But the topic is about item costs being as low as possible, not monster drop rates. Monsters also do not drop several hundred silver at lower levels or we all would’ve had a companion to buy after a few hours of playing, which we did not.
By 20 i had around 500k i could of had a pet early if wanted one but i chose to dump my money in attributes instead. And your trying to use items that are not meant as a source of income to dismiss his idea which makes no sense. And were not talking about adjusting drop rates if something would be adjusted it would be the value they drop not the chance of it dropping.
It makes perfect sense, he wants the number of silver to be as low as possible to make each 1 silver feel more valuable right? Without going into decimals, which would be annoying as ■■■■, how else do you make the silver numbers for these misc items any lower than 1? You can’t, they are already low as possible.
Once again your looking at the items meant for crafting not selling as your determining factor. The amounts of silver dropped could easily be adjusted the problem would be adjusting everything elses cost to match after. Which has been discussed further above if you want to go read about it.
Once again, the way i understood the OP is that he wants to scale the silver for EVERYTHING in the game, just to make the value of the silver seem higher than it is, WITHOUT changing the actual value of anything (this means if you limit sell amounts to 1, many crafting and misc items gain value compared to other items which will have lower selling amounts). Read this first post and his replies to the topic again.
I understand i have been here from the beginning what im tellin you is those crafting items are a invalid example because they were never meant to be used as a source of income AKA your example is invalid find a new one.
Dude, if England manages to keep the digits low and having one of the world’s most balanced economies. I just proved you wrong about saying that it isn’t possible for tos to keep it’s digits low and having balance at the same time.
And what’s up with that link? I asked for a list with the items prices (buy and sell), rewards ETC…
There are MANY things to be changed in ToS’ economy, cutting digits down isn’t for making a better economy, it’s just a psycologic strategy to make money LOOK more valuable, making players desire it more.
Many digits IN THE LONG RUN make money look cheap. If you played ragnarok 2 you will know what i mean.
This is the opposite of what you said earlier:
@thebloodyaugust I’ll use your example here:
Right here you say “Earning rates are to stay the same” and “He just wants lower values so money feels more valuable”. I’m saying its not possible without increasing the earning rates of items that currently sell for 1. Give me an example where his logic of “lowering the values” of things will not change the current earning rates. No item is invalid, ALL items are valid when you want to lower the value to the point where 1 silver is big amount of currency.
The slower people doesn’t get that, in order to make a LEGO car, you have to put all the pieces together. All the slowest people see is: “HEY!!! That store fooled me, this isn’t a car, these are just a bunch of square little pieces!! How is this a car?!”
But here we go for the hundred time, try to understand now son.
- 1st step:
Making desireble stuff in game. Awesome and durable, (just like RO old times)
- 2nd step:
Making a good money sink, but without pushing it. It has to be natural. To figure out how, looking back and copying ragnarok 1 early days is an option, or using some creativety to make new good strategies.
- 3rd step:
Once people have a good reason to look for money, creating oportunity for services will bring the game some spark. Example:
factor1: Kafra teleporting was very expensive and most of the times there were no teleports to many places.
factor2: there was a hidden NPC in geffen who would sell blue gems.
factor3: An acolyte could make a portal using a blue gem.
factor4: an acolyte would buy a blue gem from a local mechant and sell a portal to another player, trying to get money to buy his items or just for saving he could buy something later.
NOTE: There are a lot more factors in this example, for instance: the journey of the merchant to get those blue gems with the discount. Thing is, it was all needed and it made sense. Ragnarok had a very valuable money, people would have great adventures to get money, exp and items.
- 4th step:
The “better” is never too much. Cutting down digits would make money look more valuable and real. Not just some easy2get fake game money.
In ragnarok 1 old times:
HEY!! I HAVE 1.000.000 !!!
In ragnarok 2, ragnarok 1 shitty high rate servers, and other shitty games where you can get lots of digits easy:
hey, guess what… i have 1.000.000… meh…
PS: But hey, let’s not forget that there are many other steps, i only used those as an example to make things clearer for the close minded people.
With the taxes, the flow of money finally comes to a loop also. Money is made by said government and distributed to those loyal to that government or country, money flows through the people as a form of “Favor trading” and eventually with taxes it makes it back to the government. The government can help reduce or increase inflation by disappearing some of that money out of the market. Unless you want the government every time it needs to deflate the economy to go straight into your bank account and flat out take chunks of money, the increase or decrease in taxes help put the money back into the hands that made it and then the hand that made it just burn that money or pretend it doesn’t exist. Either way the process helps discontinue extra money in the economy which makes prices deflate. In other words, taxes are important to regulate inflation not just “feed” the government more power. Unfortunately, most governments suffer from internal corruption so a lot of these processes are not done at optimal values.
Edit: There is a few other methods that governments use to help keep their economy stable but i forgot most of my economics education.
Well if it is costumes, i think people will still be appealed by it. I mean when you have all your gear and got nothing to waste your money on, looking badass comes naturally to the hardcore players and casuals alike. So in my opinion if costume are available for in game money temporarily, it will also make people strive to make money and spend time in the game just to keep up with the maintenance costs. In essence it will do 2 things: Keeping money out of the economy and keeping people playing to a certain extent.
… That is just an exaggerated example we don’t literally need it to be 1 coin per monster or 10 for a sword. Its a exaggerated example to display the objective.
I get the Idea of OP, but in the end isn’t as stated before a subjective thought? If an individual only played games with what Large Numbers wouldn’t that be the normal instance for them and see it as not a problem. The numbers in ToS are not all that crazy in terms of size, and value is given by an individual. You made a good suggestion, not denying that it was not, but surely seems like a lot, and i mean a lot of reworking, re programming and adjusting for something that would not effect the actual economic balance of the game. Nor without specific numbers can IMC truly tell if all that hard work, changing practically everything in the game will actually give them a large player base then the trouble is worth, or the players they might lose because the opposite effect was given some players were not happy with such small numbers. Making sure since some might just skim through the post, not saying OP has/had a bad dumb idea, just logically and realistically speaking will the end result justify the means it took to get there, from a working and adjusting perspective.
You are full of bullsh1t ain’t you? Now you are finding excuse even for that?
Ok, what about making ToS’ money something like western currency with the 3 digits? “1,00” it would still cut down the excessive digits drasticly and there would be balance.
I never said that, because i akways kept in mind that maybe there would be the need of “cents” just like the fragmentation of bit coins. Its you who didn’t think outside the box and assumed yourself there couldn’t be anything less than the 1 unit.
What i wanted all along wasf for money to be more like real western money, so how in hell would i “assume” that? You are full of crap dude, seriously.
Dude, now are saying i didn’t even play the game? Dude, that’s just sad, you have some real mental illness.
Go into my profile, i always made pretty clear that i didn’t get a key so played in my friends’ account, go on check it. I never had the game in the computer i am using.
Why would i even bother trying to improve something i didn’t even know existed?! Because… If i wasn’t there, i would know nothing about it. You are sou freaking dumb dude…
But hey, none of this is important. I never ask you for that program, I ASKED YOU A SIMPLE LIST. So since you have the game on your computer, and you say that this program really works, why don’t you show it to me that this isn’t another of your bullsh1ts, use that program yourself and send me a list in a WORD document with all the prices and rewards, so i can start working.
Unless you don’t have the game yourself or that program doesn’t really works. If you don’t have the game according to YOUR crapy logic, you weren’t even there in the first place. If that’s true, how the hell can you be here discussing with me about something you don’t know?
Dude, less digits always makes the money look more valuable. Doesn’t matter if you are use to or not.
Let’s keep in mind that this in not an asian server, the server will be for western people. Less digits will make money look more real.
If the money looks more real, it will look more valuable. It’s just gonna happen…
Ok dude, i don’t care, just use that miracle program of yours on the
freaking game and quit the bullsh1t, send me the freaking WORD list with
the information necessary so i can start doing the job you asked me to.
And if you don’t send me the bricks so i can build the house you asked me to, keep saying bullsh1t like ToS CAN’T avoid the “Big numbers syndrome” will only show how weak minded for understanding you are.
But you know what… I think you like big numbers. I think you are
the kinda noobtard who would rather have 100 individual dollar bills
than one 100 dollar bill, i think you are sick man. Seriously. Just send
that list so i can do the “compiling” you asked me to
I just find it hilarious you constantly refer to ragnarok which post episode… 8 the zeny situation inflated out of control because guess what, the game had no money sinks at all outside buying blue gems and white pots. Or you perhaps just offhand forgot that it costed around 1.3m to rebirth. Or to actually mock your example, equipment was over 80,000~100,000 price point for some items from npcs for mid-level gear.
And no, you cannot avoid big number syndrome in online games. I can explain it in a very simple reason why; Value of progress.
The money you obtain will always be the same money, it won’t increase or decrease in value, this is the first thing a lot of MMO’s have been copying from WoW, splitting the currency up so the numbers stay down but it’s still the same.
For example; yes grinding for 10,000 in an hour to buy a 10,000 sounds bad, but you WILL hit that point at some point in the game regardless.
It would be completely unrewarding for a player to gain less than 1 in currency to a play for killing the weakest mob once, so we use that as a base. Lets say your average player kills 60~70 monsters an hour. That would be 60~70 of the currency on the LOWEST and WEAKEST monster in the game.
Now what about when you hit level 5… well you wouldn’t want to get the exact same value as killing a level 1 money wise, otherwise if you wanted to save up for a new item you’d go back to killing the lowest exp monster… thus making levelling slower. This is not an option as it would turn a LOT of players off, so hey lets increase the money monsters drop every couple of levels so now at level 5 you’re killing 60~70 monsters an hour for 3 coin each… well now that’s grown from 60~70 coins to 180~210 coins… By level 10 it’s up to 8 because any less and the player would feel unrewarded for progressing.
By this logic at level 100 each monster you kill will give 100~120 coins a kill. That 60~70 an hour average just shot up to 6,000~8,000 an hour.
This is the BARE MINIMUM amount of increase in currency even a hardcore player would accept. Even then, people would complain how hard it is to get currency, so rather than a flat number it goes up a %… thus to keep the NORMAL and AVERAGE player happy, it’s closer to 400~500 coins at 100. so give or take 30,000 an hour.
Currency growth and gain as you grow in level is mandatory for players to feel rewarded for leveling. If the currency growth is too low, so too would NPC purchasable items. This means a player who relies on drop equipment would be able to purchase from NPCs the highest and most expensive items at a level much lower than intended.
TL;DR You cannot apply lower numbers = more valuable currency in a game which unlike the real world doesn’t have a finite number of coins to keep how much a single person owns but instead an infinite and constantly growing number. If you try you will end up with a real world situation of a few super-rich players who have all the best items and second-rate players who can’t afford anything people sell. The entire idea is anti-fun.
P.S: Also on an unrelated topic for a completely unrelated game since you brought it up.
Ragnarok economy was completely bloated and out of control by 2006 (2 years after launch) due to heavy botting. Don’t refer to a game with a horrible market as a “more ideal version” because as early as 2007 (3 years after launch) zeny was near worthless to the richest players and they had hit max carry-able on at least one character and just inflated more past that. You admitted yourself you played illegal low-rate servers instead of official, most of which most likely shut down before they hit that point or had extra money sinks into the game to get beyond that. ToS isn’t a tiny private server with sub-1000 player base which helped keep the economy low because of less incoming currency.
This entire topic is from someone who has no idea what they are talking about, and suggests something that will just frustrate your average player, increase the amount of ‘gold bots’ and vastly boost the amount of people purchasing from shady sites to get more in-game currency.
That or someone who runs a gold-seller site.
Ikr I recently played a classic(pre rebirth RO server) low rate and I made 50M in 3 weeks by playing the market and being the first to MvP lol.
- At first you show yourself a person who don’t like the idea of leaving all the work for someone else:
Well Mr. Joe hypocrit pants, isn’t that what you are doing right now?
first you ask me:
I ask you to send me the trivial information i need to attend YOUR REQUEST,
I don’t have the game in this computer, i won’t be able to extract ToS’ database out of my ■■■■ you know?
If you think i am some kind of god, you are wrong again. I don’t do miracles.
Well, Mr. Joe six pack hypocrit pants, where is that carrying guy who don’t want to leave all the work to other people hahahah, you amuse me.
how is that “spoonfeed” if when i have the database information NEEDED, i will spend about 6 hours attending to YOUR request of compiling the data?
Well Joe… your lack of intelect continues to surprise me, how far that void inside your skull can go? I bet you can fit a fleet of space ships in there.