Tree of Savior

@Developer, please read these thread about iToS people's opinion regarding healing tile at Re:Build


#1

i think the debate starting from post #3916


and still continuing to post #4046


KToS General Thread v4.0
#2

Is there any way to gather the whole discussing without writing down everything again? :cold_sweat:

It’d be nice if we could keep discussion topics outside the KToS thread. Thanks for this.


#3

Yeah this whole argument is too exhausting for me to go over everything I’ve already said in the other thread :x:
Besides, we aren’t Ktos so I don’t think it’s going to matter.


#4

Regarding how complexity, or rather difficulty i should call it instead, has changed after the Re:Build update i often like to use Siauliai Mission videos as a reference to point out cartain aspects of it. Therefore i will provide two examples so you are able to take your own conclusions out of them.


Have in account the following points:

  • The level of the gear used by the player
  • The amount of damage said player is capable of doing despite gear level
  • The amount of damage done by boss monsters
  • The amount of damage taken by the player

You will notice the amount of effort the players have to put in order to defeat a boss in the least amount of time possible at the point of risking their HP. You will also notice something very particular at the end of both videos. Both are unable to finish the last part of the mission by themselves, with the dead of the player in both scenarios.


#5

I’m watching the movements of the bosses though, and from what I can see, the actual tactics of the bosses haven’t changed. They just deal a lot more damage and/or player defenses aren’t carrying them like they do in the current state of the game.

All this tells me is that heals are going to be more necessary, which is great! But it really doesn’t mean that heal tiles couldn’t serve the new difficulty.

A variant of the current heal but with a reduced tile duration or a heal strength that decays based on how long the tiles stay out would still retain all of the old tile functionality while encouraging players to be smarter with how they drop their heals instead of stacking them all up in one place.


#6

I think that i can agree with you at one point. I don’t think the removal of the current Heal is necessary, but i’d rather see it in a more dedicated class, with the same power that it currently holds. For some reason i think Pardoner would be a good fit for the current Heal we have.


#7

@c2gaming.seetoo

Do you know if perhaps the skill does work with the mouse configuration?


#8

Pardoner already got a pretty substantial heal, but I’d be happy to see it given to another cleric support in need of more healing options. Like Oracle or Miko.

Honestly this move could fit many thematics. You could replace the tiles with little sandwiches and it would still fill its intended function. I mean jeez, give it to Alchemist even. At least it’d fit in with Magnum Opus’s grid aesthetic.


#9

I agree in a somewhat similar way. I would prefer to have both, with the old Heal tiles on a newer or more designated class.

New Heal is more interactive and better for balance imo, however what I liked most about the tiles were that they took some stress away from being a healer (something I believe is very important).
You place them, focus on your other duties, and your team will grab them as necessary.

At that point, you’d only have to watch out for if they ran out on a location (I got into the habit of placing 1-OH on each side of the boss instead of chasing people down), and monitor the teammates on that side.

I’d prefer to see them back one day, but maybe as smaller supplementary heals that aren’t as strong as the more interactive options available to a healer currently, and not as somewhat overpowered as they have been.


#10

I can only imagine but it should work with wasd.


#11

They Could make heal frontal 90 degree cone with a small circle around the caster(size of the old safety zone) that uses the new buff targeting UI. 2 charges 10 second cd.

Heal now heals for as shown but in a cone when healing 1 target. When healing 1 target but another friendly is in the frontal cone then it gets split at 50/50. When healing 3+ targets the main target gets 50% of the healing and the other 2+ targets get the rest of the healing distributed equally.

For instance if heal healed for 30k
1 target = 30k heal
2 targets = 15k heal main target 15k secondary target
3 targets = 15k heal main target 7.5k heal secondary targets
4 targets = 15k heal main target 5k heal secondary targets


#12

don’t give them ideas.
Everyone is responsible for his own actions and own HP pool.

Heal is created to cater Clerics own needs only, other Classes have buffs to avoid or decrease damage taken.
Judging by the videos, it’s fair to assume that the increased difficulty will probably also increase the gained spoils, which is fine.

Saalus and Siaulai/Crystal Mine/Catacombs/etc were designed as party content after all, and as monsters tend to concentrate on only one player, the other 4 can deal with the enemy quickly and neatly.

I think the current Re:build-system is done the correct way, it requires the player to actually focus on the enemy he’s dealing with instead of just mindlessly hitting it with a stick still it’s dead.

It says: don’t count on others, focus on your own hide and the enemy only.
And it delivers quite well. Now there is a huge impact of defense, block, evasion,skills and active damage prevention by moving in and out of the danger zone.

I think it’s well done to no longer pamper non-Clerics with up to 32 Heal tiles that individually could full-heal them. They have to actively play the game. And it’s not like the bosses movement got any quicker or sharper, it’s still the easy system where you can avoid a lot of attacks by taking a step sidewards/backwards.

And it provides a lot of long openings for attacks. Compare that with Monster Hunter and the difference is still like between day and night in terms of difficulty.

Once players are accustomed to being more cautious the game itself will be easy for them again, even without Heals on them 24/7.

That’s because they run into the attacks of the enemy and/or do not even try to evade them. After seeing the large amounts of damage I take, I would first back down and try to focus on finding out the timing and attack ranges/areas instead of sticking closely to the enemy just to face death.

They ran into death with seeing eyes. It feels like a “light version” of early Rank 8 content.


#13

We should create a poll! If you guys want to change something, numbers will be needed!

I’m a cleric user and don’t like new heal mechanic
I’m a cleric user and I like the new heal mechanic
I’m not a cleric user and I don’t like the new heal mechanic
I’m not a cleric user and I like the new heal mechanic

Something like that-

If you guys don’t like the idea, just ignore me, please.

Edit1: I like the new Heal!


#14

I started reading then i stopped, going to lose some brain cells.

Their is so many ways to balance heal where it can cater to your self when your a dps cleric to when you need it to heal party members.

For instance the current ktest heal can be the normal heal that every cleric gets and it can keep the cleric alive. But then when you pick priest the idea i suggested comes as an attribute around level 200 for cleric and heal gets a boost


#15

I think those two vids is not a good basis as an argument on bringing back the heal tiles. We should at least see a party play with the current heal mechanic and see how it really works.

ToS goal now is more on party play and not soloing everything.


#16

Oh, i should’ve explained this before posting, my bad. The reason behind the video was to show @frustratedsquirrel2 how combat difficulty has increased due to the rise and decrease in certain factors such as damage dealt from players, damage dealt from bosses and the amount of damage each can take. I wasn’t really trying to point anything regarding the discussion about heal tiles as the thread was made as a continuation of the discussion held in the KToS thread. I apologize.

Yes. Again, i apologize if i mislead anybody, i was just trying to point out why paying attention to your own actions and your foe is very important as bosses are now capable of deal large chunks of damage regardless of their rank, as well as demonstrate why full support classes and healers will be highly requested due to less damage potential and survivabiliy.


#17

Yes, that’s the quintessence of the update. The difference between bosses decreased a lot, so while currently Saalus bosses are a walk in the park and Velcoffer is still OP in comparison, the Re:build system shrunk the difference, which thus made the progression and fighting experience curve less steep for players as they will be more accustomed to the imminent threat to their life.

Starting from there you can raise the difficulty with less trouble than hitting a steep wall, which is also in unison with the new equipment stats.

Regarding the Heal tiles, it will probably hinder more free movement of both players and bosses and provide difficulty in combination with knockback & ground destruction abilities, which is why IMC removed the tile nature of Heal so the Cleric himself can survive with more ease as he has lost Safety Zone and block as viable ways to prevent getting hit all the time without constantly being on the move as well.

If it provides me more freedom to move around and do other things, I can accept Heal not being tile-based any longer, even though I’m quite fond of the tactical options that the current pre-Re:build-Heal provides.


#18

Healing tiles were ■■■■ design.

Here, I’ll even guess that you were one of those people who made sure the tiles were off out in the middle of nowhere so that other people “could see them.”


#19

I’m not a cleric user and I don’t like the new heal mechanic


#20

Good there there are still 5 classes with an AoE heal just for people like you who are incapable of dodging easily avoidable damage or using potions.

All clerics get a single target heal, which if you were a DPS cleric before rebuild, healed approximately one person anyway. Tiles were a clunky mechanic that encouraged people to do dumb things. Every single PVE boss was based around destroying magic circles as its mechanic because that was the most “threatening.”

There are so many heal support options, but the reality of the situation is that players broadly, if they want to do harder content, need to be more self-reliant and actually dodge mechanics.