Tree of Savior Forum

Dear Wizards, this is "Truly the Darkest Age"

Class and Rank
#63

I think you are missing the bigger goal of balance in this game when you focus solely on DPS. Outside of DPS, what do utility does each path generally offer?

Swordie: Tanking via great self buffs and the ability to pull mobs together
Cleric: Healing and great party buffs
Archer: Some great self buffs, decent debuffs
Wizard: Great debuffs, great party buffs, decent pet power (free’s up caster to do other things while dps’ing), some healing (featherfoot), and the ability to pull mobs together.

Granted not every wiz build can take advantage of all of those possibilities, but every wiz has a chance to have whichever utility they fancy while also pursing decent DPS.
So its not a good comparison to only compare wiz to say, swordie. You have to compare both DPS & Utility. Such as; a petalista1 barbarian3 has mob pulling utility + aoe DPS. Well a pyromancer2 linker2 also has mob pulling utility + aoe DPS. These are similar enough in purpose that you could begin to compare and contrast the two.

Lastly on world bosses, Psyhic Pressure + Ice Wall + Isa Rune (300% ice dmg) + Frost Cloud or Necro/Summon pets might be the best world boss killing class combo.

#64

I don’t know why people cry balance when general understanding of RPGs tells you that:
swordie = tank
Mage = ranged magical DPS
Archer = ranged physical DPS
Cleric = Support

I see this in ToS and I am satisfied.

Won’t complain about balance until actual pvp content graces us, until then I’d rather keep the pitchforks in the shed.

As for pve so long as they improve garage skills and continue to work on bugs I got no complaints. Balancing can come once every skill is viable.

#65

Except that cleric actually deal crazy amount of damage in ToS.

ToS isn’t really a balanced game yet, the numbers have to be tweaked here and there. That aside, I do somewhat agree with you on the aspect of balance some used as argument. For example, it’s obvious that cryo and psychokino is CC and PVP class, but there are always people complaining about them not doing as much damage as pyro in PVE.

#66

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#67

Tbh from the consumer side of perspective, I don’t really care about the hardwork they did, after all they received salary to do their job.

I would say that’s the common performance to be expected from the development team, unless they are not receiving the standard pay (these works would only be impressive if they are working for free or a very low pay).

#68

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3 Likes
#69

Too bad most players are just average consumers.

Pay don’t correlate with performance. But you are expected to at least give performance as much as the pay. The work is impressive and should be praised only if your performance is better than your pay.

From what I seen now, ToS Dev is only doing as much workload as what a common salaryman would.

People like you overpraising the MMO dev is why the quality of some MMO is always below average.

#70

I understand that clerics are also quite umm strong? I’m still quite indifferent to it though. Every class can solo content until 130 for the most part do they’d have to be.

Rather then nerf clerics I’d rather they bring others up to par, besides I like that the “support” class is strong, it’ll encourage others to play clerics, and I love heals.

I’ve been creeping so I’m a little up to date on the patches and fixes in ktos and I’m content, especially when I saw the swordie improvents (speed improvement, faster/improved thrust aoe). Also I’m a thankless player, devs shall get no thanks from me, none! (I’ll buy from cash shop that’s my thanks.)

#71

If clerics are equally good at dmg as dmg dealing classes then there will be no point not to be cleric, who has heals.
If others had at least self heals or MP recovery spell (or HP to MP transfer) then i’d call them equal to clerics. Right now clerics are superior.

#72

When I say up to par, I really just mean balancing and as balancing and updates are happening i got nothing to say. A game that has multiple class paths, having dps clerics doesn’t stike me as nerf this. But much like the QS buff I saw recently, give it time and other classes will get their fine tuning.

That being said I only played swordies and I don’t know much about clerics in ToS, both their skills and classes or how unfair? They may be. So I can’t say much on the matter.

#73

Saying that you shouldn’t take a rank in peltasta because another peltasta may exist in your party and you become redundant is like saying you shouldn’t take heal because another cleric may exist. How is having two people who can each taunt 11 targets a bad thing in a party? Pull more than 11 mobs at once.

Also taking a point in Peltasta isn’t a huge detriment if your other choice is Swordsman c2. So what if in some situations you aren’t 100% useful because someone else has the same class, you’re still more useful than you would be as Swordsman c2. Swordsman C2 is NOT notable higher DPS. You’re talking about an increase of 15 physical attack. I would much rather have a 2nd person taunting and bringing in more mobs while the 1st Peltasta’s taunt was on cooldown.

I have to ask, have you used restrain 5? It rarely ever procs stun, it says 20% but in practice it’s really not even close. I don’t know why, but it’s not even worth using at lvl5 ( and I’m saying this because I ran a swordsman c2 build ). I don’t consider restrain 5 a lasting ability. Pain Barrier isn’t niche, it’s pretty much necessary for boss fighting on a melee now since they just spam knockdowns. Boss fights are another reason taking a rank in Peltasta is so good, you can swap on a shield for when bosses are going crazy with knockdowns ( or certain bosses that AI only consists of charging at you with a knockdown, like Netherbovine ), and just block the knockdown. The best way to increase your boss dps is to not spend all your time on the floor or getting pushed around. What is a swordsman c2 going to do against a boss knockdown?

Taking only wiz c2 or only swordsman c2 are equally bad decisions.

#74

Who said you Shouldn’t.
I said pretty clearly in the case of another peltasta swashbuckling is less significant.
You can bring Restrain to the table, yeah I know about the RNG I had a C2 - Hoplite -Cataphract in ICBT2, Also did Peltasta C2.
There’s a clear difference between Restrain doing something sometimes, and Surespell doing something rarely.
Yeah bosses knock back a lot. How do you think that works for Wizard classes if their primary damage source is a 10s channel. The level 103 boss was beyond frustrating giving his retarded health pool, and that every 4s he throws out a knockback meaning you have to interrupt the channel after about 3-4 hits to go flipping dodge. This is a channel on a 30s cd where your only other attacks are Energy Bolt and Earthflippingquake, when Lethargy 100% strike bonus is broken and you’re doing next to nothing unless you get ballsy and just hope his attack misses while you stay channeling. Surespell, being straight garbage.
Swordsman C2 bases aren’t going to run into this issue, Yes you can block as a Peltasta as well, wonderful two classes can do something, hell Highlander bases can cross guard wonderful. Cleric doesn’t have that significant commitment on anything. Wizard C3 has Swift Cast to help get things off in the window of time. Icewall and Firewall (if you’re even using it) don’t care about surespell, hell they have their own quick use function.

You just stand to lose with Wizard C2. Runic Shield is lovely with its 45s cd to boot.
Its an absolute garbage circle. Pain barrier, Restrain, Hell Pommel Beat. Crap all over Wiz C2.

Even still I don’t get how this got derailed so hard into swordsman discussion but whatever. To cease splitting hairs, I am not positing that Swordsman C2 runs equivalent to Peltasta C1 or Highlander C1, only that it still brings things to the table with functionality that will outlive it and clearer situations where it can hold water, then Wizard C2 where if you’re not going Wiz C3 which requires it, it has no value, as it’s a near worthless step.
Ebolt 10 sucks, Earthquake 10 sucks. Sleep 10 is fine, Runic 10 is mediocre. Surespell is pointless in the knockback heavy world, so Linker and Psyko, the options to switch off from the circle don’t need it, and its a liability to them both given they’re losing significant damage and CC options.

Will we have to go around in a circle again about Swordsman C2? I hope not :o.

#75

Lethargy attribute is working fine for me and my friend monk.

#76

It is not working for me at all.

#77

True it’s not necessary but A smart person will rotate swashbucklings with the other person.
Or use it to take Agro off the other other swordie if they by chance have low hp.

It’s also incredibly valuable when soloing even if it is common.
Especially if you went Barb at some point.
Swashbuckling + warcry = ez mobing

Edit:
Restrain and Swordsman C2 are TRASH
Infact swordsman c1 is kinda trashy but it’s required so what can you do…

#78

Puts on hsi sunglasses

THIS AGAIN~

throws sunglasses away

Seriuosly.
Any class is valid to play.

You can’t min max a class, they will suck at somethign always.

Archer was before the buff, still the best single target dps dealer.
I kille da slevel 90ish player the 90dungeon bos sin 2 multishot charges… without my team giving as much as a chance to even do something worthful. While being not highly equiped.

(BUT I WOULD only tickle large mobs of enemys… even less, if they’re not flyign type.)

–

Wiz is still strong.
Swordy is still strong.
Archer is still strong.
Cleris is still OP xD. (Block+ Safety+heals … don’t need to add anything to that. Luckily fletcher might get buffed to kill safety… too)

Swordys are just really good at early game, late game he’S a fine tanker and dpsler too.
Wiz get hardcore good, when you need massive amounts of dot damage or AOE.
Archer are choice of class, either your AOE heavy or single dps heavy. < extremly good atk=dps saceling.
Celris… still broken xD.

But hey.

I bet you didnt play at all … and not to the max level.
There’s tons of stuff a certain build can do.
As long as you didnt mess up stuff to hardcore, no one should shuu you away.

I played wizz 3 before buff … and felt good.
Specially with the fact, that sleep + energybolt was like an 250% magic atk+skill dps atk. Even without attributes.
The moment i got an linker in a party, eyes started to roll … together with the enemys blood.

#79

^ Run Wiz-C2-PsyC 3 and come back to me. Hombre.
Yeah you can play everything that doesn’t mean its good. Hell doesn’t even mean its within 70% of good.

You can write a paper, so what if it got a 20% it’s still readable right.

#80

:expressionless: I don’t know of anyone that would choose psycho c3 :confused:

Wiz 3 > psycho 2 is more common and logical :\

#81

lol I made one in cbt2 for testing. It’s pretty bad. Psycho needs some more interesting skills that are like Psychic Pressure and interact with other wizard skills. Magnetic Earth / Gravity Pole are not interesting and mostly useless.

#82

Ya, that’s true. IMHO, what’s most needed in the psycho class is a buff to Magnetic Force. It needs AoE attack ratio to scale with level, together with a damage buff that’d look somewhat like this lv10: “200% + 1000” and a bigger AoE, because its AoE is just sad right now.