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DEX is nearly worthless in pvp. You can’t crit players much if at all since CON gives crit resist, and you can get enough accuracy from gloves since your level seems to help too.
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Yes, but other players also receive evasion from their boots. Slotting boots with green gems also gives the same amount of evasion as the acc from your green gem’d gloves. So then how do you account for the 200+ evasion DEX characters have over you, not even considering things like Swift Step and Guardian?
The advice of going 0 dex and getting acc from gloves + gems applies only to PvE, my friend…
Haha man, I think you should stop discouraging people from posting in your threads like this. You always accuse others of being off-topic when they challenge your build. But disagreements fuel discussion, too, which furthers our learning and understanding of the game.
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Yes, Thank you for catching that.
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nope, try it out for yourself.
Have to disagree here based on personal experience up to level 220 as a 1:2 STR:DEX build. I was dodging like no tomorrow with 4 leather and 30 attributes. I switched to 4 plate when I got Corsair2 for the extra stamina and I’m still dodging like no tomorrow, except now when the odd physical hits go through they don’t rip me a new one, and most mobs up to +5 my level actually tickle with Aspersion buff. During missions I’m always the one taking least damage while still facetanking without shield. During dungeons 9/10 I’m the main tank and I can eat physical attacks all day long.
So I say if you really want full DEX, don’t do it for the evasion, do it for the crit rate. Full DEX is simply not needed for a good evasion build thanks to the evasion cap and I crit plenty with 3 level 5 green gems. So for those new players wanting a DEX build, don’t feel pressured into going full DEX or bust. You’ll do just fine with a healthy amount of STR and some CON here and there.
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Well, you have to consider the scenario. In kToS Arena and GvG, everyone’s levels are scaled down to 200. As you said, eva/acc is dependent on levels, so I’m guessing this was done to boost the effectiveness of evasion.
Considering this, we can calculate hit rate based on this formula:
Evasion = (Player Evasion - Enemy Accuracy) / 535
So, lets consider a scenario of a Swordie with 0 DEX invested vs a Swordie with 200 DEX invested (258 total). I’m going to assume both are wearing Max Peta, 3 lv5 green gems, and Grynas Set, since it’s all the rage right now.
Hit rate/evasion rate = DEX + level bonus + gems + gloves/boots
0 DEX Swordie hit rate = 20 + 200 + 22*3 + 102 = 388
200 DEX Swordie evasion rate = 278 + 200 + 17*3 + 102 = 648
(648 - 388)/535 = ~.486
So he will dodge almost half of the 0 DEX Swordie’s attacks. I guess it’s up to the player if that’s sufficient or not. But consider the fact that if the DEX Swordie has Pelt and access to Guardian (which almost very Swordie does), 0 DEX’s chances of landing a hit goes down to 25%…
Also consider that while dodging at 50%-75%, he will be hitting at 100% and definitely not at half of 0 DEX Swordie’s damage, even if he has 0 STR invested. It’s weird, but it’s because the attack you get from your weapon, gear, level, and base skill attack far outweigh the attack you get from leveling STR.
Please let me know if there are any miscalculations or if there are any other factors. Of course, this is just looking at one extreme, where in reality most Swordies looking to PvP wouldn’t be going in with 0 DEX. But then, on the other end, there’s players like haukinyau that went full DEX instead of just 200.
BTW Guys, don’t forget you can buy “Monstrance” Skill Scrolls from Pardoners who put them on the market. +30% increase to DEX that way for a period of time ^o.o^
If you have some deep pockets and you want to solo, I guess it’s an option? :3
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i m not full DEX but 1:5 CON : DEX, no STR invest
currently at R4 Highlander C2 lv11, planning to walk the Fencer path
i do have a full STR Hoplite, but i enjoy my high DEX build more, i love to see my character dodge attack and burst out orange number
the only way i could achieve it with STR build would be Finestra, but dodge is still missing
there are no proper build for Swordsman, CON give you nothing more than slightly more HP for magic to burn you alive, unless you play the Peltasta>Rodelero build
STR give nothing but pure damage only, and DEX give nothing but evasion and critical rate, i would not call anything a proper build when the whole swordsman is broken
now STR received some buff in kTOS, no one foresee this happening, then, who know when would one day DEX and CON swordsman received buff too
and my Hoplite build without Finestra arent doing much greater dmg than my DEX highlander
no one know what happen in the future, and from the formula found in STR vs DEX, full STR is doing higher damage, but i would say wasnt that huge at the level of 280
might be i will shift more in CON in the future, but i definitely dont feel my STR build doing significantly better than my DEX build, and i dont found my DEX build took longer to finish quest
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PVP swordie most commonly dont have pelt, as far as I understood this boards.
On your damage calculation you have to factor in critical hits and ktos str buff. The odds are dex swordie wins as long as the dice doestn role critical hit in favor of the str I guess.
1 word for you
Magic
but dex really effective for pvp and physical atk though
[quote=“dahdoczock, post:74, topic:298155, full:true”]PVP swordie most commonly dont have pelt, as far as I understood this boards.
On your damage calculation you have to factor in critical hits and ktos str buff. The odds are dex swordie wins as long as the dice doestn role critical hit in favor of the str I guess.
[/quote]
Rodelero and Fencer builds will some times include Pelt, and those builds are also usually high DEX. I also expect to see Pelt-Hop-Cata3s in PvP, and with Bloodletting, that Cata3 would actually beat a Sw3Cata3. 
[quote=“haukinyau, post:72, topic:298155, full:true”]@1nvers3
Thank you for the elaborated explanation. Pretty much what you said, and i agree with you.
But in my case, i just simply put in Full Dex coz I am thinking i want to do 99% hit rate for my Restrain+Rush+trost15 (im sw3 cata3).
If whole server play low dodge, i could spend more points into Str/Con.
But i’ll never know if i will ever meet high/max dodge archer/swordman…
Dodge in another way, is almost negligible in PvP… as archer have high hit and i cant dodge magic… i just hoping i can kill 1 or 2 ppl with my combo, then i can die happily.
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Well, if I were to theory craft, I believe it would still be more beneficial to invest in CON for what you want to do.
Some points to consider:
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In a fight vs another DEX character, evasion will not benefit either side as a defensive stat, so I think the character with higher CON will be favored. With more HP and lowering the enemy’s chances to crit, CON is the obvious counter to DEX.
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Investing in CON requires sacrificing DEX. So sub-stats wise, that’s evasion, accuracy, and crit rate for HP, crit resist, and block (but we 2h Catas don’t care about that). For some reason, all the gem stats give a much higher bonus for eva, acc, and crit rate per level than HP and crit resist. Dunno why IMC decided to do this, but here’s a chart:
So what you trade for HP/crit res from DEX can easily be made up for from gems, but not the other way around. I found this chart today, and it actually affects what I said about DEX yesterday. I’ll try to explain with another calculation. With good gloves, gems, how much DEX do you need to reliably hit a full DEX Swordie (not considering Monstrance and Guardian)?
Full DEX Swordie @ lv200 in arena = 200(lvl) + 415(base dex) + 14(max peta) + 102(boots) + 3*32(lv7 gems) = 827
For 70% hit rate:
.3 = (827 - x) / 535
x = 667
How hard is it to attain 667 acc?
200(lvl) + x(DEX) + 14 + 102 + 3*44 = 667
x = 219
That’s 219 total DEX. That requires 171 points invested. Some notes about the calculation above:
a. I purposely used lv7 gems. So what I found out is, for some reason, IMC seems to favor acc over evasion. As gems get higher and higher level, the acc you get from green gems is far greater than eva.
b. I use 70% as a “reliable hit rate” but tbh, I would consider an even lower HR than that to be reliable since we have Restrain, which stuns even when we miss. Who cares if they are dodging us when they can’t act/move? Though Bloodletting tips the balance in this, I won’t consider that bc obviously versus PDs we are ****ed.
c. This is contrary to what I said yesterday, in part because of the new info about gems, but also because my first post was a comparison b/t a 0 invested DEX Swordie vs 200 invested DEX Swordie.
TL:DR Conclusion is that investing in DEX is a MUST for PvP, but going for very high/full DEX doesn’t seem optimal. Evasion is too easily countered, CON is too good for Swordsman, green gems give OP acc, and Restrain stuns even when you miss.
After thinking about this, I’m really considering changing my build to CON>DEX. If the kToS buffs are significant enough, maybe STR/CON/DEX.
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Was reading through this thread
if im not mistaken, your raw physcial damage do matter to crit damage
So its like Raw Damage + whatever modifiers for defense and stuff = physcial damage the white number popping out of the mob.
if its a crit hit, just add 50% to the white number popping out + crit atk attribute that is from your DEX + whatever equips that adds crit atk.
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Yes, each point of STR adds 1 damage to non-crit attacks and 2.5 damage to crit attacks. That is why optimal DPS builds try to strike a balance between STR/atk and DEX/crit, since crits amplify the effects of STR significantly.
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