Well since I am curious.
Where did you get your numbers from argument!!
Value of str = 1*(chance not to crit) + 2.5*(chance to crit)
Value of dex = ((chance to crit after) - (chance to crit before)) * (physical attack*0.5+critical attack)
Or something like that. Putting the dex formula to a spreadsheet would suck, with all those variables in it.
You must also note that a lot of enemys have leather armor on late game, wich archers should get +50% bonus damage against.
The problem is that most of archers dont go for con even on late game, or they just put only 20 ~ 30 points into con when they should have put around 50 ~ 60 points into con. That + hp from hair acessory + max plate armor mastery and good plate set + the good CC from some archers ranks = durable archer. The problem is when you only got dps ranks like ranger c3 and fletcher c3 and no defensive / CC / utility skill⌠Ofc they will die a lot./
Edit: Bonus stats points plays a big deal at end game:
1 ~ 50 total stats Bonus every 5th stat point
51 ~ 150 total stats Bonus every 4th stat point
151 ~ 300 total stats Bonus every 3rd stat point
301 ~ 500 total stats Bonus every 2nd stat point
500+ total stats Bonus every stat point
So, If you have 301 STR and 30 dex and got 10 points to use:
all in str: 316 STR (10 points + 5 extra bonus points)
all in dex: 42 DEX ( 10 points + 2 extra points) ====> you missed 3 extra poits. Yes. You just traded 15 STR total points for 12 DEX total points.
First paragraph with a link. Play with the numbers if youâd like.
Basically a full CON build is about 70% of the damage of a full STR build. Meaning you get most the damage in the game from equipments + skill damage instead of stats.
Literally any combo of STR/DEX is fine at end game. Optimally you get slightly more STR than DEX like Iâve been saying, but there is merit to full DEX due to PVP and evasion scaling if you are too lazy to min max yourself.
I am personally going for 2:1:1 and dumping my extra points into DEX. I think all the people who go 20-30 CON are gonna die and be useless.
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Heh you shouldnât look at it that way. If you have 301 STR and 42 DEX, you should look at how much each point of STR is worth vs how much each point of DEX is worth. Since more damage makes more crit scale better and more crit makes more damage scale better.
Iâd imagine that at 316 vs 42âŚthe 12 points of DEX might just scale better than 15 points of STR.
@EternalRift
Impossible. 15 > 12.
âScales betterâ is a variable concept, I mean, If you already got you critical rate from any source, you are fine with it. So 15 points into STR is just better than 12 points into DEX in a scenario with a good critical rate. Even if you need that critical rate, You can take it from hair acessory, for ex, or just with gems. Loosing this 3 bonus points maybe is not a big deal, but loosing 25 points or more after 100+ points investimentâŚ
Prove it using math, like you made rift prove it. I gave you some formulas. Is 15 str better than 12 dex? Try it, show your work and we might agree with you.
His spreadsheet, by the way:
copy it to your own google drive and youâll be able to edit it.
@dmhamilt Its here:
http://wiki.tosbase.com/wiki/Stats#STR_.28Strength.29
Look what 15 STR gives to you and what 12 dex gives to you and make your conclusion. My point is the 3 extra stats points in that â301 STR and 30 dex and got 10 points to useâ. Its a specific scenario, I agree, and it may not fit in your build, but in that case, is just better go for 15 points in STR.
TL/DR bonus stats should not be ignored in STR x DEX, and a lot of ppl just forget about it.
I will look His spreadsheet. Edit: Looks like he didnt put the bonus stats into the formula, so its not acurate, or Im wrong? @EternalRift
He does. Theres a Total and a Base section for stats.
But the thing about 15 str vs 12 dex being unclear⌠dex scales off of total physical attack. The more str you have, the better your weapon, the better dex scales. You really need to do the math behind it to be sure.
Primary Stats Total Base
Str 263 247
Con 1 1
Int 1 1
Spr 1 1
Dex 158 158
158 points used on dex IS NOT = to 158 DEX. Looks like something is not acurate here.
This math will not be acurate anyway cuz you have to do it for every monster in the game. With a high critical resist mob dex will be more importat, but with low critical resist, the flat damage and critical damage from STR will be better.
And the worst problem here: We dont know for sure if there is any critical rate or critical CHANCE cap. And its 100% safe that str will allways gives you the damage and the critical damage.
If you read my thread, you will see that Iâve spent A LOT of time reviewing the formulas and making sure they are as correct as possible. Stats are input through using the stat calculator and then input into the sheet.
FLokiâŚ12 DEX is worth more than 15 STR if you already have a lot of damage but low crit rate. If you have 1 million damage and 0% crit rate, then each point of crit you get is worth more than each point of damage you get. Extreme example, but easy to see.
You need to prove that the percent gain is better instead of hand waving like I see everyone do. I got a lot of hate in my thread earlier with hand waving and people have shut up now.
Just generalize it to a random normal mob of level 280/285 or a random boss of level 280/285.
Bonus stats is what makes going all into STR insane. Just get Crit rate gems on your weapon and some extra crit rate from bracelets or something.
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Youâre right, this is not made with the level/circle scaling included. This was intended to be used with stats taken directly out of the character sheet ingame.
Looks like we agree at some point, but your example is realy extreme ^^
anyway from here : http://www.tosbase.com/tools/stat-calculator/
158 dex points = 206 dex total poits (or 197 gained points), not 158 total dex like it shows on your spreadsheet. Anyway is a good work, I can just put the missing points, etc, and it can work well.
@dmhamilt I see, but in a long run it lacks from a planning perspective.
2:1 seems best on paper but you need to consider how hard it is to get a decent crit rate as you level, both your level and enemyâs crit resistance affects your actual crit rate and judging from the crit rate formula, you need absurd amount of crit rate to reach even a decent chance. I donât see how 2:1 distribution gonna fare well later on.
People might say, hey Iâm doing fine with 2:1 but thatâs because they are most likely still at lv200 below.
You use the stat calc and then input it into the sheet. I seem to recall 240 STR was 501 STR, so you input 501.
STR/DEX is the best way to maximize your damage output IMO.
Looking at the stats without any weapon factoring into it⌠we can calculate damages based on your raw attack power.
Level 100 Rank 4 Swordsman
- 75 STR / 75 DEX
P.ATK - 175
CRIT.ATK - 75
CRIT.RATE - 75
Total damage: (P.ATK * 1.5 [CRIT.RATE] + CRIT.ATK)
= 337.5 DMG w/ CRIT
- FULL STR
P.ATK - 269
CRIT.ATK - 169
CRIT.RATE - 6 (0% chance of crit)
= 269 DMG w/o CRIT
- FULL DEX
P.ATK - 110
CRIT.ATK - 10
CRIT.RATE - 127
Total damage: (P.ATK * 1.5 [CRIT.RATE] + CRIT.ATK)
= 175 DMG w/ CRIT
As you can see, going pure STR has the highest consistent damage. DEX yields the lowest damage output. Even if you crit, you are doing less damage than a full STR build. A hybrid of STR and DEX yields more potential damage.
Now that isnât to say DEX builds are bad. They definitely scale better with classes that have high damage dealing skills, but your basic attack damage will be utter crap compared to a STR build. A STR build has very high basic attack damage, but their skills are likely never going to crit.
If youâre a class that relies a lot on skills, DEX is a good build. You give up basic attack damage for skill damage.
If youâre a class that does a lot of basic attacking, STR is better for you. This tends to fall under tank classes or classes with limited move sets or high cooldowns.
Weapons factor into this mix quite a bit so it can make either build better depending on the type of equips you use.
Thereâs really no wrong way about going with what youâre doing, just realize that the build youâre doing has different results depending on the type of class you choose.
A full DEX Peltasta for an example is probably not the best build you could do. The safest builds to do are STR builds. DEX is good, but too much of it while sacrificing attack is a bit pointless unless you have equips that boost CRIT.ATK very high. Even then, CRIT.ATK is just an addition to your damage formula in the same sense how concentrate and blessing work. That extra 75 DMG added onto the end of your attack doesnât affect too much if your skills are hitting over 2k of damage. Because there isnât much of a difference between a skill hitting 2,000 damage and 2,075 damage. If you can somehow balance high CRIT.ATK with DEX⌠that would likely be the ultimate build.
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At level 600 at 2:1 ratio youâd have 380 crit rate before buffs or equipment.
Level 10 gems are +87/93 crit rate each. Say we have three of them, for 267.
So 647 before other equipment. lets discard all that other stuff.
My archer2 uses Swift step, its 808.
Against some theoretical 0 crit defense target thatâll be around 56% crit chance.
So, not that bad, all things considered. Youâd probably want to roll for crit rate on your hats and gear, or find a chronomancer to quicken you still.
Weapons and additional sources of damage is a major consideration to think of when thinking of STR/DEX. Higher tier weapons and enhancements push you toward more DEX. I think a +15 Lolopanther Bow would greatly favor more DEX as it has over 900 some attack that directly scales damage instead of say a Didel Grand Cross which would have 550ish damage with a 278 Mana Mana that doesnât scale damage.
That extra 350 attack would push the stat ratio a lot toward DEX, but you really shouldnât base your build around having a +15 BiS item that comes from end game that not even Koreans consistently clear.
80% crit rate from Sneak Hit + my few innate crit rate as an Archer, I still seeing alot of white damage when attacking Dullahan behind.
56% is bad already by itself not to mention considering thats against a 0 crit defense target. Crit rate on hats are horrible, max is around 15 which youâll rarely see.