Tree of Savior Forum

Consider giving all classes the ability to dash (making Stamina Points relevant)

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#82

Okay? Idk how you can compare a normal sprint attack to a mounted move attack. Pouncing is literally just being able to attack while sprinting. Which you can already do manually. And it doesn’t change the fact that you can get CC’d anyway. Plus you only move in a straight direction. So no. It’s not useful in PvP.

Also doesn’t make sense. You need to manually jump in order to use Stomping Kick. If you played the game, you’d notice that jumping doesn’t get you very far. You’d be able to dodge the CC but then you can do that without Stomping Kick anyway. So no again.

Imagine this then. A Swordsman and a CC Wizard both have sprint, the Swordie runs up and right before it gets to the Wiz, it gets CC’d. The Wiz casts a spell and then sprints away, negating the distance the Swordie closes. Rinse and repeat. Swordie dead. Considering how strong the spells are in this game in relation to the HP people have, the stamina of people would last way longer than their HP when being hit by spells.

We’re mentioning CC, because it’s a big part of it. Just because not all of them have CC doesn’t automatically mean they should be allowed sprinting. And that’s not the ONLY part of it anyway. Clerics have damage negating spells, Swordies don’t. Archers are pure range. Wiz, as you said, have a lot of CC. Giving everyone sprint, aside from Cleric in my opinion, would just make Swordies pointless in PvP.

  1. I know there’s no way to balance all 80 classes for PvP but that doesn’t mean you should just ignore what you can at least help to balance
  2. Assuming you both have balanced teams, but the other team doesn’t have a Swordie, you’d probably die before you get to them as you’ll be the only one who needs to get close while your team is doing ■■■■ from a distance and because they know you’ll be a threat if you do
  3. The Cataphract argument again forces you to go a specific class

I never said they were useless. I even said they were strong in PvE and that’s because that’s the major use of the tree. DPS is the only thing that Swordies at good at. But, like I said, that’s mainly PvE when you’re fighting dumb AI. I ignored your “most of my post was about PvE” because you can’t balance around just one aspect of a game. Especially when a big part of the game is PvP.

I answered this already. Include the fact that they have to actually be in range to do damage. And again, PvE isn’t the only part of this game.

In any case, I’m going Archer and probably not going PvP a whole lot anyway. So I don’t mind if they do or don’t add sprint. I just think it’ll be pretty bad for Swordies if they do.

#83

Pouncing is like Rush in the fact that you are moving whole attacking, I didn’t say it was as good as Rush. You’re arguing against a point I didn’t make. Swordie gets in melee range and the wiz/archer tries to run, he can chase them down while doing damage. Rush us better at this but Pouncing has some use in pvp. And no, you can’t do Pouncing manually. When you attack on the ground, your character stops moving forward for the duration of the animation. If you could do pouncing manually, then what’s the point of the skill? If you’re gonna be jumping and attacking well that leads into my next point.

Stomping Foot. I compared this to Long Stride and said that Stride is better which is obvious. The point of my comment was that swordie have other skills available to them aside from Trot and Long stride that can possibly help them against range in pvp. That’s it. Nothing more than that.

#84

I never said you said it was as good as Rush. I said you COMPARED it to Rush. Which you did. And what’s the point of it if you give everyone sprint? Your rush won’t be able to reach them anyway. And I don’t THINK you can change directions while using Rush because it looks like a channeling skill in the skill video. So any smart player will just side step it.

As for Stomping Kick, you have to manually jump. Have you tried manually jumping? It doesn’t get you far. And sprinting while jumping doesn’t increase the jump range either. Additionally, all other classes can jump too. So they could just jump themselves. So this doesn’t help them against range. Idk why you don’t get this.

#85

Ok, it seems like everyone completely forgot how sprint works, so let me clarify:

  1. Sprint has a start up time, making attack-kiting worthless
  2. You cannot attack while sprinting
  3. It increases your movement speed by 10 (Base is 30)

Even if it was kept in PvP for everyone (which, once again I’d like to mention I’m not in favor of), it wouldn’t really change anything, as swordsmen still would be forced to constantly sprint to reach targets, whom wouldn’t be sprinting as much as everyone is worried about (if they’re concerned about actually attacking).

By the way, you can change directions using Rush. You literally run around at top speed, murdering everything you touch with a spinning death stick.

Also, PvP isn’t as big as a part of the game as everyone is making it out to be. At least in the Korean version, it’s limited to only being up every other hour, for an hour, in which there are queues where you can wait around and do whatever, or actually watch the “current” match(es) going on.

Also, thanks for picking and choosing through my discussion, as I love being critiqued by someone who only talks about what they want to talk about, as well as having no actual experience past level 100 or in PvP.

#86

This makes it worse for Swordies then even if you don’t give others sprint. And if you do give it to everyone, it doesn’t change anything. So Idk what your point is with this.

Also makes it worse for Swordies if you don’t go Pouncing or Rush.

So not by much, again making it not that good for Swordies in the first place.

How does it not change anything? It makes it harder for Swordies to reach their target. How does that NOT change anything? As I said before, they could just CC, sprint, attack and repeat. It changes a lot.

Woops I meant Pouncing. But still, I answered this already. It forces you to go a specific class just to be viable for PvP. If they gave other classes gap closing skills then I think it’ll be less of a problem if they give everyone sprint.

Serious question about this. Will it be like that even during release? Maybe it’s only like that because it’s Beta. Haven’t heard anything about this so Idk. But generally, PvP IS important. Especially end game when there are fewer things to do.

This is kind of hypocritical considering the only thing you answered from me was what I replied to Spaghetti and ignored everything else I said. And the only thing I didn’t answer from you was you focusing on PvE. And then I answered it afterwards. As for the no actual experience, well not everyone is as lucky as you who got to play kcbt/pvp. But considering you hardly answered much of what I said, I guess your “experience” doesn’t really amount to much.

#87

That list was comprised of factual statements about the current state of sprinting in the game.

Regarding CC’s, you said “CC, sprint, attack and repeat” - the sprint part is arbitrary, as the person is supposedly CC’d. Also, most CC’s have a fairly decent cooldown.

I’m pretty sure PvP will remain the same, as the spectating system is fairly unique and a feature I’m sure they want to be actually relevant to the game.

I’m tired of defending myself to (and correcting) someone who isn’t bringing anything relevant or constructive to the table, so I’ll state my actual opinion on the matter one last time:

Sprinting should be given to all classes for better balanced map travelling, which is a LARGE part of the game, as well as a method to make stamina a resource relevant to all classes. For simplicity’s sake, I also will say sprinting shouldn’t be allowed for ranged classes, even though it definitely would be as broken as everyone is worried about. Either this, or unique stamina consuming abilities for each tree (MP recovery channel, dodge roll, etc).

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#88

Then I’d like to ask for archers/wizards to have to melee to tag mobs, all their skills be subjected to AoE ratio/splash limitation for better balanced mob gathering/killing, which is a LARGE part of grinding (and arguably LARGER part of the game)

Also, travelling isn’t as big as a part of the game as you’re making it out to be.

Besides, I’m about 90% sure IMC will add a mount-only companion at some point in the future, which would let all classes be able to travel at mounted speed (however fast that is)

#89

Wait, I commented prior in this thread and said I’m against all classes having sprint in pvp. I never said give everyone sprint in pvp. Where did you get that from? Again, my whole point was that there are other skills that may help swordies out in pvp other Long Stride and Trot. That was all I was talking about in that comment. You think my input was bad, ok fine. But I wasn’t arguing against you at all lol and you’re arguing against something I wasn’t even talking about.

Idk how much of that game you seen, but you can change direction while using Rush and Pouncing. Heck, Cataphract was changing direction with Rush in the Cataphract trailer video IMC released before kcbt1. And if you’ve watched any of the many barb3 doppel pve pvp videos you will clearly see the barb changing direction with Pouncing. You didn’t even check to see if your own statements we’re true before you put them out.

“They didn’t change direction with those skills in this 5 second video, so it must not be possible then. No, I will not look for videos or official trailers with these skills I’m action to confirm people actually use these skills.” K.

#90

I even said earlier I am fine with the system as it is now with only Swordies having sprint , I plan on making multiple swordie characters before trying other branches out. I did say I will be fine if other classes get sprint in pve, but I am against other branches getting sprint in pvp.

#91

No no, I read what you said that you didn’t want them to have sprint in PvP. And I was wrong about the Rush/Pouncing thing. That’s why I said I think. I wasn’t sure. And I’m sorry about that. And I honestly don’t think your input was bad at all. It really makes sense. What I was arguing about was that the Pouncing thing won’t make much of a difference IF they give the others sprint like the other people want. Since that’s what this thread is about. I get that it’s a gap closer. But if the others get sprint, it negates Pouncing entirely. That’s all I’m saying.

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#92

…and teleports for all classes, including pets

#93

OOO i like it and then every class can have infinite hp and sp and all the skills with 0 cd and and infinite stat points. And now there were all the exact same the game is better right?

#94

Tagging mobs doesn’t exist - it’s a percentage based claim system.

The majority of Archer skills are single target or have fairly small AoEs.

The majority of Wizard AoEs are on a long cooldown.

And yes it is, as most decent grinding areas aren’t directly next to a statue like everyone’s favorite garden.

#95

Ok fair enough. I didn’t understand the point of your rebuttal at first given that I already stated I was against other branches sprinting in pvp, maybe you didn’t see my first comment that got buried in this thread. Anywho, no harm no foul. :smile:

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#96

Hahaha. No worries man. I get too passionate about these things sometimes. So it can seem that I get a little bit aggressive. Especially with things that could be unfair in my opinion. :stuck_out_tongue_closed_eyes:

#97

I don’t mean tagging for claiming exp, I mean tagging as in damaging monsters so it’ll chase after you, y’know MOB GATHERING part I mention next?

Well, most of Swordsman skills are either single target, or the AoE is right in front of us,

AoEs are on long cooldown, but you spend a lot of time gathering mobs and usually you don’t need to use all of them…

“Most decent grinding areas” hmm…
Tell me, where are the ones not next to statue and how long does it take to run (the normal run, not swordsman sprint) from nearest statue to there?
And how long do you usually grind in that one spot?

And are you going to ignore the possibility of mount-able companion part in my post?

#98

They already considered it. They decided not to for balance reasons.

#99

I welcome the idea that all classes can dash. It couldn’t be a balance issue. Monk is in the cleric category, it has melee fighting too. What can go wrong with other classes dashing?

#100

For you to ask that question it seems that you didn’t read through some of the comments on this thread.

Swordies have very limited gap closers and utility to cc the other branches. Archers have stealth, mounted range attacks, and strong single target range attacks and have cc options. Wizards can cover large areas and easily cc with their undogdeable Magic attacks and are able to one shot with certain builds. Clerics… where do I begin.

On paper and in pratice, swordies have the easiest time face rolling their way in pve especially in icbt, but likewise they are low when it comes to pvp. But with sprint they stand a better chance.

#101

The only way this could be made fair would be to either:
Give other classes a slower dash or make swordsman dash faster.
or give other classes a dash that can only be used when the player has been outside of combat for 5 sec or so (so they can use it for getting through areas faster, but can’t use it for kiting advantage).

A short burst increase wouldn’t be an effective means of preserving their gap closer advantage, and adding negatives to it (like your suggestion of 3x stamina usage) would make things a lot worse.