WARNING - This thread isn’t made for new players or those that seek guidance on how to use said class, please look for proper threads regarding it such as class overviews and build guides. Design Breakdown is a design discussion thread only and has no purpose to help players on practical aspects of the game.
Starting an unexpected and out of time Design Breakdown with the first true hidden class, the one that breathes anime, Shinobi. Before start it i know this was the last place on the hidden class poll and it shouldn’t be covered that soon but there was a thread that took the class into discussion recently and i’d like to use this as a reply as well. As this isn’t enough of a reason to get it to top the real winner, Rune Caster, will be out on the next week along with Sadhu as planned. In case this is your first time on a Design Breakdown topic go to this link for some basic information.
Shinobi - RANK 7 - ATTACK
“Shinobis are warriors who are familiar with special tactics called Ninjutsu. Only few can overcome the long and harsh training required to become a Shinobi.”
Identity, Hidden Classes and Value
Hidden Classes don’t follow the same rules as regular classes, that isn’t only due the requirements to unlock but rather the fact they have to be done for a single rank. This alone forces them to have 5 skills (or 25 points) to take as it can’t go further, it keeps it in the average point distribution of 60% as from c1 to c3 the point allocation is at the minimum at 75%, 60% and 52%.
With so few skills it is hard to develop an identity that can be held by a theme in the same model that works for regular classes, there’s no room for relief skills or for specialization itself, and as they require long and harsh quests it is hard to make them attractive. That wouldn’t be the case if they bend the rules and make those classes skills capped at lvl 3 or 4 and have more basic skills but that can be overwhelming to deal with and having multiple hidden classes will easily consume an unneeded amount hotkeys.
The ideal way to deal with them is to turn them into classes of pure identity skill but that also funels the player base that would take them. It can be used as an excuse to give them to dominate an aspect of the game and make them mandatory to deal with game content and that would go against their own nature of exclusivity, not to say that depending on direction it can make it super unpopular and devalue class vouchers drastically.
Given those factors Hidden Classes are often broad unspecialized classes that have one or two gimmicks to be used in combination with other classes, or in some cases restrict class synergy, and this approach makes them more niche even not due their identity. That said no Hidden Class will be addressed on potential identities for the breakdown, instead they’ll have a Potential Identity segment at the end.
Shinobis and ninjas are and not the same. The western and japanese media had built the myth of Ninja, assassins trained in deadly martial arts that wore black clothes and had magical abilities, but that also got it way beyond what they were and that’s where the distinction comes in. Even tho those words act like synonyms Shinobi is seldom associated with this mystified figure that it became, it can be used to refer to the real life ninja as those were spies and would avoid combat whenever possible. All known ninja techniques have origins on deceiving tricks, those would use knowledge on nature, installation of traps, use of sounds and light, gunpowder, sight angles, coordinated group actions and quick movements, and that can look like magic for the deceived under the right circumstances.
For a ninja the most valuable virtue was to ‘not be’, regardless of the mission they should never leave a sign of their presence. On the matter of arms they’d carry small weapons such as daggers and sickles, those which would have a chain and a weight attached, along with disposable tools for distraction and escape such as smoke bombs, smell bombs, caltrops, kunais and shurikens. One thing to notice is that when they did engaged combat the approach was either to disable enemies or, in the worst case scenario, to go for a single killing blow, the standard is to end any battle quickly and fade away.
Taking the chosen name and way the skills are presented it feels like Shinobi is meant to go for a more down to earth approach on the theme, that doesn’t mean it didn’t took some elements from media ninjas.
Mijin no Jutsu (C)
It’s unclear ninjas had a technique such extreme but as their job required not to be caught it wouldn’t be weird to have some kind of suicidal skill, in fact the stealth attribute makes it a fake death and that is a way to deliver its theme.
The execution of Mijin no Jutsu is clunky, once activated it will start a non stoppable animation and even past the explosion will restrain the movement for a couple of seconds, that combined with the HP cost makes it a dangerous skill to use. It’s also weird that the damage type isn’t specified nor is taken as fire physical. One nice feature it has is how it can detonate clones for burst damage, it can be quite handy when timed properly.
It would be a bless to have this skill more fluid and also changed from instant countdown to uninterruptible casting as using it by accident isn’t forgiving and can even lead to an accidental suicide.
Bunshin no Jutsu (D)
Cloning techniques are something ninjas could fake by having a coordinated group using the same outfit and moving in sync, another way to do it was by moving so quickly in darkness that others would perceive one as many.
Bunshin no Jutsu has some red flags even past the latest adjustment, the major issue with the skill is how it keeps adding power to it by leveling and for a skill that adds units it isn’t a good idea to do and gets even worse without a floor, which in this case can’t be applied at all. It was quite smart to increase the cooldown of used skills along with a higher SP consumption but that can be deceiving when using the skill especially when those values are based how many clones were summoned, the more someone plays the more it get used to time cooldowns without looking and Bunshin no Jutsu doesn’t help on this matter. Another issue is how the skill isolates attributes, even the enhance ones, and buffs and keep the damage tied to skill level, that itself makes scattered builds less effective as they can’t reach the max levels on it, and as such it doesn’t have any noticeable improvement in party play nor in higher ranks. Taking the cooldown inconsistency, inability to be expanded, coordination required and power scaling, it just doesn’t play intuitively especially for new players don’t know which skills can be copied and would assume that all can.
For this matter it may be better to have Bunshin no Jutsu restructured into a more reliable and intuitive version that brings up versatility over raw damage. Only one clone with attribute to have a second one, have the additional SP consumption, remove the duration restriction, give clones HP proportional user’s, make all skills copyable and have buffs and attributes to affect them. In this scenario the cooldown can be increased significantly and leveling factor can become clones HP ratio, lower additional SP consumption or even lower SP cost in %, as a skill on this magnitude can have it in percentage for the activation. The trick tho is to make clone power tied to the character, as to share the same buffs and elemental properties, and have stats linked in real time even if that means the clone will receive less PAtk and CAtk from it, that penalty can be increased for when using two clones (ex: 1 x 75% → 2 x 50%). By using those mechanisms it should be possible for clones to not expire, apply all skills (including Double Weapon Assault) and be effective both in offense and as defense without breaking the game balance. It adds a small layer of complexity as clones need to stay alive but this time it makes sense as they won’t expire, not to say that managing fewer clones is easier.
Mokuton no Jutsu (E)
As weird as it may sound this pays homage to a real ninja ‘strange body’ technique, it consists on using dummies made of wood or straw dressed as the user in order to take damage and deceive enemies. It’s odd for it to take the media approach of it with wooden log but that can be justified by how hard it may be to have a dummy that looks like the user enough but also not be exactly like it.
Mokuton no Jutsu is another clunky skill that is too slow to be effective, the time it makes the user unable to move completely kills the purpose of it as a defensive skill as it only avoids the first attack and grants no invincibility for the animation time, such is the case that it’s possible to die before the landing. The major positive the skill has is how it can evade magic and also resposition the user to the aggressor, that by itself is a great way to get into ranged and avoid magic circles. There’s also a damage component that is hidden for some reason and we can’t know for sure how much it is nor how many enemies it affects.
There are several ways to address this skill terrible flow, be that by replacing the teleport for a stealth and reverse it with attribute, change it to teleport behind the enemy just like Beady Eyes, make the user untargetable and/or invincible for the landing animation or even make the landing strike optional by attacking or not mid air. Duration isn’t an attractive element to be taken as well and it may suit more to have extra damage or even a new evasion component, that could be further explored by making Mokuton no Jutsu able to remove the self inflicting damage from Mijin no Jutsu.
Katon no Jutsu (B)
Katon no Jutsu can be any technique that deals with fire, and that includes explosives and smoke bombs, which were quite handy to make distractions during a mission. Here we see it performed by throwing a bomb forward, that itself isn’t enough to fit it as the execution doesn’t match the theme but when we take the stealth attribute into the mix it does get it right.
It’s a rather simple skill but it misses some theme aspects on the gameplay, one is by not making it a fire physical (strike or cannon perhaps) skill as the name means Fire Technique and the other is by lacking a debuff, either stun or blind, tied to it. One interesting feature to point out is that Katon no Jutsu can hit enemies multiple times based on positioning and size and this is something rare for swordsmen to have it in raw mechanics
Kunai (B)
Despise how media portrais it Kunais weren’t meant to be used as throwing weapons, as they act more like shovels than knives, unlike the shuriken, that was a distraction tool rather than deadly throwing weapon, which format suits this kind of use.
Kunai mechanic doesn’t match the theme. The animation displays it as ranged skill yet it is pierce damage, it may sound stupid to point that out but it is weird for it to be treated as a melee skill as it has multiple hitboxes and can hit the same enemy for each.
Potential Identity
Back when Bunshin no Jutsu clones had HP the class would be close to reach the ‘unreachable warrior’ identity considering skills and attributes and that fits the theme of Shinobi as they would ever strike first. Other classes have similar lines but they work on timing, raw stat boosts, contro debuffs or have to limit themselves for some time, and they may have equipment restrictions as well.
This can be achieved with few changes, Bunshin no Jutsu back to make clones that will have ADR, Katon no Jutsu to apply blind as stun can clash with other classes, Mokuton no Jutsu to be usable at all, Kunai can still make the cut if changed to shurikens and add a slow component. The only skill that can’t make the cut is Mijin no Jutsu unless it grants invincibility during the cast as it is self inflicting damage, yet it may be better to have a new skill designed for that nature.
On the way of what can be explored Kusarigana (sickle) can be interesting but it won’t fit this identity, not to mention that most of the possible employments of it would clash with Retiarii or other rope based skills. Going for tropes such as ninja magic go against the theme direction as it tries to stay closer to the real source, other fantasy weapons such as larger shurikens also clash with it. As for the best fit for it would either be a timing offensive skill or a mobility one as they can match this identity, the issue tho is that they’re already present in swordsmen and it would need to be really inventive to be acceptable.
Conclusion
Shinobi is clunky and deceiving (to players), apart from the two simpler skills, but that didn’t make it hit the ground. For the theme of the class it should have a really smooth and fluid gameplay but both Mijin no Jutsu and Mokuton no Jutsu staggers the whole experience, surprisingly Bunshin no Jutsu doesn’t fall into the same trap as their delay is consistent and can be overcomed easily.
Another issue the class has is how it allocates too much power into clones and that’s what defines Shinobi, this kind of design is dangerous as it relies too much on a single skill adjusting it can make players really angry, in fact this is the only reason the class is picked at all and it isn’t for it. I got to praise the fact they took notice on it and made all offensive skills useable with Bunshin no Jutsu and got it to waste no points, even tho Mokuton doesn’t have impact when planning builds.
| Theme | B |
|---|---|
| Gameplay | C |
| Cohesion | B |
| Point Distribution | C |
| Dropout | C |
Just as i said before the next one will be Sadhu and will be out in a couple of days, following that we’ll have Rune Caster and the soon to be revealed archer (that should be obvious at this point). As usual if you like it just interact with Design Breakdown in some form, be that by telling me i’m wrong or that i missed something, commenting on other interesting elements the class has, requesting classes or just a lazy like.