What is 20k on a 30s CD, with a 2s activation time that then requires recasting OoB, for another 1s of set up between its activation and post cast delays. Especially given the 60,80,100 and later 300k health pools of mobs.
Its a weak skill.
My main sources of damage are Cure 15, heal 15 and Possession, OoB is just flavor damage in between those skills.
That doesn’t make ABE good, hell now with my second Sadhu, ABE has become even worse given a more powerful OoB is giving even less general reason to use ABE and pushing it further into niche usage.
I get more use out of Transmit Prana than ABE.
My Sorc gets 10k just out of a Temple Shooters Auto attack, soon enough it’ll be hitting even harder when the Agni update comes in for its Pyro spells.
My Doppel, ignoring Deeds of Valor wearing a 1h Sword + Shield, hits harder.
Which is all fine in good except the support abilities of Sadhu are also lacking. Yet the worst damage skill of the three we have satisfies you, how I cannot fathom.
Nobody said the skill is good. I only said that I am satisfied with it. The range is decent and it can hit multiple mobs. 20k damage x 10 mobs is 200k per 30 seconds. It fits my playstyle when I go do Earth Tower with my static. Furthermore, like I stated, it can one shot an unsuspected low hp player in TBL. It is fine at where it is right now.
Hmmm. You mean other classes off of the dps branch? Why compare a cleric’s damage versus pure dps damage? It is like comparing salt against sugar to see which taste sweeter. It is not like you can select another job from a different branch once you picked the cleric branch. What’s the point in that? If you want to compare, then pick a cleric class before rank 6 that has a single hitter that is better than ABE.
even other cleric classes? look at krivis, its a support class, but kills stuff faster than sadhu, bokor is good enough that it gets compared to wizard classes, PD is a support class yet has more than double sadhu dmg, even preist does more dmg than OOB, and did i mention chaplain?
How droll.
“Nobody said the skill is good” so then whats there to argue. The skill isn’t good, by your own words you wont call it such so whats there to say.
That mediocrity satisfies you?
I can say Possession is good, it provides a nice effect, deals enough damage for its CC effect, and its increase in targets hits means it can fit a number of situations even though other skills may straight outpower it.
OOB good? Sure. While its damage is not a draw, the skill allows me to safely pull enemies, I can use it while doing other attacks as additional damage, and it increases my evasion for a defensive boon while decreasing defense to boost teammates damage.
This is all good.
ABE? a long activation skill that requires a resource (your spirit) to work, can be interrupted easily (which also means the cancellation of said resource) for a Knockback that a good chunk of mobs these days can straight ignore. Highly situational where the situation of use is…the knockback. This leaves it as a 1 point wonder skill of niche use on a long cooldown which is fairly clunky to utilize not simply because of its bugs but the time allocation to even use it in the first place (cast OOB, then wait 2s for ABE, even if OoB is already cast its still a 2s set-up). I know you’re not calling it good, what I don’t get is why you felt content to come to argue in favor of a clearly poor skill.
It’s like me going to talk about how great “Flare” is when it’s an understandably poor skill.
You want a damage comparison between abe and other skills?
Zaibas, Blessing + Heal combo, Heal itself, Even Cure. Carve, Effigy, Dumballa, Possession, There is a suite of better Monk skills. Smite and Turn Undead…shoot thats almost all of them, I restrained Bwa Kyaman although that too is a better attack skill.
I liked the trivial addition of “Single hit” as if it meant something, it doesn’t when you’re talking 0.5 and less hit rates on multi-hit skills which out damage ABE in the very time it takes to activate. Skills with potent other functions or near non-existent cool downs.
As for comparing off other dps branches? This is basic, you are a member of a team. The 1:1 comparison between classes is relevant when we talk contribution. What do you contribute vs X. “I heal”, yes your prior ranks heal, your Sadhu operates with a couple of debilitating contributions of which ABE is one of the least, where as the Sorc, the Doppel or even Monk, all do sizeable damage. All of these guys can grab support functions from prior ranks, but in terms of how those classes themselves operate they’ve all managed to be stronger structured classes (even with the sorcs kit being very incomplete). This goes for other Cleric classes, Paladin has a much more solid kit than sadhu (pardoner does steal some of it however) so does Krivis, Priest and there’s a reason I use my Cleric C3 skills without rest.
Sadhu is an Attack/Support hybrid class that is expect to provide both by its very labeling. Possession is a strong attack, Transmit Prana, clunky as it may be can certainly serve as support, and OoB does both. ABE’s damage is straight up low and the knockback has problems partially due to how much knockback resistance they’ve put in the game. I am certainly beating a dead horse, but this is not a skill in a defend-able position its the weakest of the Sadhu’s 3 attacks and also does the least support of the sadhu’s 3 attacks. It is very underwhelming.
TL;dr:
No thank you, ABE blows chunks but I’ll end it here. Enjoy your ABE. May it forever stink so long as you play Sadhu.
I don’t know how far you have played your Sadhu but Krivis with Zaibas definitely doesn’t kill faster than Sadhu. Zaibas isn’t even a single hitter like ABE. If you are playing at low level, then sure. Mobs die with a couple of auto attacks, little less than from skills.
Also, I don’t know why you like to compare different branches @BlueByu but who are you comparing Bokor to? A class at the same circle? A Linker? Sure, then Bokor can do more damage than that class. If you are comparing to a Psychokino, then that’s definitely not true.
Finally, Plague Doctor is rank 7. Tree of Savior has a hierarchy damage system. I said previously to compare the class to rank 6 because that’s the last Sadhu rank in the class rotation. Also, I don’t understand your comparison of Priest and Chaplain. Consider we are just talking about a single skill here. If you compare skill vs skill, which skill in the Priest or Chaplain line can outburst ABE’s single hit in TBL or GvG?
the only skill phyco has over bokor is phycic presure, bokor out dps them any other way, have you seen all the phycokinos complaining aout how soloing is hard? yeah, bokors dont do that
says the guy who has level 80 arreibute for ABE. Zaibas is super strong and oudps even possession, it never falls off while on the other hand OOB falls off before you even get the skill.
this confirms youre a troll, multi hit skills scale way better than single hit skills,
Thank you, you have justified my goal for this debate; that is to keep ABE just the same as it is now. And I agree with you, I hope IMC will keep ABE like this forever as long as I am still playing Tree of Savior (In which Revelation Online is CBT next week, so we will see). Like I said again and again, I am satisfied with ABE because it serves the purpose of my playstyle. I don’t need a damage boost, nor whatever new mechanics that you or @BlueByu has thought up with.
I don’t know why you think I am trolling you when you can’t comprehend what I have written down. I don’t rely solely rely ABE while I level. I have it at level 16 and I do use it in my rotation. Thus I am satisfied with the way it is right now.
Yet you want to ignore psychic pressure in your comparison and point out only the positive argument that benefits your point. This is why I don’t compare different branches with one another. There is no point. It doesn’t serve any purpose to this thread. Now if you are comparing Bokor vs Sadhu, then I have to pick the latter. Sadhu will out perform Bokor during single target boss fight. Period. I have never been out dps in any mission or any boss by a Bokor with equal or greater gear. However, Bokor does shine in PvE where they can mob train, meanwhile it has synergy with plague doctor which is what makes it great.
First, Zaibas scales with INT. Once you reach 567 INT, then yes, I agree with you, Zaibas will out damage Possession (provided there is no elemental enhance or resist). However, this was not your initial argument. What you said first is a Krivis will kill faster than a Sadhu. Since Zaibas is Krivis’ only dps skill, I concluded that your argument is invalid because Krivis struggles against multiple enemies. Thus, you are running around in this debate with points of view that doesn’t even establish your initial argument. Which in term, you warrant that I am somehow “trolling” the public, yet all my argument has been to the point and precise.
In conclusion, again I agree with you. Multi-hit skills does do more damage than single hit skills. But again @BlueByu, this was not my first argument. I asked to compare any Rank 6 or below single hitter skill versus ABE because ABE is a single hitting skill. I am comparing salt versus salt for specific purposes that fits my playstyle. Because in TBL or GvG, nobody is going to sit there and take multi-hitting skills in their face without running away from it. And as for my point, I don’t believe there is another single hitting skill in the Cleric tree that will serve this purpose for how I play that will satisfy me like how ABE will. In which is why I made my case.
Now I don’t know how far you have gotten in ToS. But I honestly believe you lack experience in high level to justify your argument in this thread. It feel as if you only have a collection of knowledge that has been gathered on the forum that you try to put down as your only credential. In which, I don’t think they are very credible. For that matter, I honestly don’t understand how you said your Sadhu doesn’t do enough damage even though it is pure INT (I don’t recommend pure INT Sadhu though). Perhaps you messed up your class build, or that you don’t have any decent gear. Maybe you should pick it back up again and get some decent gear so you can try out Sadhu on high level map, Earth Tower, TBL, and GvG before starting another debate here.
even if you go full int, you do low damage, so its better to just go full con or dex on a sadhu.
and bokor is bettert han sadhu is litterally EVERY way, bokor has way better support, way better CC, way better damage, it does more dmaae on single taregt and multi target.
listen, you obviously have never played another DPS class in this game, even a preist can do more dmg than sadhu, and it can ress too. Roll a chaplain, and see how much easier your soloing would be
Between me and my sister, we have every cleric class leveled @BlueByu. And all of them are above level 250+. We have one of the only Oracle 3 on our server that provides gender change (for 5 million silver though heh). Have you seen a Chaplain at level 280+? Their damage is atrocious. None of their auto-attack scales at that level except Aspergillum. You can’t even auto-attack a single mob unless you are full con or you will be killed. The only skill I use now on my Chaplain/Doctor is ME. And that is after this recent patch. But still, ME can’t even compare to Possession in usefulness.
So I think our friendly debate is over. And I believe I made my initial point that Sadhu doesn’t need any more damage boost. And I confirm my argument that you don’t have enough high level experience to be credible. If new Sadhu players is seeking advice, they should listen to someone else with more knowledge if they want to progress their Sadhu pass level 250. Anything below doesn’t even require Sadhu to complete. Cleric 3 is enough to rush through all those basic content with ease.
Your sole argument resides at sadhu being good for levels 250-330 solo due to it’s innate but limited cc, fade synergy and range.
So here’s a couple of reasons why that is utterly meaningless and not relevant to what is being discussed:
This is a game that revolves around 5 man parties.
Sadhu simply is not capable enough to keep allies alive like other cleric dps classes can. Which is why you never see a sadhu in ET.
(Both Capella/Healing factor are ET enablers however.)
Said cc and fade are really nice while solo, but really impractical for parties.
Possession is a tiny AoE circle and locks you in place, you would need an organized group to pull it off properly and even then both barrier scrolls and world tree far eclipse said use.
Sadhu’s damage is really low compared to other cleric classes period.
Yes ABE can deal 25k dmg, that’s nothing vs 300-500k enemies.
OoB will struggle to reach 10k without druid3 and possession is a entirely different beast on it’s own.
Carve owls deal 30k dmg every 3s and even tank hits.
Effigy spam deals 4k-4k-10k to all enemies that are debuffed + zombie dmg + damballa dmg.
Zaibas can reach up to 50k+ dmg a hit due to storm calling.
And hamaya is the best r6 dmg option by far.
3.1) Possession is a channel.
It prevents you from attacking, healing and doing anything else at the moment. But also requires you to avoid dmg to get the most dmg & cc out of it.
Ergo it leads to a catch 22:
You focus on possession and dealing the most dmg with it, but you lose out on pd2 or inquisitor to deal even better dmg.
You focus on better dmg options at r7-8 but lose out on the ability to keep possession up. Aka less dmg & cc.
Sadhu requires the most work to get proper usage out of it due to its interrupt prone state.
Other classes do not have this issue are a lot easier to use.
These aren’t stand-alone comparisons.
It’s full cleric build vs full cleric build due to the multitude of classes that have synergy.
You could argue a diev3 is worst dmg wise due to owls difficulty hitting enemies. But a diev3 is best situated to grab miko and deal far more dmg than other r6 builds.
Your cleric builds are rubbish.
Sadhu3 is not recommended for a very specific and frequently mentioned reason. It’s crap.
Same with Oracle3.
Likewise Chaplain is recommended with druid2 or pd atm. Both Sterea Trofh & Healing factor help a lot vs 4 star maps.
Maybe miko in the future but that needs testing.
The 4 star areas aren’t meant to be solo’d nor are they a focus of this game.
“can’t see the forest for the trees” comes to mind. The focus lies on getting gear via dungeons & et while using a party for more difficult content.
Your build is unfit for said dungeons & et. It defeats the very purpose of trying to level up. For now at least, might be salvageable at r10.
thank you so much I will try to customize my character as I want (i’ll follow some main lines obv) only one otherquestion (I don’t think opening a thread for this is necessary)
Is End game difficult to reach? And also it takes much time to have a decent gear?
i see youre looking for a PvP build, dont go sadhu. not even 1 circle. all of your skills arent meant for pvp.
OOB can be canceled by being hit once, and takes like 500 hits to kill a player in PvP.
ABE causes your charactaer to freeze and teleport everywhere (bug), and it does super low damage
Possession is unusable in PvP due to the usper long star up and the fact that yu wil be canceled in the first 2 seconds of animation if u actually do catch someone, if youre on 2v2, an it isnt anceles, it desnt kill anyone
plus sadhu stats are terrible, if you go int/con then your damage is terrible, so youre forced to o full int. going full int still gives you terrible damage, but it lets you do more than 1 damage a level 280 (yes, as a sadhu you will do 1 damage to monsters past level 250, and they have 300k hp) but you will no exxageration be one shotted by monsters, and overkiled in PvP
If you want a functional build then ignore everything yggtree claims.
You won’t use heal for dmg at later levels anyway since you need the healing.
And while cure is strong, it is not strong enough to kill multiple 300-500k health enemies. It might just kill 1 enemy with very good gear though.
Nor does he understand that “pure stat” when referenced on a cleric forum always includes con. I know it’s a bit misleading, but you always need a minimum of con regardless of your build. Hence it is rarely mentioned.
[druid2-3 is the one exception in terms of con atm, but their +health buffs give extra health based on your current health. So it’s still really good.]
And like was said before already, sadhu has a lot of synergy with druid2-3 and to a lesser extent dievdirby3/krivis2.
Ergo please do not create a build based on his advice.
None of my claims involved limited cc or fade synergy. For that matter, I stated that Sadhu’s low point is the lack of synergy and superior cc. Thus it is the opposite of what you are arguing right now. @Wurmheart, you, like the others, also have problem with reading comprehension.
I have taken my Sadhu to ET more than enough times to know how it performs in an ET parties. Unless you have been to ET with a c3 Sadhu, I would say we have differentiated experiences. Reading forums and looking at videos online doesn’t even come close to actually playing and mastering a job in game. Thus, I am not sure how you can justify your claim. Of course, I do agree with you that I don’t only spam Sadhu’s skill in ET. My cleric 3 and plague doctor can keep my party alive just fine. Then again, any cleric tree with cleric 2 with enough material and the proper equipment can get to ET floor 5. So it doesn’t really matter what you pick as long as you pick cleric 2 or above.
You don’t need anyone to organize mobs for you once you learned how to use possession effectively. Here is what Sadhu brings in grind and dungeon parties:
Reliable CC
Sustainable AoE Damage
Your own safety
I honest feel more useful and busy while playing Sadhu as a damage/support cleric in parties than any other cleric jobs before rank 6. OoB and Possession allows you to continuously deal damage safely without having to worry about dying. I can’t say the same for Chaplain when I have died a few times jumping into a pack of mobs after a pull trying to auto-attack. That is my own stupidity.
Like the others, if you want to compare something, compare them on equal terms. Or else it will in term be misleading just as you stated that I was somehow misleading. Even though in all my comparison I have compared Sadhu to other class on their equal ground. Why compare one class with a combination of two or three classes? What is that suppose to do? Sadhu isn’t the only class people can pick. Try comparing Krivis’ Zaibas versus Sadhu’s Possession alone and see which one is the clear winner. Because that would be a realistic comparison rather than trying to bring along a rank 8 class which will by all means be superior.
The only defends on ABE I have stated is that it satisfied my game play. I don’t use ABE exclusively. I only use it when the situation calls for it. And there are several situation when I do use ABE. Which is why I like it the way it is at the moment.
Carve Owls is superior sustainable dps than anything Sadhu can offer. This is why Diev is so useful in ET. However, try using Carve Owls solo and in grind/dungeon party. You will understand how it is hindered by the long cool down, knock backs and lack of flexibility.
Finally, Bokor is superior in mob train. You can’t effigy spam all the enemies effectively until you are rank 7. Zombie damage is lacking. Damballa has a long setup. Bokor alone can not compete in single target damage against Sadhu. I will say that as a fact because I have a 276 Bokor/Doctor. Furthermore, like I stated before, I have never been beaten in DPS in mission or boss fight by a bokor of equal or higher gear.
I would have to say learn how to use all your skills to adapt to what class you have picked. I have no trouble playing Sadhu. It is my main class. Sadhu’s style has a 50% downtime. Half the times you will be in possession, while the other half, you will be left to spam all your other skills. This is why I don’t recommend Bokor for Sadhu because effigy damage versus SP resource is not satisfying for me. I rather use that 10 second window to spam my heal, cure, plague vapor, and incinerate.
Partially this is incorrect. I didn’t pick Inquisitor for my Sadhu so I will not comment on that. But Plague Doctor doesn’t interfere with Possession at all. Once you case plague vapor, pandemic, and incinerate, you can use possession all you want without interfering with your rotation.
I do 100% agree with this. Sadhu is the most difficult class in the Cleric tree to master. If you want a challenge, then play a Sadhu c3. Mastering your skill and use will see how Sadhu is viable even at high level. Thus this is mainly why people quit Sadhu due to its high difficulties. It isn’t a class where you can just button smash and be done with it. You actually have to think and use your skills wisely.
And like I stated, Sadhu is a class that has little to no synergy with other cleric classes. Picking Sadhu does not benefit any classes except itself. Thus this was my original argument that if you want to change Sadhu, don’t simply increase its damage output or throw more mechanics at it. Those will do nothing for Sadhu. Again the following will need to be changed for Sadhu for it to shine more:
Fix all the bugs
Lower the difficulty of game play
Increase synergy with other classes
I enjoy my Sadhu c3 and I don’t like to tell other people how to build their character. However, there are some benefits with Sadhu c3. I will mention one which is range. Did you know with lvl16 OoB, you can OoB outside of its range and not pull aggro? There is certain distance that you can be away from a mob that you can start attacking the enemy without them reacting to use. I do use this benefit often when I just want to OoB auto attack something to death.
4 star area is a challenge. But I only stating everything based on my experience as a high level Sadhu. People can read it is up to them. But I say there is a different between theory crafting and actually experiencing Sadhu through out the game.
