Well anyhow, I would really like this Idea be implemented since I have been really disappointed with my very first char [in which I retrieved a lot of premiums items and even bought it a costume] that my build was just really isn’t for me… So yeah, I guess having this potion / scroll is fair enough… And yaz I currently have a lvl 166 Pure Support as my main now after having the Level 100 Wrongly-built mage… If only the premium items can be traded within the same account with the same class ( for example; mage > mage) I think it’s cool since I spent TP on it already and I really feel bad deleting it. Time / Effort / Money have been wasted by doing so.
Tells me not a lot of thought has been put into the idea.
Actual class identity is made up of your total classes, not your base class. Archer - Wizard? How is that different from Druid - Plaguedoctor?
Both are vastly different.
This however, I would consider a much better idea. Provided the exp ratio stayed the same.
It’s completely understandable that people don’t want to lose the progress they made on achievements and what not.
Simply allowing for accountwide silver and accountwide Adventure Journal would solve this, I think.
I will ignore this. I did not read this.
The entire Adventure Journal, imo. + Premium and silver.
I agree that the total identy is the sum of all classes.
I am however not keen on the idea that the ‘identity’ should stay exactly the same forever. While not being able to change base tree is more of a compromise, whilst also prevent extremes like someone wanting to go support but plays swordsman then class change. Also it makes sense.
Accountwide silver, premium and the likes would be nice, however, kind of seems like IMC is not on board with that.
And even if it did sometime in the future, it wouldn’t fix someones build and time put on it. It would be more reroll friendly but still not enough for many I suspect.
Still not convinced that is a big enough reason for not having a class reset because of all the reasons listed in my first post.
A class reset doesn’t mean anti identity anyhow.
It would help, agreed, but it wouldn’t fix the biggest reason (I suspect) that people want a reset; time wasted.
And don’t get me started on why it would be time wasted for many, already had that discussion and it should be fairly obvious now that not everyone likes to replay this game.
And it doesn’t matter what the playerbase wants on that matter apparently so I think it’s kind of a moot argument to come with.
Well I did read and feedback’d on your suggestion, it just doesn’t bring anything to table so to speak since 1) IMC doesn’t want more teamwide things apparently and 2) it still doesn’t fix the build and the immense time put on it.
What do you base this on? Because as far as my own assumptions go, IMC doesnt want a reset of any kind (that isnt related to new patches)
My suggestion is something atleast most of the community can agree on, unlike resets.
And as mentioned, it does help those that want a reset right now, because they would lose so much if they were to recreate their character.
That immense time is lost regardless. You can’t get back spend time.
Time wasted playing a game you should be enjoying. Yes, that argument has been done before.
So what it all comes down to in the end is not wanting to spend more time playing the game.
If you feel that way, why even bother to make a suggestion for something part of the playerbase wants?
They aren’t against it in a apparent way either, they have no statement on it. However, the teamwide stuff they’ve made rather clear if you read their latest patch on the matter.
With my suggestion you most certainly can make it feel less lost anyhow, which is the main purpose.
A small minority likes to replay a game that takes several hundred hours to play. It really isn’t that hard to imagine why many don’t. First and second, maybe even third replay, depending on the person, wouldn’t be a huge deal. After that, it isn’t that fun anymore.
Actually playing the game I don’t think people mind, that’s what they wanna do afterall in an enjoyable fashion. Such as PvP, dungeon, guild and all the other fun stuff you generally do in an mmo. A replay of the same quest, through the same map, taking about the same amount of long time is not the same thing and it’s absurd to compare them.
Because this specific topic IMC hasn’t said anything about, this suggestion hasn’t had a statement. That is why I’m suggesting it, I wouldn’t suggest something they’ve already handled.
And because many want this feature and I feel it’s a crucial part of a game.
I’ll prolly not be back for more debate today, I have dogs and puppies to care for!
I want to throw my two cents into the mix. I have been a long time gamer and played many mmos. I have livestreamed for 4 years as well as make youtube vids. Long story short I have seen alot in the gaming world. One thing I can add to this is that you are dealing with the western world. We thrive on choices in everything, including our games. You could make the argument that ToS is a harcore game that if you make build mistakes, you should have to reroll. But think about how off putting that is to hear for players who want to try out ToS who didnt play in the betas or who are new to the game altogether. If that doesnt put them off then as soon as they get into the game and see that it isnt not the fastest leveling game for the common casual player, the idea of no reset will most likely put them off. You can spend all day putting a build down on paper but until you actually use it, you wont really know if its any good. On top of that, your planning a build for end game without even knowing what you will need to level. I have re-rolled 4 times now and I will be honest on the reason why. The build looked good on paper and in my head, but as I was leveling I would realize that I needed more AOE, or more single target and I would adjust accordingly, all the while screwing up the end game build in the process.
What I recommend is a 1 circle reset. We do not need to have a full class reset, just a simple circle reset for the recent circle selection. You could even go as far as to allow a grace period up to 10 skill points. 10 skill points into a class is more than enough to decide if the class is what you thought it would be.
You have to give casual players a chance to make mistakes and fix them as well as the more hardcore players. According to steam stats ToS has over 500,000 copies sold but only about 13,000 people playing at any given time. For a game so new on steam with that many copies sold already should have higher numbers than that. There is a reason the numbers are not higher. I think many people have stopped playing due to dumping time in and then realizing they have to re-roll now and don’t get to take most of the progress with them to the new character, such as silver. They are probly just checking the updates on steam and patch notes waiting and hoping for the “Circle Reset” to be announced
If you cater to only the hardcore players, you will find yourself in a pretty empty game and eventually leave yourself due to lack of players. Also, I think it is a bit odd to ask the “western playerbase” guild leaders to be a certain class. That is very off putting to make guild leaders choose a certain class and level it pretty high to even form a guild. There needs to be a happy middle ground we can come up with for the game to survive in the western world.
Also, we love dungeons. We need more than 2 runs (3 with token). That is a little ridiculous. Dungeons are one of the staples in an MMORPG. Limiting to so few a day is hard to swallow for alot of people, and that is what we want in our mmos right? Alot of people playing it.
That assumes that everyone who doesnt mind rerolling played in the beta tho, or isnt new to the game.
It also assume that you --must-- reroll, but why?
Why is it to so important that you can’t have ‘‘build mistakes’’?
One could argue that only the ‘‘hardcore’’ would care this much for ‘‘perfection’’ in a game.
To me that sounds like every RPG, ever. But how many of those RPGs allow resets? And how many others are ‘‘have a fun time replaying the game, with the countless options of customization we are offering you’’
How many times have you replayed say, Mass Effect for its story? (which is quite good) And how many times have you replayed it because you wanted to try a different class? (and got to enjoy the story again, in the process)
But why would someone even try to build for endgame if you don’t know what endgame is? While trying to make a build that will be really great is understandable, doing so without any experience ‘‘as a noob’’ or a new player, sounds almost arrogant.
And since the game is new, who isn’t a ‘‘noob’’ at this point?
That is looking at things in the wrong way. Having these experiences is learning, learning all that knowledge you presumed to know, but don’t know. Because this is a new game and you are a noob (like the rest of us).
Yes, it sounds harsh. But that’s the reality. And something that is often lacking in ‘‘the western gaming world’’ these days, is a reality check.
How did you feel about making an ‘endgame build’ after getting some experience?
Whether you make a mistake or not all comes down to whether your focus is competitive play or to enjoy the game, regardless of ‘‘min/maxing’’. It is only naturaly that with a more competitive mindset, more (time) investment is required.
I feel that a lot of the arguments on the topic ignore this.
It’s a player who tells themselves ‘'I’ve screwed up, I’ve done something wrong’’, it’s not the game that prevents them from literally doing things because of a wrong stats or skill choice, or class choice.
Where in this day and age has a players confidence in their choices gone? As I see it, many requests for features such as resets stem from this problem. Lack of confidence in ones own choices made playing the game.
And that is strange. Was not Mass Effect applouded by the western gaming community for it’s choices that had (some) consequences? And was not the final entry in the series shot down because choices had little to no consequences?
How then, can you argue that Western gamers want to be able to redo their mistakes, when they ask for consequences to their actions?
I don’t like this idea either. I would prefer if [Templar] was a class that any of the base classes could pick. But how is this at all related to ‘‘western players’’?
By which I assume you mean the modern day incarnation of dungeons, the ‘‘Instanced Dungeon’’.
For what purpose? To gain experience points? Or to gain items? For cool events that doesnt really give either, but are fun?
You can’t simply say:
‘‘we need more dungeons’’ without giving a reason why we would need them. That is a little ridiculous.
Personally I agree with giving more dungeon (uses) to be done, but rather to keep the current limit (just make it per individual dungeon, rather then all).
3 Dungeons per day? It’s hard to swallow that for a lot of people doing that each day is what we want in our mmos.
I know that many got sick to death with having to do their ‘‘daily dungeons’’ each day, every day. Doing a lot of dungeons can be enjoyable for some, and not so enjoyable for others.
I think it’s great mistake to generalize and think: ‘‘more dungeons is always good’’
Would I mind if we had a greater limit on dungeons? No, I would not, not at all. But there should be some limit, or people would rush everything faster and as a result quit the game faster.
How fast do you feel players would have been bored (or burned out) in WoW, if raids had no weekly reset, but a daily reset?
Lastly. Most gamers are neither casual nor hardcore, and have a playtime or investment (which ever defination of casual/hardcore you prefer) somewhere in between. Catering to ‘‘hardcore players’’ would leave the game empty just as surely as catering to ‘‘casual players’’ would.
Your opinions are valid as well as mine. What you may consider fun, others may not consider fun. With very limited linear progression, the fun factor in replay-ability for ToS would be based on the individual player.
End game build and building for endgame are two different things. End game build as I am referring to is the finished skill build you have mapped out. It is not arrogant to have a build goal mapped out. It is also not a lack of confidence if you stray from that only find out the skills do not work the way you thought they would.
Also, ill add this. It isnt about what some want and others do not want in an mmo. Its about finding a balance for the player base. More dungeon runs would be great, you do not have to run them if you do not want to. But many people like to run them and would like to have more runs each day.
People should play it for fun, the one’s who are playing it for work are bots.
I mean, no one should spend so much time to figure out what in theory should be the best build for them, they should try it by themselves and then choose what is appropriate for their play style.
I’m not fully for the idea of a reset where you just pick and choose, but it would be nice to have a consumable to roll back a class while keeping your character level, you’d still have to grind back what you lost, but wouldn’t be too punishing
