Tree of Savior Forum

[Class] Official Sadhu Thread

Class and Rank Cleric
#2194

Even without Arde Dagger, I never had any difficulties leveling my Sadhu or even out DPSing people as OoB gets its attribute damage and INT scaling. The only clunky thing about OoB is perhaps the range indicator of the ooze, as it lies. The tip is much closer, and the skill oddly hits aside you. It’s more of a landscape than a portrait.

ABE quickly becomes useless. When you first get it, presumably it’ll do nice damage, but it’ll scale into mediocrity. It’s really a 30 second knockdown device that currently if you don’t reuse OoB afterward, will glitch and rubberband you. Same with Vashita, its really insignificant since you could easily ignore it and nothing changes much.

1 Like
#2195

Except look at how much health you have right now. Are you trying to seriously tell me that 5k health is acceptable for anything serious in end game where the difference between your OOB attack and someone else’s auto attack buffed might be an extremely generous 1-2k damage? That’s like absolutely nothing when mobs have 30k+ health, and I still can’t even fathom the whole wasting a circle on C2 and everything instead of getting Zaibas or going Druid2 just to attempt at staying in OOB thing.

And man I don’t even know where to begin with talking about you comparing your Sadhu to a Sorc for damage. :joy:

#2196

Who cares how much hp a cleric perpetually in Safety Wall, Fade, Mackangdal and Sterea Trofh has?

Don’t get hit, you won’t die.

#2197

You love to nitpick anything, it is hilarious. “Oh well look at your health!”, how incredibly petty.

  1. I compared Auto attacks. It doesn’t mean jack squat that its a Sorc because that Auto attack is inherit to all Wizard classes. 1x scaling, that if you go Wizard C3 is 1.5x during quick cast.

  2. Similarly Physicals also have 1x scaling default scaling on their auto attack (excusing Archers penalties). That can be increased by critical hitting which is a 1.5x modifier for that hit. A few classes have extra modifiers (QS3)
    Alternatively 0 cooldown skills can be used as a replacement for the auto attack (such as Oblique Shot, which scales up to 2x damage on a single target + bonus damage on a side). This game is numbers, it is not difficult to extrapolate damage and know what you’re dealing with.

  3. OoB’s AA scaling is present from c1 and 1 skill point. You’re not a C2 Sadhu to do more AA damage as all the AA’s damage is unlocked at C1.

  4. Are you really splitting hairs ? OoB’s AA damage has been put in question throughout this thread when it has been mathematically and visually demonstrated that Sadhu’s have superior AA’s to most classes and this is despite constant repetition that a Sadhu does not just sit there and AA all day. Sadhu’s AA also contributes to party dps by its defense reduction for your physicals it is not a pure damage attack for the individual Sadhu.

  5. Clerics have 7k base health at 280, This is not including bonus health from collections such as Tenets, or equipment. I’m going Kabbalist at rank 7. Rank 7 Kabbalist gives 100% maximum health which bare minimum means 14k Base health before Equipment and the like. Earth tower Floor 10 has a boss that deals 5-7k in Waves of damage. I’ll be at 15-16k without a single investment in Con over 50% of the time. With Revenge Sevenhold also surving as an emergency block that reflects damage. This is sufficient to survive that damage, including That I have 40 Blocks from Safety Zone, and sufficient range to attack outside of the Waves aoe. I’m fully aware of the damage output and have been completely fine up to this point. Part of the benefit when you can block, lose aggro, and have 28 heal squares which heal 5% bare minimum (plus scale off your Int/magic attack) which means you’re outputting 140% maximum health every 30s + your magic attack and heals base. Surviving isn’t hard, but maybe that wasn’t clear by the only health potion in my skillbar being one of the old ones from Klaipedia that I haven’t used in 80 levels.

  1. Sadhu is more then auto attacking
  2. The auto attack is superior to the majority of classes in damage and similarly increases damage of physical classes.
  3. It has been shown a multitude of times that Sadhu is more then AA’s and is even comparably good at AA’s you’ve now decided “Well excusing all of that, those AA’s mean nothing with mobs higher health”. How long do you and Blue plan to run around in a circle looking for areas to nitpick on a single skill. What an inane and ridiculous perspective that a Class is not a sum of its available skills and instead entirely the AA capability of 1 skill. Even QS is more then Running shot.

Do you have any more trivial nitpicks?

3 Likes
#2198

Sure, can you tell me how you survive normal archer/mage trash mob damage while running around into your perfect hypothetical situation. Do you sit there and wait for your cool downs before moving out of a safety zone to not get one shot every time? Or like compare this class to actual other Cleric classes and explain why being a bubble boy is better than anything else at this point?

#2199

I can walk all up and down the map in fade and the mobs don’t even know I’m there. Then again thats the whole purpose of Fade but using skills for their purpose is an insane idea. I can put work on several mobs before they even get to me while being ranged (excluding elites). Very few mobs can actually one shot, and those who do are via a skill like Spiral arrow. In general I can put down heal squares and just walk over them healing back the damage while I’m taking it when it comes to just their Auto attacks.
Next nitpick.

#2200

Explain to me why you essentially need to be what I call a bubble boy using all these skills and spells for yourself to deal damage is even remotely fair compared to other Cleric classes that don’t. You think spending every single point into INT and sacrificing what I would consider wasted potential on better circles is a good idea to make a nerfed class even remotely viable. This is my biggest beef here that you and others don’t seem to understand what you’re doing is obscene to do something another class can more easily and better. All the while they offer better support and utility that they don’t even have to use selfishly just for their class to function.

Tell me why I shouldnt just go Diev for owl statues and prolly do more than OOB+Possession combined in a single burst if I had the glass canon INT build.

#2201

I typically don’t agree with @ophiuchu often but in this case hes right 5k hp is a problem if you ever want to do pvp or earth tower. If you don’t plan on doing either of those then you’ll be okay.

#2202

You’re aware you’re extrapolating the health at 152 to a 280 character? Despite that natural health progression means 5k health is not even possible.
Again to repeat for ideally the last time.
This build goes Kabbalist, base health at 280 is 7709.
Ein Sof 5, is 100% health. This is 14018 health. Ein Sof 10 (come Rank 8) is 200% Health (thats 3x base), Ein Sof 15 (rank 9) is 4x health.
This is assuming I have ZERO health from other sources, and only the base 7 Con. There is 128 stat points between that Sadhu and Earth tower.

@Ophiuchu bubble boy for what, in a party there are 4 other people, get real. If Im operating Solo then of course I will use safety zone for myself as there is Zero reason not to use the tools I have.

You might as well stop all discussion if you simply want to talk min-maxing, as if we’re talking min maxing there are objectively only 5 classes Period in this game worth taking. Why should I take Druid if the Cleric slot in parties are used for PD’s and there superior support. Get real. If you Pick Sadhu these are what it brings, the class has shortcomings that is obvious nitpicking on Out of Body just shows an inane level of tunnel vision and vaccuum understanding of classes and skills. If I’m min-maxing support then I don’t need a damage Cleric in the first place. Given the pace of changes in Ktos and the obvious reality of things changing in Itos down the line it’s a very narrow line of thinking that status quos remain. Making linear adjustments for sufficiently as they don’t deviate from expected power curves. C3’s are easy for them to keep in proportion, backtracking is not nor is constant C2 useage. From a balance concern C3’s are the easiest to keep and check and as such they’re most likely to be handled (as we see for instance with Hell Breaths 50% bonus in KTOS) adequetely. I’m going to play towards Sadhu’s strengths and make note of where it reasonably falters or doesn’t compare. Sadhu has good AA’s so I dont have to complain about it other then QoL adjustments such as the post-cast delay “stick”. The damage is fine for its purpose.
ABE is a trash skill and I’ll more then likely be taking a skill point pot just to reduce it to level 1. Is that a good thing? No. Vashiti isn’t much better which is another problematic area. In truth Out of Body and Possession are the least problematic skills in the Sadhu line as OoB does its job as does Poss.

#2203

Thats still low

Also ein Sof would be better used on others then your self. So this could be a solution to your hp problem but would also be a sub par use of Ein Sof

#2204

What part of base health before any investment is hard to understand.
Perhaps I’m being too vague.

ET F10, has 5-7k Hits. Which means you need 8k health going in to avoid the 1 shot (or a method of reducing the damaage further). Ein Sof puts the threshold to 3-4 shot hits which completely manageable as your main concern is unavoidable damage (projectiles). Through itemization, Collections and the fact that there are 127 stat points (excluding bonus) between my Character and 280 there is zero concern for his current Int investment.

Health is a buffer, If you complete an encounter with 6k health, then the 5999 health makes no difference as you have not died. If you complete content with 16k health then the 15k health has gone wasted. You need enough health to survive the damage you are taking. If I am not taking sufficient damage then I do not need Ein Sof on myself and if I am then it is to be used it is a very binary metric.
Can you survive the encounter: If Yes - you have enough health
If no then you need more.
At 153 the Sadhu has no need of extra health, We can extrapolate for 280 but then again theres 127 stat points available between then, a 2x hP modifier stat, and a blocking status (RS) to obtain all before then to say nothing of Equipment.

#2205

No i understand what your saying, i get that Ein Sof can give you what you need to survive.

Im just also saying a earth tower group would look down on you for using Ein Sof as bandage for your survival instead of a infinite sp battery for mages/archers

but each to their own.

#2206

so u mean tat as a sadhu we have to shifting safety zone and fade in order to make jus an AA’s style output…If u compare like tat than u will c tat those class like QS and warrior can jus Run to the boss or to the area which they could successfully hit he boss to atk…n no doubt they could jus run away by jus pressing the direction key to evade the boss…And for us Sadhu we have to fully set up with safety zone and fade before we deal up some AA to the boss with such a limited time…They have the much more easy life than us…And in the end we still have to invest almost all stat to Int in order to get the same or a little bit higher AA output to those class…Such pathetic we have to spend so many effort to jus hit the boss with AA…so many freaking limitation for us and the result is not tat gud compare to other…That CALLED “BALANCED”…i dun believe that u say OOB is not the main feature of sadhu…jus admit that we all know sadhu from this unique OOB AA feature before we get know to possession and other sadhu skill…If u say OOB deserve the huge nerf like this than wat the point of having sadhu as a DPS…if u say we are a semi support class…we eventually spam safety zone and fade for ourself only…we jus left the freaking HEAL that could support our mate…so i doubt to say we might be fail as a supporter becos our safety zone and even fade is not mainly use to support our mate…As a DPS we fail to deal a huge amount of output that can compare to other…In support we also cant compare to priest or other…Before saying that wat role we can play in a party, the develop already OVER NERF our sadhu and so we cant even b a gud supporter or even a gud DPS…As a hybrid also…i guarantee also there will be much more hybrid dps and support build out there tat are better than sadhu…so wat make sadhu shine…I nvr complain sadhu are weak,Jus that the OVER NERF on us already make sadhu taste not as it original idea and feature…We have to squish our brain to make some other build and different playstyle in order to make sadhu to b a better class than other,Unless u wan to say tat sadhu class is eventually a weaker class compare to other during the time they try to develop this class and come out this idea…At least the 1st time i saw sadhu class…1st thing come in my mind is sadhu is one of the strongest PURE DPS class among the whole game…And even in the CBT this class claimed to b 1 of the strongest class also…but than now come the time they nerf us as hard as possible…If this consider as the real “balancing” that spoken between all of u and developer than i can freaking shut up and play my game aside…

1 Like
#2207

I can heal 140% of anyones HP + Skill base and my magic attack every 30s.
Even if I was C1 I’d get 50% + skill base and magic attack every 30s of someones Health.
A Quarrel Shooter does no such thing, a Barbarian does no such thing.
Barbarians maintain stacks for Frenzy, and Running shot does not have 100% upkeep. Finally OoB is a C1 skill with Full damage with 1 skill level compared to running shot which is a C3 Investment obtained at the same Rank.
There’s also no point to OoB overshading Possession or ABE (although it does overshadow ABE as ABE is extremely lackluster). Sadhu isn’t a pure dps in the first place, it’s not intended to be and that is painfully obvious when your C3 skill is about buffing another ally at the cost of your own damage. When one of your skills is stat reduction and confusion status. When the other is a healing movement skill and your other Spirit skill is a magical auto attack.
Fade will always be for yourself. Safety Zone is flexible and you can use it a multitude of ways. OoB doesn’t have a cooldown so the main point of SZ is just for when you’re receiving damage, which you fairly often in a party are not.

Absolutely blows my mind that players advocate that spamming Z all day is indicative of what the Sadhu is supposed to spend their time doing despite the other skills packaged with this class that are anything but. Reality is skills like ABE and Vashiti are underwhelming, which is an issue a similar class, the Psychokino had. In January (or was it Feb) updates to adjust multiple of its skills went through as they were going unused or falling off entirely (although Magnetic pressure is still poor). With a lot of power going into Psychokino’s C3 Gravity Pole. Likewise Sadhu faces the exact same situation of a questionable C3, but History of updates already implies how that is handled. OoB is not an issue. The defining aspect of Sadhu (c3) is giving up power to another ally. The theme of the class is its spirit, which does more then Auto attack, but its other contributions are lack luster because Vashiti and ABE are underpowered skills.

#2208

Btw, do you know, if you is in a party and you have a ■■■■■■■ tanker YOU BE SO FAR FROM THE ■■■■■■■ BOSS/MOB you’ll not be hit, because the OoB range is HIGH AS ■■■■.

And if the boss come close to you, just use prakiti and use OoB again and then you are far way from boss. Its just 2 seconds.

You really do not need Safety Zone or Fade if you are in a party with 1 peltasta. You’ll need this skills when you are soloing.

2 Likes
#2209

im sadhu now, c2 sadhu, dont go for sadhu, it will waste ur circle for nothing but easily cancelled posession… and the worst thing about sadhu is you have to cast protection before attack, while others are already wipe our mob, you can do nothing but wait another 20 sec cooldown to attack again… sadhu is not dps, and not support … compared to priest, a full support priest can do even more damage… sadhu is just sad job.

#2210

What people need to stop doing is thinking that Out Of Body is your main damage. That’s where the problem lies. Sadhu’s are MATK damage classes which whole kit revolves around their classes(and all other classes at other ranks skills) to become very capable close range magic casters, especially on single targets.

One of your spells, Out Of Body, allows you to auto attack at much higher extents while casting 85% of your spells you have. Not only that, since your auto attack has been heightened by at least 8x the damage you would normally swing for, it becomes way more potent. This is of course if you aren’t daft and not using a mace, which is less helpful for MATK than rods.

Hold on, I bet you want the math on that one, maybe? I auto attack for near 200. That’s with a Rod, Arde Dagger, and one elemental headgear. I OOB for currently, 500x3, up to 700-800x3 depending on weaknesses. So 200 vs 1500-2400. That’s where that x8 comes from currently, at Lv 133.

That’s the point @Delcas is making. You are worried about his health? Oh well, I know I’ll still be perfectly competent with 20k base health with his same ideas and utility of skills. And yes, I am going kaballist and not using Ein Sof on myself before you ask.

So no @ophiuchu, you don’t need to be a bubble boy to play Sadhu, the fact of the matter is, most of the time You’ll be fading to or around your tank anyway, setting up safety wall for him, sitting in it with him, and then Prakriti-ing out before it fades.

Also, with your silly and obnoxious hypothetical @ophiuchu, Owl Statues get knocked away, or the mob moves away from them very quickly in a lot of cases. The fact is you can re-position your damage much easier than an owl statue, even if you as a class play similarly to that of an Owl Statue with your mega spam of multihits on the target. The other fact is that Sadhu’s fill a minor support role with more focus on damage than Dievdirby, who is a support role with some focus on damage. Their owls aren’t their kit, it’s the 20% CD rate, Less SP consumption, invincibility when needed, and then finally, owls.

Once again, I’m not telling you how to play Sadhu, I am just letting you know that optimal play is based around using OOB in conjuncture with your other skills. It takes this thing called effort. You got to get used to it if you want to be good, no matter what class, especially in Earth Tower.

If anyone can disprove that statement, have at it. But I don’t think you will be able to. OOB moved from staple damage, to supplemental damage, and if you don’t like that, Sadhu, no matter how cool of a class it might seem to you, might not be something you can play to your hearts content.

#2211

outdpsing ppl with oob? lol thats either a lie or you spent a lot of money in the attribute

#2212

like i said, you are saying

“it takes me 30 seconds to killa monster below my level, while effigy couldve been killed it, but thats ok because its an auto attck”

#2213

ok so the only good sadhu skill is possession, agreed. possession is our main damage, not oob, bcuz after lvl 130, nobody uses oob anymore. oob is bad, at rank 5 possession completly replaces oob. and the owl statue is an exxelent skill, its waayy better than oob and maybe better than possession, if monsters are running and bosses are knocking it then you just dont know how to use owl.