Sort of? I can’t read japanese, but looking at the formulas it’s definitely not accounting for everything and its doing stuff like elemental attacks seperately instead of just plain within the formula (I mean, it’s not wrong, it’s just messy)
Where would you put actual elemental resistance in that formula? I was playing around with conviction(It lowers resistances to fire/ice/elec/poison by -100 each). I originally thought it would be a t4 before testing.
These were the data from some tests on level 155 pink tree moles.
The zaibas is level 10 with 40% attribute, no magic amplify with a straight 365-365.
Base Zaibas 595
Zaibas Convicted 735
Zaibas Karacha 894
Zaibas Karacha convicted 1174
Zaibas Cryolight 606
Zaibas Cryolight Convicted 886
Zaibas Karacha Cryolight 905
Zaibas Karacha Crryolight Convicted 1325
Physical attack power was 423-455 with a hammer against a non strike weak enemy. I only picked the high and low values I saw in a short duration, so not incredibly accurate.
Base auto 190-214
auto attack cryolight 196-216
auto atack cryolight convicted 271-294
auto attack karacha 351-372
auto attack karacha convicted 428-450
auto attack karacha cryolight 358-380
auto attack karacha cryolight convicted 513-529
Barrier attribute was simply 100% of my magic attack. Has no actual skill damage attribute modifier.
Base Barrier 154
Barrier Karacha 368
Barrier Karacha convicted 468
Barrier cryolight 162
Barrier cryolight convicted 262
Barrier karacha cryolight 376
Barrier Karacha cryolight convicted 576
Heal was with a 15% attribute
Heal 265
Heal Cryo 274
Heal Cryo Convicted 389
Heal Karacha 511
Heal Karacha convicted 626
Heal cyro karacha 520
Heal Cyro Karacha convicted 750
I expected this to work like Barrier does. It would just add 100 damage per element. However Zaibas gets 140 damage per element. Heal get 115 damage per element. Which is the same as the attribute modifiers of the skill. Found a mob weak to lightning and the difference between convicted or not became 280 for Zaibas by itself.
Can I get the actual tooltip skill attack values for the skills you used? I have no idea how much int you have so I cant just use the skill calc’s values, as heal and zaibas are X+INT
As for Barrier and Auto Attack, I’ll check those out in a bit
Edit:
154 : 365 - 211
368 : 365 - 211 + 154 (Fire Attack) + 61 (Damage versus middle type) (I still need to test exactly where these “Damage versus X +” modifiers go, but I think they go after crit but before the rest, just like Elemental Attack)
468 : 365 - 211 + (154 - (0 - 100)) + 61 (Negative elemental resistance becomes a positive increase of 100)
162 : 365 - 211 + 8 (Ice Attack)
262 : 365 - 211 + (8 - (0 - 100)) (Same as before, negative becomes increase)
376 : 365 - 211 + (154 + 8) + 61 (Off by 1 damage for some reason? Should be 377 and there’s no rounding going on.)
576 : 365 - 211 + ((154 - (0 - 100)) + (8 - (0 - 100))) + 61 (Two elements, resistance increases damage twice.)
So far, before I get into modifiers, it seems to just put elemental resists next to the elemental attack in the formula, like so:
(Elemental Attack - (Elemental Resistance - Resistance Debuff)) * Elemental Modifier [+ … Repeat for other elements]
Yeah, this should work for your other examples too. It puts the resistance before the other modifiers, as I would’ve expected it to.
100 Poison Attack and - 100 Poison Resistance are virtually the same in PvE because no mobs that I know (besides ones with the Resist Elements buff) actively resist elements. The big difference however is that the Attack will always apply no matter what, but the Resistance decrease will only apply if you do an attack that includes that element in its formula somewhere. Having Ice Resist - but no Ice Attack wont make the resist do anything.
Will add to the formula for more complete-ness
Skill tooltip is 271 for zaibas. Skill tooltip for heal is 77. I have 10 int.
I will probably do some tests later to see if this occurs before or after magic defense for elemental skills.
Edit: Actually that would probably only be possible if there was an actual t0 elemental skill. I wonder if earth wave crits would get the bonus from the elemental resistances.
It maybe just me, but I prefer your old formatting. It’s much easier to find all the info.
Magic Defense is in the same place as defense, that definitely doesn’t change. You could just use a physical skill with Conviction up, get it to crit, and find out that way. Running the math for heal and zaibas, it fits the little addition I made to the formula perfectly, so I doubt it’ll be before defense.
Would need an actual elemental physical skill to do that though. Earth wave is one but conviction doesn’t lower earth resistance. Also with Zaibas its not completely clear. If I had 1 electric attack stat would the bonus still be 140 or would it be 280.
You don’t need an elemental physical skill.
Using a normal physical skill while conviction is up and you have some Fire or Ice attack will still make the modifier for elements apply to that elemental attack. It just wont be applied to the entire attack, as you can see if you go through the formula.
That’s already enough to determine if the resist debuff goes before crit or not. If the formula works out, it’s after it, next to the actual Fire Attack. If it doesn’t, it’s somewhere else.
Also, if you want accurate physical attacks, just take off your weapon and any Maximum Attack increases. There wont be a range then.
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Example:
100 Attack, 12 Fire Attack, 200 Damage Physical Skill with no Element
50 Defense, Ice Enemy
((100 + 200) - 50) + (12 * 1.5) = 268 Damage
((((100 + 200) - 50) * 1.5) + 0 Crit Attack) + (12 * 1.5) = 393 Critical Damage
That is how it works not counting Conviction. If the resist goes where I’m fairly sure at this point it goes then the result is :
((100 + 200) - 50) + ((12 - (0 - 100)) * 1.5) = 418 Damage
((((100 + 200) - 50) * 1.5) + 0 Crit Attack) + ((12 - (0 - 100)) * 1.5) = 588 Damage
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Added Piercing from Hoplite to the list. Amazingly enough, it’s a T3 modifier! Now I need to rename the tier…qq
+100% on Medium, +200% on Large, (And +300% on Bosses if you have the C2 attribute)
Yes that’s right. C2 Pierce is basically Meteor (albeit a different tier) without a cast time. Hoplite please.
I guess what I am trying to say is the tests I posted don’t necessarily prove that Zaibas elemental skill damage is the same as the elemental damage from elemental attack stats. It could possibly influence it earlier in the calculation.
That is why testing physical attacks with elemental attack stats is pointless for this. If it was possible earlier in the calculation a physical elemental stat would help narrow down where it was. For instance this:
Makes me suspect that possibly there could be a place specifically for if the skill is elemental. Otherwise using conviction on ice enemies with zaibas should be giving me 140 x 400%.
In simpler words, you’re trying to figure out if Conviction does anything (and when it does this) to elemental skills besides it affecting the Elemental Attack stat of that element.
Did I get that right?
Correct. If it works like the elemental attack stat it should be a higher bonus than 280 on ice monsters.
Currently on level 151 Rambear Archers an ice enemy:
Base Zaibas 1330
Convicted Zaibas 1610
Shouldn’t the convicted value be 1890 if it acted only on elemental attack value stats?
I think I already know what’s happening.
The formula adjusts itself based on the element of the skill you’re using, and automatically includes that element as an “Elemental Attack” of 0 (+however much you have in the actual stat). This causes Resist decreases to take effect because even with no Elemental Attack, that part of the formula will still exist.
So for Zaibas (with no other elemental attack) you end up with
((Attack + Skill Attack) - Defense) + (0 - (Resist - 100)) * 2 * 1.4
(((365 + 270) - 161) + (0 - (0 - 100))) * 2 * 1.4 = 1610
The only thing missing right now is why that -100 isn’t affected by the first elemental modifier in the main formula. It’s entirely possible the base elemental attack is multiplied first (in this case, 0 * 2) and THEN the resistances are taken into account. Do you think you could get some Lightning Attack somewhere and try again?
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I’m starting to think the game just does + (Resist - Resist Debuff) without another modifier for all elemental skills, adding that at the end of the main part before the normal modifier tiers, like this:
(((Skill Attack + (Attack * (100% + Attack Modifier)) + (random(0% … 100%) * Magic Amplification) * (100% + T0)) - ((Defense - Defense Debuff) * (100% + Level Penalty))) * (100% + (0 or 50% if crit)) + (0 or Critical Attack) + (Elemental Damage) + (Elemental Resist - Resist Debuff)) …
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A Wugushi would be absolutely perfect to test this with. The problem is I have no idea if the attacks have their own actual skill damage or if the listed damage is just the poison damage (which I dont believe can crit either)
I’ll try to find an electric attack item. Not sure of any clerics can use.
Technically I could see what happens when elemental physical attack mobs critically hit my character. Could even use conversion to get them to attack other monsters. Would be a nightmare to try to do though, and not sure if it would provide any useful data.
Edit: This is possibly more useful than I thought. Mobs like wendigo searchers proc fire resistance on every auto attack. However whenever they use the poison arrow skills the main hit of the arrow doesn’t proc poison resist or fire resist. Then each tick of poison procs poison resist separately. Unfortunately, I will have to record this to get any kind of accurate critical hit value since instead of having a damage number pop up it just says critical while my health drops.
Added “Additional damage to X enemy” stats to the formula (like say, medium, plant, large, demon, beast etc.)
It goes after Crits and before everything else just like Elemental Attack.
These are done with Wendigo searchers attacking my character with varying resistances. My character is 179 while they are 169 so they get no bonus attack versus my character. They have an attack of 1288-1495 along with 122 critical attack and deal fire damage with their auto attacks. These don’t have any elemental attack value since their skill poison arrow does not proc fire resistance.
Physical Defense for the tests are 218 for 106 resist and 26 resist. For 0 resist it is 165.
At 106 Resistance to Fire:
Criticals:
((1288~1495)-(218))(1.5)+(122)-(106)=1621~1931.5 Out of 7 crits I got a range of 1587~1856. One crit went outside of the potential range.
(Atk-Def) x (critmult)+(crit damage)-(resistance)= Potential Damage
Normals:
((1288~1495)-(218))-(106)=964~1171 Out of 18 normal attacks I got a range of 974~1133
(Atk-Def)-(resistance)= Potential Damage
At 26 Resistance to Fire:
Criticals:
((1288~1495)-(218))(1.5)+(122)-(26)=1701-2011 Out of 4 crits I got a range of 1772~1994
(Atk-Def) x (critmult)+(crit damage)-(resistance)= Potential Damage
Normals:
((1288~1495)-(218))-(26)=1044-1251 Out of 39 normal attacks I got a range of 1051~1238
(Atk-Def)-(resistance)= Potential Damage
At 0 Resistance to Fire:
Criticals:
((1288~1495)-(165))(1.5)+(122)-(0)=1806~2117 Out of 4 crits I got a range of 1876~2093
(Atk-Def) x (critmult)+(crit damage)-(resistance)= Potential Damage
Normals:
((1288~1495)-(165))-(0)=1123~1330 Out of 28 normal attacks I got a range of 1127~1322
(Atk-Def)-(resistance)= Potential Damage
If resistance is tallied before crit:
Resistance 106
((1288~1495)-(218)-(106))(1.5)+(122)=1568~1878 Which is within the range of 1587~1856 found in testing
(atk-def-res)(critmult)+(crit damage)= Potential Damage
Resistance 26
((1288~1495)-(218)-(26))(1.5)+(122)=1688~1998 Which is within the range of 1772~1994 found in testing
(atk-def-res)(critmult)+(crit damage)= Potential Damage
Overall if a mob uses a physical elemental damage attack against the player’s resistance is applied before crit. I would assume this works the same way with player attacks. So skills like Zaibas should be getting its additional damage from -resistance before the crit multiplier in the formula. I can gather more critical hit data to solidify the claim though it would have to wait till after the holiday weekend.
https://youtu.be/Gk8sqguv204 video of some of the testing. Crit out of estimate occurs at 0:52-0:55.
Upgrading Bow and Size Penalty testing:
Used level 1 bow on large monsters, finding damage ranges with no gear equipped:
Results: +0 = 50%, +1 = 46% +2 = 42% … +10 = 10%, +11 = 10%, +12 = 10%, +13 = 10%, +14 = 10%, +15 = 10%
At that point I stopped testing, so summary = +10 Bow gives you best result at +4% improvement per upgrade. Anything above that does not do anything. Too lazy to test medium, but I would imagine it would work the same with +10 weapon having a 5% penalty.
This bow is very stronk: http://puu.sh/lz8gM/ef26c13ab9.jpg
Seems good enough. I’ve already updated the formula for now as it still fits the earlier testing too.
The only thing now is to do Zaibas while you have Lightning Attack, to see if it applies the resist to both Zaibas itself and the additional lightning attack seperately
Any idea how to fit ice shard from ice wall into formula
It SHOULD just be under Additional Attack, doing 100% of your Magic Attack as damage per icicle. I’ve been meaning to test it but I forgot about it.
I assume you mean medium would go up by 2% per upgrade then, rather than 4%. Granted, would need to test. Thanks for the Large penalty though!
I just realized : Monsters with Resist Element exist. That boosts Earth Resist. Could test Earth Wave on them. (I dont have a cataphract though)
Farmed the mats for an Elektus which has 10 electric attack
On Rambear Archer with Zaibas 271 skill attack value with 40% attribute. Magic atk 365.
Plain Zaibas 1330
Convicted Zaibas 1610
Elektus Zaibas 1386
Elektus Zaibas convicted 2226
((271+365-161+100)+(10+100)(2))(2)(1.4)= 2226
((skill atk+mag atk -mag def +resistance debuff)+(Elec atk + resistance debuff)(Elemental modifier))(Elemental Modifier)(Attributes)= Damage
So both are checking elemental resistance separately. I think the reason the additional elemental values are separated out is that they probably can be resisted separately. For instance when I have resist elements on I have 14% to resist element attacks. This includes physical ones like with the wendigo searchers however it shows up as a miss instead. If element attack resistance occured at the same time as element skill attack resist it would be possible to lose your entire attack because of those stats. So they are separating it out so they resist on their own without affecting the rest of the attack. That way in pvp players wouldn’t have their entire non elemental attack be resisted while using an arde dagger.