Tree of Savior

@Developer, please read these thread about iToS people's opinion regarding healing tile at Re:Build


#61

and if heal now target single teammate, no more teammate running around just because how inconvenience heal used to be

Healer can focus on the job rather than drop and forget

furthermore, heal from cleric should no more than supplementary healing in rebuild, and i bet there will not be many dedicate healer who took more than just cleric. in those build a target heal would make fight that require heavy healing much more reliable and efficient


#62

Hi guys, I never had the chance to experience the new heal or see it in action casted onto teammates. I was gonna wait and try it out myself before making any comments, but seems like this new heal is a big and serious topic right now.

So I wanna ask, how does the target mechanism feel? Easy or hard to aim at teammates? Is it a strict 1-person heal? How would you aim if 2 teammates are standing together? Basically, any info on your experiences will be appreciated.


#63

You have two overheat and you can select one teammate you want to heal.

Ex: Your heal shortcut is E. You press E, the new UI shows up and you choose the side (Right, Left, Up, Down) wich corresponds to the teammate you want to heal. Very simple.
If you want to heal yourself, just press E again.

You don’t have to worry about two party members standing together as the heal goes directly to the one you choose to heal.


#64

-> Well said, this game is called Tree of Solo for a reason
-> Oh yes, I don’t need a cleric to do velcoffer because I’m richest player in the entire game Guys, look at my 99999 stacks of 50% HP and SP elixirs

My dear, they made Heal single target so you can save yourself instead, please get your facts straight :slight_smile:


#65

It simplifies the game while players are asking more difficulty in ToS. But I would agree with you if you say that Heal tiles only bring artificial difficulty to the game as the skill is clearly not flawless in its design.

I’m really not against single target healing, but don’t like the idea to put this kind of skill on Cleric. Skills from base class should be unique and reflect the whole theme of the tree. It’s really uncreative compared to the rest.


#66

From i read all everyone talk.
You seem to be the most understanable in reality & human personality in game play.
It seem u have most experien in pt play wih random people.


#67

No clue how well the new healing works but …
This is way to much …


;/


#68

Single Target basic heal opens up the boss design way more.
If they want to bring back “Tiles” just give it an attribute that makes the heal leave a floating Heal zone that a boss can’t steal (Maybe link it to having one of the other support classes as well).
As someone that has played healers before in other games, this basic, direct heal opens up design a lot more than tiles. Especially if every player can spam tiles like in the above video.
With the direct heal you can and have to target a player to heal and be an effective healer. It raises the skillcap on the role a lot and lets them, as said before, design more difficult bosses around healing as well. Now they can add NPC’s to bosses, adds that spawn, different phases, etc. .
Can’t wait for Hots, decursing actually being used again, etc. . =D

Will be interesting how Boss design will change in the future and if they will reign in the knockdown a bit and use other mechanics like “Must decurse” debuffs or “Mind control” for example.

Though I can agree, Tiles were cool even if the direct heal is more skill oriented.


#69

good points for both sides tbh.
i would do both so y’all stfu lul
simply make an attribute to turn the heal were getting back into tiles


#70

I’m actually shocked that some people are in favour of ground-tiles healing.

As a healer your main job is to take care of your party: you purge them of CC/DOTs, you buff them, you shield them, you heal them, and such.
Every games will do it different, they sometimes split the job in two (pure healer job or half-healer-half-buffer job), but in TOS you didn’t have that. The truth is that the healer couldn’t do much if your party wasn’t willing to work with you. And that’s stupid. I’m the healer, I should be at least in control of my job, shouldn’t I ?

Heal being tile-based meant you couldn’t heal WHO you wanted to WHEN you wanted to (which is why Mass Heal was my babe).
It meant you had idiots who barely lost HP and yet stole the tiles, and in general stole every tile-based skills (then panicked because they suddenly had too much HP from Ein Sof <3). Then you had idiots who never used the tiles because they didn’t see them because of the weird ground of X map, or because they had visual effects turned off.
If you needed some of your tile-skill for yourself (Healing Factor, Ein Sof), you had to make sure you were away from your members to be sure none of them could steal it from you by mistake (or even by being knocked into it by the enemy). What kind of carp is that ?
Also never forget tough bosses who destroyed magic circles (I love you, Rexibabe), or people who stole tiles from other parties during WB fights.
Another good part is when the person gets chain knocked back/down and can not run on the heal tiles. You better hope your cd is over or have Mass Heal.

I don’t understand how one can defend this system. Even if things were a bit improved, it doesn’t change the fact as healer you had no full control of your own skills and support. It’s stupid. It ruins the role.
“You’re telling me I’m the healer, but I cannot heal whoever and however I want ?”

The whole argument of “heal tiles made it more difficult and more strategic” makes no sense to me. It’s a fake difficulty, a difficulty created from inconvenience and restriction.
You want real difficulty ? Make bosses’ damages strong enough that the healer has to always be careful, know the mechanics and anticipate in order to heal before/at the same time as the boss uses a deadly skill.
For example, in most games you’ll have some bosses with an almost one-shotting skill which targets one player randomly, and if the healer is too slow and takes more than 1s to react, the targeted player is dead. That’s difficulty because you have to be in full control of your skills, not panic, understand and know the mechanics.

NOW
I am not saying that this new Heal system is perfect, I’m just saying that the tile-based one was terrible.
Also imo they changed Heal this way because it was too OP. You only needed to be Cleric 1-2 to basically be the best healer, then you could go full debuffs/buffs/DPS/fun build.
I’ve always had mostly clerics, they were all top healers even if some of them were hybrid-physical DPS or INT DPS or whatever. It’s stupid.
Now it’s more like Heal is your beginner’s heal, but on later levels you can’t rely on it only. Which makes sense. And it’s how it should be.


#71

I too, enjoy making illogical arguments based on the vacuum that is my own set of preferences /sarcasm.
If only you spent as much time thinking as you did writing that message we might be off to a good start.

The type of gameplay you’re talking about, urgent reactive healing, is something that only works if the healer can cast them from range and has no other niches to fulfill.
When a certain healing class has channeling skills, mostly melee cast range and other niches to fulfill it becomes harder to fire of those heals at a split second.

One of the better ways to allow diverse builds to still heal quite well, is by giving them preemptive skills that allow them to keep the party alive even if they spend the next 7s channeling foretell.
Granted it doesn’t need to be heal tiles, but they are functionally solid.
Instead it its 2 overheat and 24s cd that nearly require you to cast both charges asap is what really hindered it I would say. (and visibility as well, but the same is true for targeting issues)

And there is a good reason to ask for targeted heals, reliability and long range use can be lifesavers.
But there is no reason to make the targeted heal the one all clerics get, quite the opposite even.
Who needs a targeted heal the most? healing focus builds, which tend to use priest/kabba anyway. Maybe even oracle since its so pvp focused.
Who needs a preemptive heal the most? all of the other cleric builds.

And yes, the whole point of most clerics having sufficient healing was to enable build diversity.
Removing that will only downgrade most cleric builds to dps with maybe a dash of support. (and occasional self healing)

so tl/dr:
You’re asking for changes that would hinder everything but pure healing clerics, so go ■■■■ yourself.


#72

Restricted to party. There isn’t even a choice to allow non party players to receive healing. The problem I find with this change is not so much as healing per say, but for how targeted skills are going to be restricted to party members only. We are entering into more guild content “soon” and you want IMC to relegate some skills to party only?

As for heal itself. I won’t be able to do a drive by and just heal some stranger I see dropping low out in the field anymore. Oh wait I still can if I here a priest or any other class that has non-party restricted healing. Every argument against tiles simply ignore the fact that every other heal is still on the ground and or AoE. You could argue healing factor is the same but HF does not heal damage you’ve already lost (so doesn’t count).

Why does it have to be targeted though? They could do what they did with fireball and give it ground targeting to make it ranged. Take away the cd but give it an increasing cost so it isn’t a brain dead skill where you just spam it.


#73

If the tile condenses in one single tile and able to drop it with a aimming circle, then I am not against tile. What I ask for is the ability to heal a specific target with all my healing potency without the receiving side running around.
This way I could heal the one dying and not a single heal stolen by some other teammate who clearly is not in emergency.
This condensed healing power allow player who have only cleric (non healer/support build) provide a more reliable and effective healing when a proper healer is not in the party


#74

The compromise I see for a non party specific heal + priority target healing is a screen wide clone of mass heal that only heals the lowest %HP in the screen. Why? Because AAR base skills are already able to “pick out” targets they hit by condition. Why can’t we heal by condition too? If attacks can prioritize highest ADR, heals can certainly prioritize lowest current HP to max HP ratio.

Wadaya think?


#75

Why not satisfy both camps and create an attribute that changes the directed heals into heal tiles?

“Tiled Heal”
Changes heal to 5 heal tiles of 200% heal power each with 2 overheats. Heal tiles last for 10 secs. Cooldown is increased to 20 secs.


#76

i prefer worse version of rebuild: remove cd, heal 50% healing power.


#77

Ein/Heal casted on teammate!


#78

That’s what i wnated to say too but I deleted too multiply times… XD It’s weird but as much as simple targeted heal seems it seems like that could fit into a fullsupport build and make it much less boring as full support builds mostly are…
The aoe heals that we have on support builds are rly the easiest to use out of all. While every build support or not will get the more hard to use targeted heal while you may want to focus on dps instead of healing. Heal Tiles were much more convenient and reasonable from that point of view…

But ppl also say it is not hard to use the new targeted heal so don’t know… Every 10 sec 2 oh still seems overwhelming to me tho… again especially in builds that shouldn’t focus on that but dps…


#79

I like this. Personally I would be fine if Mass Heal or Restoration Aura was in the cleric tree, and direct heal was a priest ability or something like that. I think it is nice that all clerics get the direct heal, if only to give them all a personal heal option and they can choose to use it on other players but it most likely wont be necessary.

A DPS cleric is going to have garbage SPR and thus garbage healing stat, so I wouldn’t want them to waste the time casting their garbage heals when I plan to get someone else to fulfill that role.

I think the current re:build plan will promote build diversity even if the base cleric is the one with the direct heal, but there is always room for improvement.

EDIT: to be clear I never want to see heal tiles come back in any form, but I agree that the skills could be better organized to promote intra-class diversity


#80

There is actually a good reason to make targeted Heal the one Heal every Cleric gets: Re:build.

The premise of Heal is that it is the primary & base recovery skill every Cleric has access to.
I think I don’t have to argue again that this is balanced out by the other Classes getting other damage mitigation buffs.

Now to the point: what is needed for Cleric to have a good self-sustain with its current melee range playstyle?
A low CD Heal.
How do you achieve that in Re:build, according to the new balance formula?

by having no AoE and a low modifier = targeted Healing

On top of that, we have to acknowledge that targeting in the way it is presented in Re:build, easily allows for self-targeting, while the rest of the targeting is quite a mess.

But that doesn’t matter at all. The developers even stated that they wanted to prohibit buff theft by fellow party members, be it accidental or deliberately, which also is a concern for Heal now.

Everything in this system points at the obvious fact that self-targeting it the utmost priority for Heal and targeted buffs.

So now we get to the other Classes with heals. Their skills have high CD and large AoE because they are supposed to supplement recovery via potions, not to replace it.
That’s why they halved potion CD and reduced potion CD in Re:build, so you could pot more and need less supplements from Priest/Kabbalist/Pardoner.

And on your last statement:

Heal already has a preemptive effect on it, it’s called Heal:Linger.
It recovers up to 750% of your Healing stat over 10 seconds.

Paired with Guardian Saint, you can reach a really good amount of recovery, and since the CD of Heal is 10 seconds only;

even if you don’t use the 2nd OH of Heal, after 10 seconds you will have both OHs again, so you can always use one OH of Heal with full HP to trigger the 500-750% Healing stat recovery over the 10 seconds and still have another OH of Heal for yourself to cover any additional damage you take in that time if required.

In my opinion this design choice is just brilliant, it’s very useful for Clerics to help them to survive everything while offering whales and “Healers” an option to do some role-playing as “Healers” with it.