Tree of Savior Forum

Earth Tower - The Overpriced Raid for Rapiers

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#1

Earth Tower has long been seen as tedious by the community. The 50 minute clear time for a full Solmiki run was bogged down by 4 floors that require the party to kite mobs for 5 minutes. Even if you were prepared to slog through the tedium, there was a monetary investment to consider, and with the recently proposed changes to Earth Tower, it is time to take another look at that potential investment and how it could be made worth doing for players who can’t quite afford or complete Velcoffer yet.

The proposed changes promise a dungeon in line with previous r8 but ignore the fact that players can blaze passed r8 into Velcoffer territory and more more importantly that a Solmiki 1h weapon costs ~170M+ in re-roll costs. The Solmiki weapons also bolster fewer sockets than their Velcoffer upgrades which costs ~103M in re-rolls. For the price of a Solmiki 1h you could buy a Velcoffer 1h and reach transcendence stage 6. The changes proposed do not address the re-roll fees and therefor leave Solmiki in a bad place.

Solmiki Weapons can be divided into 4 categories. I’ve broken them down below with a brief summary of what lands them in their respective category.

God Tier items retain their contention for BIS despite being r8 gear in the r10 meta (yes I know r10 isn’t a thing in rebuild)

God Tier

Solmiki Rapier

Utility items are good for a swap and/or for niche use. The effect on the Two-handed Mace has a fantastic debuff for bossing albeit with a long CD and short up-time. The Shield is likewise a contender for BIS but misses the God Tier status due to the loss of 2 sockets and lower defence which hurts it when Hard Shield is the signature skill of the Peltasta.

Utility

Solmiki Two-handed Mace
Solmiki Shield

Relics are weapons that may have seen use pre-rebuild. These weapons are now overpriced and under-powered for any number of reasons. As a general rule the lines on these weapons are stuck in pre-rebuild, not plentiful enough, or not cost-efficient when decent primus exist for the 330-360 grind. There is no reason to use these weapons at any point.

Relics

Solmiki Bow
Solmiki Crossbow
Solmiki Dagger
Solmiki Mace
Solmiki Musket
Solmiki Pike
Solmiki Rod
Solmiki Spear
Solmiki Staff
Solmiki Sword
Solmiki Two-handed Sword

Dead Content are the remains of items that were once contenders for BIS but fell victim to rebuild. The pistol and cannon were previously subweapons. In the change to rebuild they were given no love. The pistol and cannon retain a single socket. While not great for the pistol, this kills the cannon dead beyond any other weapon as cannons now have 5 sockets. Far from a saving grace, at least the cannon is still priced as a subweapon.

Dead Content

Solmiki Pistol
Solmiki Cannon

So what can we do to fix this? Adding sockets across the board seems unreasonable. The rapier would no longer be in the discussion for BIS on Fencer, it would be the clear winner. The Solmiki Shield would be a must have for any Peltasta or Rodelero, nevermind builds that take both. Solmiki Pistol and Musket could remain viable in rebuild for 390 characters. Nerfing existing weapons isn’t quite palatable either. Adjusting the number of essence required would change the numbers of weeks to obtain items without further fixes. So my proposed list of changes…

I would suggest adjusting a full 40F cube re-roll from its current 8,820,000 down to 4,900,000 (the current 20F re-roll cost. In line with this all lower cubes would need to be reduced as well). This price reduction alone is not enough to fix anything. I’d go a step further.

  • adjust a full 40F cube re-roll from its current 8,820,000 down to 4,900,000
  • adjust all two-handed weapons to 5 sockets (3 for weapons with +x to skill levels)
  • adjust all one-handed weapons to 3 sockets (2 for weapons with +x to skill levels)
  • change the number of essence required for all one-handed and subweapons to 95
  • change the number of essence required for all two-handed weapons to 180
  • revisit spr/dex lines on weapons, review there roll in applicable builds and adjust accordingly

Constructive feedback is appreciated.

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#2

Just to add. Solmiki 1h Sword always had 3 gem sockets and in terms of raw attack it’s only second to velcoffer. But not many use 1h swords in general as a main weapon anyway, they are mostly a stat stick for scouts.

But I actually like the idea to reduce the cost for obtaining miki gear, didn’t even paid attention that getting velco is way more cheaper nowadays, I’m surprized.

#3

Already planned, coming soon to Ktos, and announced today:

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#4

These are both pulled from my original post-

and with the recently proposed changes to Earth Tower, it is time to take another look at that potential investment and how it could be made worth doing

The changes proposed do not address the re-roll fees and therefor leave Solmiki in a bad place.

I believe the changes might lead to an influx of accessories. I could even see people running for a cheaper alt set like leather for PvE while they main Velcoffer plate for PvP but nobody is going to run ET twice a week for over 4 months so they can spend 170M+ on re-rolls for an outdated weapon. I’m not advocating for Solmiki to be as good as Velcoffer but I do think it should be a viable step for players before Velcoffer which it will not be even with the proposed changes.

EDIT: I added a proposed change about spr/dex to my original post

#5

ohh sorry, I did a fast read, but I think will be cheap than now.

#6

We’re making progress. With this change yet to hit servers I’m wondering if it will apply as it reads-

  • Sub-weapons for 48 essence (4-5 cubes 35,280,000-44,100,000) (Velcoffer equivalent 103,194,000)
  • 1h weapons for 90 essence ( 8-10 cubes 70,560,000-88,200,000) (Velcoffer equivalent 103,194,000 9 cubes)
  • 2h weapons for 105 essence (9-12 cubes 79,380,000-105,840,000) (Velcoffer equivalent 137,592,000 12 cubes)

If the changes are applied as such you will see sub-weapons completed in a single week, 1h weapons in 2 weeks, and 2h weapons in 2 weeks with good luck on re-rolls or 3 with poor luck. Other problems remain unaddressed.

Solmiki Cubes are still 77%(1h) and 70%(2h) of the price of Velcoffer, take the same amount of time, and have fewer sockets. Sub weapons may be substantially cheaper but still have a pitiful 1 socket.

Further changes are needed.

#7

With how easy it would be to get Legend gear in the future (Not that I think it’s gonna be a super high drop rate or anything, but in comparison to current Legend gear) it’s kind of dumb that Solmiki and Lolopanther haven’t been condensed already. If it were me. I would take the 5 floors that I think represent Solmiki and Lolopanther best and turn them into their own dungeons.

Comleting the 5 floors would reward 1 type of essence(1 for each), which could be spent on any of the gears. All current essences would be converted into the new essences.

Cubes would cost significantly less to reroll like 500k-1 mill per try and would have a high chance to reward selection boxes for the full items.

The main purposes for Solmiki right now aside from the shield which goes good for some swordsman builds, are either Weapon Skins (Which should not be that hard to obtain) or Enchant Jewels, which should be hard to obtain but that’s not even guaranteed for Solmiki right? So instead of having players dismantle items worth 20-60 mill + many hours of effort for nothing, 90% of the time lower the cost and effort of the gear.

As cool as it would be to try and make the weapons relevant again, I don’t think it’s worth it since you have to compensate players who don’t have the potential on their old Solmiki and it’s still not gonna be worth all the time spent even if you do. The best solution is to make the content intended for players 90 levels lower than you, feel like it is intended for players 90 levels lower than you, 330 players aren’t rich, they’re not strong, Solmiki is not 330 content in Rebuild. It should be.

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#8

Suggestion: They can also give the player to chose… like a cube with in a cube. Like when you get a Solmiki/Lolopanter cube, when you open it you can choose betweeen the normal Solmiki/Lolo boss essence cube (which contains 1-6 boss essence) or a “Lesser” Velc cube which only contains 1 velc essence.

This way people that Run solely velcoffer raid will have a reason to run with people that wants/needs ET gears, Giving life to a dead raid.

#9

With enough additional changes I think this is a good idea but having a low level dungeon (Lolo) isn’t terrible- See me ‘more content’ point later.

This works in conjunction with your first point and I would definitely support something like this especially as the floors never really get more difficult. Pre-RE and RE the different between F21 and F36 or the boss on F25 and F40 are comparable strength. In RE Grim was actually the easiest boss. We will see if this changes with the proposed ET changes.

I fully support this. I think the prices can remain as is if they change the weapons and have a chance to pull a clean weakon(again see my more content point coming up) but lowering the re-roll cost, maybe not to 1M, but something, is needed.

I have no problem with weapon skins being tedious and expensive.

Making the content relevant again is important though. ToS has so little content outside of events. People have their weekly Legend Raids/Irredian and then have to wait for daily TBL, Gem Feud, or whatever event is on-going. Dev time has already been invested on Earth Tower, if they can be a viable alternative or viable stepping stone before 420, than why not?

~Azura Skyy

#10

As it stands, ET/Velcoffer are split so you can do both. No reason not to do both in the proposed updates since a Solmiki run is only 5 floors and should be quick. I guess I’m unsure if Legend Raids all share the 5 entries in the Ktos changes or if it is 5 each.

~Azura Skyy

#11

Well I know that, but… Some people just wants the latest and best things. Sure Miki equips are still good but what if I just want to get Velc items.

This is the same thing that happened when Velcoffer raid came. The number of Solmiki runners in our server plummeted to like 3 or 4 parties. Why? Because they all went to get Velcoffer. even when the raid count was divided nobody still run solmiki. (except that occasional 1party I guess)

What I’m trying to get at is this: Many people want to invest in (at least) the latest and best weapons and armors. Sure people may want to still run Solmiki for their other characters (including me) but when no one is running it then why bother?

Giving people the option to get velcoffer essence in the Solmiki raid will give some people that only run velcoffer to also run ET which in return helps some of the people that wants to run ET for Solmiki/Lolo gears. Everyone wins and ET is not a dead content again.

#12

I don’t think ET should offer Velcro fragments as a possible reward. I’d be open to alternatives like legend reroll vouchers or the new Legendary Raid Stones being added as a reward for those that want to help their party and don’t want ET loot.

I don’t mind how they fix ET as long as it addresses one or both of the following:

  • Make ET weapons viable alternatives to other legend gear and adjust pricing/stats accordingly
  • Keep ET as a low level raid but make the items worth the time/money investment (lower cost/add sockets)

The biggest problem for me even with all proposed changes by IMC is that they will still cost 70% of what a Velcoffer weapon does, but it will have fewer sockets, harder to find party, and outdated before you can acquire enough cubes (2 weeks)

~Azura Skyy

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#13

Good Idea! Might I even say its better than mine. I can compromise with this. :star_struck:

1 Like
#14

I’ll go for solmiki pistol in the future just for that +2 limacon weapon swap.