other part, since this compiling sh1t was your idea in the first place.
here, see it again
Now Mr. Hypocrit pants want to say i am not a decent person?
First of all, i wasn’t suppose to be helping you understand squad! That’s your parents duty.
Agreeing or not, the majority of the people understood the meaning of the example and the the possibilities, exept you. But i invested my energies explaining to you over and over the meaning and the possibilities even though you made it pretty clear that you DON’T WANT to understand.
And after all the untrue crap you said about me, i made a serious proposition to IMC, offering myself to work for them in exchange of food and shelter just so i could survive while working for them in Korea.
But you? Here is what you said yourself:
You are in no position to talk about decency here, i even accepted doing that stupid compiling you asked me to.
But i think you are afraid that i will actually do it if i have the old data, and if i do that, i will be proving i am the real deal.
Or that all you’ve done is talk trash to me recently, only defending yourself but not your suggestion (cut down digits) anymore.
Show how you’ll cut down digits while leaving the balance the same?
Or what, you’ll have to care if it’s selling or buying price now? I thought your idea would applies universally since you make it sounds soooo easy.
1 silver.
(serious btw, the money drops here are akin to Diablo’s gold drops, just that you more or less automatically picks them up)
You’re probably just going to say something along the line of “now divide every number in the game by that one” which hardly cut down on digits you claimed to be excessive.
In which case, I’d be right, your suggestion is pointless.
"Its like you dont even read. I’m glad you dont study economics like I did because oh boy, things would be bad. Nominal value of money doesnt matter that much in terms of how good the economy is or how well we are. is 10g=1000g but the only different is that one has 2 more 0s, the real value will be the same… ie. theoretically you’d buy the same stuff with 10g that you’d buy with 1000g.
I understand this day and age everyone wants to talk about economics, but that’d be like me talking about engineering lol.
I’ll just quote @FatePGN on this:
“Regardless, 200k is not a lot of money, though it is a large number. Most of the basic gear costs around 1-2m. The more rare gear goes for around ~20m, and the absolute best gear is higher. You can tell 200k is not a lot of money, because when you try to upgrade gear around 100+, it costs over 100k around +4-5 (and they want +10 to be the max, yes I asked a developer). Also early attributes even at rank 3, like for Bokor, cost around 60-70k at lvl 1. The basic pet costs around 100k. 200k is not meant to be a lot of money. Don’t be intimidated by larger numbers, it’s still all relative.”
In your example, he’d have make 2k, basic gear would cost 10-20k, rare gear would cost 200k. Its still the same if you analyze what you could buy before and after the “change”. Illusion of change isnt the “most important” part of the game. Inflation is a different subject that changing the money system wont fix. Unlike real life, money generation is infinite in games and isnt regulated(only by time) so the only way of “fixing” or preventing inflation is to establish good money sinks that make huge amounts of money dissappear from the economy continiously, preserving the value of said coin."
If you wish to talk to me about economics, you are more than welcome to do so on this thread or through pms. Giving the “illusion” of value should not be considered the “most” important thing to do.
Dude, this is about psychology on how to make money LOOK more valuable.
I do agree that keeping the economy from inflation is the most important thing to do.
YEEEEEEY TO YOU! I do agree with you on that!
But, making money LOOK more valuable will only make the game better. Isn’t that the whole point of feeding back?
I know the healthyness of the brain is more important than how your face
looks. But does that mean you can only think about keeping your brain
healthy? Even though you have the chance of making your face look
better?
I tell you what:
We focus on making aconomy better AND on making money look more valuable! What about that?
My point is, the most important thing that should be tackled about economy is inflation.
Does it really make a difference to most people if they get 20 or 200 silver when 20 in your system could buy the same as 200 on the system we currently have(just an example). I’d guess no, hell I’d say people would rather enjoy big numbers so they can “feel” their “hardwork” paying off. Example: Would you rather work 8 hours a day and get 100,000$ or work 8 hours a day and get 100$(both are used to pay the same). Just for the sake of this example: keep in mind all the money is transfered directly to your bank account so you dont have to carry 100,000$ to your bank. Most people would actually prefer the big number because they’d “feel” they are being rewarded more.
There you go. And yeah I’ve studied economics for 5 years. If nominal value remains the same the effect of how the money looks is minimal. You’ll never get everyone to agree. A lot of people like big numbers, others like small numbers and people like me dont care. As long as the real value of money stays the same, how it is presented could matter less. Its like pple that cry about the current exchange rate of dollar for my country, it used to be 2.9PEN=1dolalr, now its 3.20PEN=1dollar, however the real value of money has stayed almost the same it was before. So the “economy” as a whole is still good, you can still buy the same stuff you were able to buy with the same amount of money.
Edit: I’ll just leave the argument at this point. If your idea is implemented but the real value of money is the same, idc tbh. I just dont want them to bother with something that doesnt even influence how anything inside the game works.
I’ve played both ragnarok onlines, and Idk where you are coming from when you say RO1 making money was “hard”(as in making 1M took too much time). Just leveling up from 1 to 99 pre classic(without even farming zeny in optimal spots) you could get… from 15-30M. As I’ve said earlier, I played classic(pre rebirth) low rates servers(from 1/1/1 to 3/3/3) and I made 50m in 1-2 weeks, just by being the first person to MvP/playing the market.
In 1/1/1 rates: Each sleeper is statistically worth… 1614 zeny, farm 100 and you have 161400 zeny, farm 1k and you have 1.6M farm 10k and you have 16M. Making 1.6m on this game took me more than killing 1k mobs, if that is what you are wondering.
I played ragnarok 1, the game is the same it was if you play a classic server(pre rebirth, the same updates RO had). Stop trying to use your poor knowledge at that time about a game to say that money was “hard to come by”. The only thing that made it hard was that people didnt know how to farm money. 100 raydrics= 30k(statistically, 1k raydrics is 300k, 10k is 3M, etc etc. This doesnt take into consideration: eluniums,raydric cards,two handed swords,katanas,chain mails or iron cains. If you consider “Ro1” only the first few days of RO when there was barely any content… well then idk what to tell you lol.
PS: I played iRO since beta. But I understand, you barely read facts and only want things your way, even tho it fixes nothing since it doesnt make it feel/look more valuable at all. It makes me feel I’m grinding 8 ■■■■■■■ hours just to get 10 silver lol.
The system we have rnow “feels” more rewarding towards the player(read my example of working 8 hours for 100,000$ vs 100$, both having the same real value). It makes you feel that the hardwork you put into it is being rewarded in a more benevolent/kind way.
@zeno_t I think what your trying to say is that, the less digits in the economy, psychologically, players will put more value into money and therefore the economy will do better? I’m not sure, but if that’s correct, let me know.
If that is correct, then I don’t think it’s true.
Regardless of how big the numbers are for money, players put value into money not by the amount of digits it has but:
The amount of time it took to earn that money.
The amount of difficulty it took.
The amount of time it takes to earn whatever a player wants to buy.
The difficulty of obtaining what a player wants to buy.
Those 4 factors are what I think most people think about when they consider money, how and when and why to spend it in a game, etc.
Not by how big of a number you have in terms of money.
For example, If I start playing the game, and I know that upgrading my gear to a safe upgrade level is going to cost me over 100k, the value of 100k is much lower for me then in a game where 100k buys you the best gear.
But that is also not true. 10 coins for a newbie sword vs 10000 coins for a newbie sword, doesn’t make it wrong. It just means there are larger digits in the 2nd games economy. But it’s relative.
In the first economy, 100,000 would be a fairly large number, while in the 2nd economy, 1,000,000 would be a fairly large number. In either case, there are larger numbers and both have numbers that can be "respected’ because the large numbers are still a hard task to obtain.
But that is also relative. If it takes me 10 minutes to get 10g, in one game, and 10 minutes to get, 10,000g in another game, players will probably put equal value to either because it’s not about the digits, its about the time it took to earn that money in this case. Which in turn, gives you the “sensation that it’s hard to get and hard to get means valuable”
Do you put personal value to how big a number is in games, or to how long it took you to earn that much money? If it’s the latter, then everything you’ve said so far really isn’t the case.
What I can agree with is that ToS does use large unnecessary numbers but the size of the numbers don’t have an influence on the economy. It’s how relative those numbers are to drops, amt of people farming, personal value to items, etc.
If you believe there is something wrong with the economy, it’s most definitely not because the digits are large, because currency is all relative. Look at world currency. 1500 yen is around $15 (probably less). But both buy you equivalent things. The value is not in the amount of digits either currency has, but how relative it is to how expensive the goods are, the production cost, etc.
Off topic for a bit, the Japanese Yen is a good example. When I went to Japan and exchanged for Yen, I was holding 10000¥ in one hand and thinking I’ve got quite a lot. It only took half a day for that to evaporate, especially when you’re having fun…
Then I went to the department stores, it didn’t take long for me to realise how expensive the country is, despite the currency being so weak against some of the major currencies
Well, its kinda futile to argue with someone who doesnt know much about economics. The reason “bitcoins” are valuable its not because they have small digits, its because something called exchange rate. I mean you could say the dolar is valuable because 1 dollar=3.25PEN(my country’s currency). That doesnt mean that if I did 0.1 dollar=0.325PEN the currency would become more “valuable”.
Getting new digits in RO was easy, I’ve played since the beta so stop spouting nonsense. I dont expect for you to understand me, but I hope IMC does not waste time on something as trivial as this that doesnt change currency value but only makes it look “smaller” because reasons.
ok so I am going to input my experiences into this matter as I believe my personal experience is very important. Why am I saying this?
First, there were only 9k players that got into the ICBT , of those only around 500 got higher levels then 41. Meaning that only 5% of the testers actually got to play around 10 hours of the game. Of those only 20 actually got above level 80.
I know every single person of those top 20, we were the ones that made the most amount of money and we were basically selling gears to each other as noone in the server had money or level to buy/use the gears we were dropping.
Basically everyone is basing the economy either on a server with huge xp rates(whose focus isnt economy) or in their short path to level 40(which is laughble at best, lv 40 is not even close to the money sinks). You can call me an ■■■■■■■ if you want, but if you really want to know how the game economy really is You should ask those top 20 players. This game has a huge level cap and even the top 20 were nowhere near that.
By the time I got to 82 I had around 2.5m in cash. With that I went to the auction house bought my gear which was expensive since there wasn’t much competition ( remember, only 20 players got here) and then tried upgrading them. Well that cost a lot of money , that plus gems Cost me around 1m. After that I went to upgrade my attributes and my money was already gone! All the money I’ve been grinding for the past 82 hours was more or less like this:
-20% I passed down to other players
-80% went down the sink.
One of the reasons why gear was so cheap,I believe its because the money sink in this game is just huge ( like others tried to tell you but you didnt listen).
Oh yeah,Even After spending all the money I had I was still nowhere near the best gear for my level or with the best attributes, I still had a lot of things I wanted/needed.
So saying money in this game is easy is quite relative, my experiences? It is not at all.
Now for you argument about the amount of 0’s. Well , I agree this game has a lot of 0’s, the very first mount which is around 10 hours of gameplay already cost more then 100k. Comparing that to other games ( like wow and gw2) 100k gold is a HUGE amount of money but that is very relative and I don’t really care.
This is a computer game, it doesnt matter how many zeroes the money currency has. What does matter however is that variables in a program obviously have a number limit and as long as players can’t reach that limit ( as that cripples the auction house) that value will never matter to players.
So all IMC really needs to do is make sure us players can’t reach the max amount of money our pockets and the auction house can hold or else the economy breaks.
Do you realize thats what almost every player playing the kcbt has said right? no need to bash them because of higher rates lol. Fate said, and I’m quoting, that he can make a lot of money in a short time yes, but meh/basic gear cost 2M, good gear costs 20-25M(depends on supply obs) and attributes end up costing a ■■■■ ton of money(as does upgrading high level weapons). So every player that has gotten to high enough level(even I felt all my money going into attributes/upgrading gear at 50) knows how the money sinks work on the game. Just saying I agree with you, but no need to bash KR players who are max level(people who do have more experience with the game than any icbt top player). If it wasnt your intention then sorry for my comment, but i find it silly to disregard what the most experienced players with ToS have to say.
That wasn’t my intention. I dont really know how the korean rates work, but we do know they are not normal. A player that puts 80+ hours will have very different experiences in the icbt and kr.
I realize kr players have more experience then us, but one thing none of them ever tested was our rates. That changes everything, it changes the money income per level, it changes what players focus ( since noone is going to get to lv 200 anyway). Being level 200 you stop progressing into higher and stronger content areas, also gearing yourself into the early game doesnt take priority as your gear changes too quickly. That kinda kills the early sinks and since players stop progressing at 200 they hit a wall where their attributes start costing more then it should for their level range money income. Anyways, its really hard to base the economy on a very high rate server, even if its lasting a long period of time.
My point is, even though our test was really short and only lasted 1 week , it was really important for a lot of things to be tested, money income progression being one of those.
