Str vs Dex
Consistent vs Inconsistent damage
I’d say before lvl 200 dex offers more damage, but later on mobs will start having a fair ammount of critical resistance.
320 critical rate. Every archer need that at lvl 280. After that point STR > DEX for dps, unless your target have more than 100 critical resist.
Skills like sneak hit and +25% swift step don’t apply here. (sneak hit offers alone all the critical chance that you need, and swift step scales better with more critical rate, so with sneak less critical rate is needed, and with swift more critical rate is needed cuz you gain even more thanks to the +25% bonus.)
PS: source on sub reddit tree of savior, too lazy to link it here, but it is not an outdated info.
My big issues with the whole debate is trying to min max a dumb thing to do with us only being at lv 280 when proposed max lv is 600 x.x
Mind you the majority of my dmg comes for autos then I use skills off cd for the brust inbetween RS cd and so on. So the split in my dmg is there so this leads me to wonder what has more weight in the long run. Snipe can dmg cap at 99,999 on a 20 sec cd. Durring teh duration of my rs I can excueded that number and then some due to buffs and so on. So shoudl my build be situated around my autos primarily or is teh dmg from multi, snipe, head, and cover something that needs to be taken into consideration as well.
What is the key point I shoudl be focusing on?
But did that consider the fact that STR has ridiculous growth?
I still don’t believe “every archer” needs that. Wugushi poisons never crits, I don’t see them benefitting alot from having high DEX.
Basically all the math i’d seen is not considering buffs of percentage crit chance or crit dmg. In these cases, any buff to improve your damage or you crit chance favors a dex build (not a full one), since getting more dmg helps you reach the point where you can start building dex. I’m talking about the buffs who are aplied to your basic damage, so they are doubled with a crit. Also if you have percentage crit chance (like swift step of sneaky hit, as mentioned) you be getting more status from the points you put in dex than and will reach the curve faster. Although, I still think the hybrids builds are the best and safer options. You can switch in the middle game to adapt to your playstyle.
Well I am currently 120 str 60 con 250 dex. A bit unsure if I went to overbord or what I woudl be doing next lv 255. I have a restset if need be I might need to start pump into str over now I could only assume?
Some of the recent posters are new, so I’d hazard that this needs a repost.
[https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1s_Tkib5vkU6jZwH7iJw6mvT2CaORAs0LkX7rQENxapA/edit#gid=0]
This is a spread sheet comparing str/dex ratios at various values on a level 280 character with consideration for skill damage.
TLDR if your normal methods of attacking are over ~3000 damage before strength is involved, you probably want a dex heavy build.
1 Like
well in most games a critrate above 30 % is considered pretty high …
Especially if u can work on the critdmg multiplier …
This one is here pretty low but at level 600 its possible that our critattack will reach better values as the 50% bonus …
Yes I did and they “the math guys” did.
At this point everyone knows that. But what a freaking wugushi c2 can do over a musk / can / fletcher c3?
STR gains 10% retroative bonus every rank, thats it.
Dunno if you are aware of this, but you can gain 180+ critical attack, 120+ phy attack from hair acessorys ( all the 3) alone, while you can only roll around 15 critical rate at max in one of them.
As you level up, you realize that critical rate is way more rare than critical damage on items too…
@Dark-Majin Yep I agree with that. Also, take note that 320 crt rate gives you around 32% crt chance on a enemy with 100 ~ 110 critical resist at lvl 280.
yeah but if u have too look right now critical attack is not worth that much …
its maybe not bad for multi hits but the higher the base dmg the better the 50% bonus and the worse the critical attack.
Hmmm. I guess it really still depends on builds. Classes with high modifiers would always get better results from having high STR too. I know this well since I was a full DEX Scout C3 back on CBT2 until I tried going for 2:1 build and it improved my DPS significantly even if I lose some crit rate.
You were the one who linked me that stat info where if you add 1 stat point on STR, you’ll get 2 STR instead if you’re at 500 STR already. Don’t know why you stopped considering this. Even on my Rogue, I’m already at the 400+ values and each added point is adding 2.something already.
Hair accessories enchants will fall off quickly so it’s not really that much relevant to stat distribution which scales as you level. Even now, my Split Arrow is almost at 10k and that +180 critical attack is just 1.8% damage increase which is pathetic IMO.
I changed my mind after I realize how rank 6 and 7 class got in base attack on skills. They just alredy got that much of base skill damage, pushing for more critical rate looks better in a long run. 30% + critical CHANCE is what you should aim.
My point on hair enchants:
You must test this by yourself. I do have now 185 critical attack and around 70 phy attack on all my hair acessorys and I can say that: the damage you gain is insane, even on my rogue it pushes my barrage damage to another lvl, and its better on my flechter, as It have so many hits per sec on all its spams.
That alone is around 70 ~ 150 STR pure value on hair acessorys.
At the same time, with 15 x 3 critical rate hair acessorys you got only 45 DEX pure value. You can see that now?
Yes, STR do scale better but with insane amount of critical attack from ITEMS (cheap ones like SEIMOS CROSSBOW FOR EX) plus the insane value of phy attack (40 ~ 45 on each hair acessory) AND critical attack (I got one hair acessory with 63 critical attack, my best roll) you will sit with 120+ extra phy attack and 180+ extra critical attack just in hair acessorys. Put seimos crossbow and now you have extra 303 (180+123 from seimos crossbow I think?)critical attack. fraking 303 man.
1 Like
What I learned on the other thread, about how Crit Attack, Elem Attack, etc gets multiplied by different tiered modifiers (including damage attributes) actually convinced me that DEX indeed would be a better investment “for now” since items/gears that gives Crit Attack are scaling well with the current content and level cap.
BUT there’s a catch. Stacking alot of Crit Attack would only benefit on builds with alot of multi-hit “skills”. I emphasized on skills because damage attributes is important to make Crit Attack scale better.
It’s a given that high DEX would give better results for skills with already high skill damage since adding more STR will just have diminished damage increase.
Still. There are cases where having more STR will be better. Take Running Shot for example, the buffed normal attacks are only made of modifiers that takes damage from your base and that modifier cannot be boosted by damage attributes since it has none in the first place. This means stacking alot of Crit Attack for Running Shot when that Crit Attack won’t even be boosted by a multiplier makes it scale bad.
303 Crit Attack isn’t impressive by itself by the way. You need to consider the skill to have multi-hit nature first and have very high damage attribute. So for example, a Multi-Shot that hits for 4500 each crit with Lv100 damage attribute will get 606 damage increase from that 303 base Crit Attack PER hit. The skill will get a 13% damage increase if all crits which is very welcome.
Going back to what I said on the first paragraph. It’s just “for now”, while skill damage are still scaling well and how you and your weapon’s base attack still hasn’t gone yet to extreme values. There will be a point where stacking these Crit Attack from headgear enchants, etc will become obsolete.
Crit attack is 1crit chance per. Physical attack is 1+.5crit chance, and elemental is ~1 to 1.
If your crit chance is any lower than 50%, crit attack is even worse than Maximum/minimum attack.
Yes, you can stack lots of it. But it is the worst physical attack stat, point for point.
Again, you guys have to test it by yourselfs.
@dmhamilt Thats just teoritycraft. The only bad thing about stacking lots of critical attack is the overkill on some situations (doing too much damage for an almost dead target), but at high lvl mobs and bosses got toons of hp.
AND [quote=“Dream, post:195, topic:201417”]
It’s a given that high DEX would give better results for skills with already high skill damage since adding more STR will just have diminished damage increase.
[/quote]
Yes, thats the point. This 2 paragraphs should be together btw.
Multshot is not a good example of my point. Use Rank 6 and 7 pls, like snipe, magic arrow, headshot, and so on.
303 STR gives you 303 critical attack and 303 phy attack. WTF? not impresive? Thats more than half of yours full STR rogue STR value, rigth? 
I beg to disagree. All the high level weapons have high base attack value, same for the rank 7 skills, and somehow the same for fletcher c3 skills. Plus with atribute damage it will go even higher. it will NEVER be obsolete. Its a linear progression man. As long as you stay at 30% + of CRITICAL CHANCE and you use a lot of high base damage skill.
Ps: Crt attack on hair acessory is getting more and more expensive. Go ahaed and say that it will be obsolete, maybe the price drop and you can buy one 
FLoki, I thought you have better comprehension than most here on the forums. The point of what I said completely flew over your head. Especially the part where I bold-italicized “isn’t impressive by itself”, meaning there are other factors to be considered before that 303 Crit Attack will give you significant DPS increase. You disagree with what I said even though you know yourself that there will be higher base atk weapons and high damage skills. The problem with the stats from gears as you’ve said is linear meaning they have diminishing effect since they don’t stack multiplicatively.
Anyways I will stop there. I’m not trying to offend you but I think you can’t handle more of what I’m trying to say. Finally, I’m alot more rich in-game than you think.
4 Likes
Well
i would say for hatgears.
Pdam > Eledam > Critattack > critchance dmg wise
but the actual dmg increase whichever u take should be pretty small …
at 280 … if u think ahead it will be even worse
Np man, keep it cool.
I have open mind about changing my opinion on info.
I can said the same, the point of what I said completely flew over your head, you are just pointing my points and going into circles.
I give you numbers, facts, etc, and you was unable to better explain your point.
Diminishing effect? What? Critical attack will allways be the same, there is no cap or max value, nor diminishing returns / effects. Whats your point here? Elaborate, or just keep cool and let it be.
Agree to disagree 
hugs.
You are rigth about phy attack, but every little helps. You dont want 150 extra STR? Also, Crit attack > elemental damage on hair acessory just for the base value it can gives you. Arde dagger gives you 153 fire dmg. Hair acessory gives you 42 fire elem damage. seimos crossbow gives you 153 critical attack. Hair acessory gives you 63 crt attack…
Yes, you lay out some facts but that doesn’t mean you’re choosing the most efficient way to increase your “DPS”.
I knew you didn’t know the meaning of diminishing effect that’s why you can’t understand what I’m trying to point at. 1+1 = 2, a 100% increase, add another +1 and it will become 3, which is a 50% increase, that is the rule of diminishing returns. As long as you keep stacking something additively you get less and lesser % improvement.
Another thing about you, overrating Crit Attack, is you support it with the idea of having only 30% crit chance which obviously lessens the effectiveness of stacking alot of Crit Attack. Technically, you’re only getting 100 avg Crit Attack from that 303 since you’re not doing crits 100% of the time. And if you use the argument that you can have 100% crit chance with Rogue, then checkmate, that contradicts what you said that everyone needs at least 30% crit chance.
You also don’t say that 303 Crit Attack is equivalent to 150 STR because technically, 1 STR = 2.5 damage increase if you factor in criticals. So 150 STR = 375 damage increase. Not to mention, Crit Attack is only boosted by a few multipliers while base physical attack is boosted first by skill modifiers before being further multiplied by other damage multipliers like skill damage attributes.
I’m not underestimating what headgear enchants can give since I know that if you have a complete set of headgear with 40 phy atk + 60 crit atk, that’s quite the damage improvement BUT it depends on which skill or overall build we’re talking about because, if you use Snipe as an example for this, let’s say Snipe reaches 30k crit w/o attributes, with 120 phy atk and 180 crit atk, you will only get a 900 damage improvement which translates to 3% damage increase. Snipe is a bad way to tell the effectiveness of 120 phy atk and 180 crit atk but you’re the one who suggested using it not me. The reason why I used Multi-Shot as an example was to be fair since it has a fair modifier and skill damage.
There is an STR:DEX optimizer spreadsheet on general discussion. I tested Split Arrow there and it suggested that I’m better off with stacking almost full STR with just tiny amount of DEX for optimal DPS. This disproves your theory that everyone needs 30% crit chance, and yes, it’s a theory, not a fact because you seem to be misunderstanding.
If reddit forumers said 30% crit chance is a must for all. Take it with a pinch of salt. The information has it’s merits but it isn’t applicable to everything.
1 Like
I see.
Looks like I got the 30% critical chance mark and the “extra” 44+44+44 phy attack and 63+63+63 extra critical attack into consideration more to a constant mult hit build, as fletcher, so I was a bit build focused, and thats not the point of a generalist STR x DEX topic.
I do not think that Im overrating Crit Attack, I allways said “at least” 30%, ofc you should have more than that. 320 critical rate on a 0 resist enemy is almost 50% critical chance, so if you push to 420 critical rate, with the 100 critical resist enemy you will have 48% critical chance. Not all enemys on lvl 280 have this 100 critical resist, is just the one scenario, but its above average. Probl. your enemys will have less than 100 critical resist at that level.
Well, Im a Lawyer in my country and english is not my native language, more than that, math is not my area of knowledge, still your diminishing effect does not sound rigth to me. 1+1 = 2. 100% increase, add another +1 and it will become 3, (50% increase). Ok. I got it. But thats also 300% from the original value rigth? Or I can say, if the original value is ONE, and I got +2 the increase gives me more 200%.
Im Pretty bad with maths please correct me if im wrong.
My point is the way you are looking at the number. 1+1= 2. (or double). 1+1+1 = 3 and its the triple of the original value / number. 200% increase seems a BIG deal rigth?
I agree with you, snipe is not a good example of the hair acessory thing, But I had the magic arrow skill in mind as my best example.
Well, this 320 critical rate is the point where the STR gives you more than dex in final dps, it just mean that. With high level mobs, at least one critical in 3 hits seems good is real in game tests, so I do belive thats a fine point, and more than that, they did the math and I take it as rigth for my build.
Ps: you do note that for a 100% critical chance with rouge (checkmate, lol) critical attack is pretty good, ofc, with high extra phy attack from hair acessory? You have this 2 opt from it, why not stack them both? My point is, phy attack and crt attack are your best opt dps wise, as the amount you gain with critical rate in hair acessory is too small.
Its pretty dam fun arguing and debating one object / topic in english, at this times I do realize how big is my native language x english. We have 3 or 4 words for one thing in english and some one them have no correlative in english.