Tree of Savior

[Class] Official Matador Thread


#102

Just a little reminder: All classes have weapon swap now = you can now use Crossguard without worries and up that pierce damage without even manually change weapons.


#103

Ok, so after experimenting a little and looking again at the ratios from classes, I would like to organize some conclusions of mine.

But before going into that further, we need to define some things that changed drastically.

First thing, stat wise, there is no stat that raises block or evasion, so both STR and DEX are exclusive offensive stats. That is a sign that the devs really looked at the defensive side of Fencer that I exposed as a type of appendicitis, and likewise, it was removed. This means that @fabricio_polo 's perspective of the offensive aspect of rapier (which was what pretty much everyone did) is the rule.

That is, if you like me, enjoyed boosting your defenses with Fencer and Matador, at least stat wise it won’t work as damage would now. Even if you mix peltasta or whatever.

Also, it seems most classes that has 1 or more ratio for STR are 2h spear classes, which means that 2 handed swords and whatever 1 handed weapon are hybrid type.


Now going to objective conclusions about Fencer and Matador.
image
There is something that imo, splits Fencer and Matador now. Fencer seems to focus on boosting its critical damage but Matador seems to focus more on raw damage.

This mean that if you want to focus on either high physical damage or high critical damage, it seems that would be best to not mix Matador and Fencer.

Fencer only topic

Also, one thing that the nature of all the swordsman tree affects is that most classes lack DEX focused ratios, with Nak Muay the only with a 1 aside from Fencer. The other 2 options are Highlander and Barbarian (there is also hackapell kek) with 0.8 ratio.

Although stat wise they are well rounded (as STR is also near 0.8), Barbarian is still a STR steroid class. Skill wise, highlander would still be a good choice to Fencer, which leads to my final conclusion.

The devs observed the Rapier meta and decided that the most effective build DPS wise will be the base for what they would make for the distribution, which is the Highlander-Fencer. (@Palazzo joys from the past)

This also could put an end to that Fencer debate about which was better, Barb or High, as you can have both and both have the better stats for Fencer anyway.

However, for those who liked to focus on DEX (like me kek) this can be really weird. Ok, part of the reason I invested on DEX was for the evasion side plus critical attack was showing to be better than physical attack personally. Although it seems that critical attack focus was preserved (as we have the same DEX ratio of bullet marker and Asasssin), the damage reduction side that I loved was destroyed.

I would say that the ideia of “full DEX or full STR” was really destroyed. Now you have to chosse “full patk or full catk”

I will still go on the path of full critical attack, as I myself think that is the Fencer’s real theme.

Now, onto Matador, which is the focus of this thread.

I don’t have any idea of what to say. Matador has DEX as the worst stat ratio (although not that different from CON, it is just a decimal of difference).

STR wise, Matador is clearly a Doppel like class, they have the exact same ratio for STR, the only difference being that Doppel has more critical attack ( 0.7 DEX; 0.4 CON) Matador is more hybrid (0.5 DEX; 0.6CON).

I would say that this is the devs perspective that the build barbarian>doppel>matador that I saw both on iToS and kToS would the norm for what you should do with Matador, maybe a farming build, dunno.

I frankly don’t have an idea of what Matador is now.

I believe everything here should be read with a grain of salt as I don’t know how much a single decimal could increase with your equipments and bonus stats.

But one thing I can say for sure, whatever you do now, you will never have the same patk as a 2h spear class and you will never have the same catk¹ + atk speed as an scout.

¹Although Epee Garde could actually make us equal or even stronger in the catk department.


#104

You can have Peltasta, wear a shield, and still be a good Tanker. Peltasta got some nice changes, and the new defensive buff makes you look like wearing 3 shields at once, defensive-wise.

Yes, you will trade off some damaging capabilities for Peltasta (and some defensive capabilities for not building around defensive classes if you look the other way around), but it seems that you can still be a decent tanker, with a good aggro, mixing Peltasta and Matador. It’s a trade-off for the choice you made, and I guess that you could be a good tanker for all around content.

My guess is that Matador has better STR because you can already have a good Crit Rate using its own buffs/counterattacks, so you can achieve a good critrate, therefore crit more often naturally.

Now, considering that the only other class that wear Rapier is Fencer, and Fencer has way better DEX modifier, then you can pair both (which is logical and probably the best thing for both classes) and have an increased DEX multiplier, good offensive skills, buffs for critical, and then pair with whatever you want your rapier user to do: other DPS option for more damage, or a defensive option like Peltasta.

What both classes still lack is diversity, as there is only 2 classes as true rapier users. It is fine, I guess, considering that other skills can be performed with Rapier as well.


Here are the changes that will hit Matador with the Re:build update:

Matador
-Capote: buff duration 10s + 1s per level. Fixed 10 provoked targets. “Excitement” and “Charismatic” attributes removed. “Enhance” attribute added, increasing debuff effects on Evasion and Accuracy.
-Muleta: “Duration” and “Showtime” attributes removed.
-Ole: cooldown reduced from 50s to 30s. 2 overheats (?). “Duration” attribute removed. “Enhance” attribute added.
-Faena: overheats increased (2 -> 3). “Risk-taking” and “Critical Pierce” attributes removed.
-Paso Doble: cooldown reduced from 20s to 10s.
-Backslide: “Evasion” and “Perfect Timing” attributes removed.


#105

Well theres 1 filler rank.
Doppel/Hop or Peltasta.

I still think Fencer/Matador would work way better on the scout tree.


#106

I agree, scout has good skills to use with it.

Well, rapier agression doesn’t exist anymore as those attributes from Matador that reduced shield effects. So there won’t be any penalty from going peltasta + using shield.


#107

You are right


#108

Ole still works the same?

Cause it has 2 overheats now, kinda weird for a buff…


#109

Yes, ole gives +% crit rate.
And +% crit chance on taunted enemies. Matadors should get crit cap easily.


#110

I actually played more with the classes and even put every skill and attribute on machine translator to see what each did.

Ole has an attribute enhance now, like @fabricio_polo mentioned, which means that the base critical chance boost from the skill can go to 75%~ which is pretty huge.

Also, two corrections from my post considering what I discovered:

1a The defensive aspects of Fencer are still there, as Esquive Toucher seems to perfectly dodge whatever (2 sec on PVE of evasion and 4 sec on PVP). However, this actually removes the need of evasion numbers, which is a good change pro fencing-theme. Block can still be boosted by Prep, but Swordsman is the blocking class so it is not that to weird to have it.

1b Fencer also have an Enhance Attribute for Epee Garde, which is something surprising, at least to me. We can now boost our critical damage up to 75%. This is beyond a doubt a sign that Fencer does indeed the highest critical damage in the game, as neither Scout nor Archer has something like that.

2a There is an interaction intended to promote a mix of Fencer and Matador. Balestra Fente has now an effect that resets whatever skill that makes you back slide.

2b I said that there weren’t demerits for using shield on Matador, well, I was wrong. I believe the Banderillero attribute still has on the tooltip the thing that says that it only works if you have a rapier only. But for Fencer I still see no demerits (if you use Epee it will only deactivate block not reduce your damage).


#111

Here my build in Re:build.

Well fencer>matador is death. look for Draggon or other classes.


#112

Death is a strong word, use it carefully

However I really agree that Matador is in a dire state at the moment

  • Showtime is removed, it slows your rotations, but that isn’t that much of an issue with the reduced cooldowns
  • Faena was murdered and it’s impractical to use, Sept Etoiles is a way better damage skill (ironic)
  • Evasion looks like a good alternative but the changes to it ruin it because you have low hp and you can’t handle that many mobs at the same time
  • Armour changes also screw you up, you can use plate for a way better defence but that gimps your crit potential and yet, Leather is so weak that you will struggle harshly with hp if you’re not geared enough to kill fast
  • Enemy armour also is annoying, as an example in the Lanko Lake Dungeon, golems are a total mess to deal with, but Varles can mostly be clear with 1 bull + Paso Doble
  • With the removal of Fencer’s coquille, bossing potential got really troublesome too, at least preparation is still there

Matador needs serious adjustments, beyond depending on other classes, its power it’s really underwhelming and it’s looking like just a filler class for crit buffs


#113

Fencer + Matador doesn’t give you enough damaging rotation?

I wonder why not go for a complement class, like Peltasta or Retiarius, to better face those issues of defense and cc.

I see a lot of DPS oriented characters being very squishy, and I can’t say that I don’t like it, because it should be the expected trade-off.

I also saw the video of pelta - doppel - Matador farming at HG, and it was quite impressive.

Sure, Matador didn’t had that much of damage solely for itself, but it was a nice addition for Paso Doble, Corrida Finale and Ole.


#114

I already tried Retiarus, the stat boost was great and it was fun in regular pve since I could block with my stat stick and mob with net, but in actual content like dungeon and cmode it was hard, probably because my dagger wasn’t tuned enough

My last picture was testing Nak Muay as a filler for the dex boost.

Following migliole’s post I decided to try Rodelero and meanwhile my crit is not as strong as before, I admit that it increased my survivability by a lot and I fare better vs plate.

The point is that Matador still needs work before releasing in live, at least attributes to make it work like the counter/agility based dps it was.

Not really, Baubas in test is really casual and for some reason, the dungeons and instanced monsters became dumbly strong
Here’s my damage, without squire buffs, vs Baubas cave monsters as an example. Bull -> Paso Doble -> Targe was my rotation there


#115

Faena looks like absolute dogshit now with all its attributes stripped away. 3 OH is nice and all but 30 sec CD is gigantic in rebuild and the low dmg skill factor doesn’t help either. Sept Etoile now ignores 50% of the targets defense, so it’s already much better than Faena and you can reliably count on 8 hits being performed unlike the RNG Faena hit-fest.

Corrida Finale looked fine in the videos I saw.

Paso Doble now being a multi-hit with only 10 sec CD looks like a viable replacement for Faena, since you only have to invest 10 points into it to max the skill.

The fencer syngery is still there, so I’ll try a tankador (pelt>fencer>matador) upon rebuild hitting iToS.


#116

I believe that farming builds and solo is somewhat OK, because you can deal sufficient damage and survive (by not picking full DPS build, that is), of course you wont be giving maximum damage, but you have to remember that DPS is designed to work as a party (where survival should be solved in theory). You don’t need more damage than sufficient in solo.

What I think we lack is armor ignore, we even lost the skill from highlander and peltasta that did that.

The only thing Rapier can do related to armor is Sept Etoiles that ignore 50% defense now (which is why it is better then Faena).

Dunno what would solve this aside from new skills or a new armor penetration stat.


#117

I gave Hoplite a second chance since Sharp Spear was available to use with rapier now (although I’m not sure if it works at all and I seeing it as a placebo effect) and it improved my performance, even the bossing damage thanks to finally being able to use lunge with autoswap (Ballestra -> Lunge -> Preparation + Sept Etoiles is fun)

What would help matador is either bring showtime back or at least faena risk taking, because there’s no real incentive in taking faena if sept etoiles is stronger and has guaranteed hits, unlike the static dmg, rng faena, but otherwise, the interactions with Fencer are still alright, it’s not a dead class like it has been seen lately.

Also, fun thing, apparently you can use Finestra now with autoswap, but it has no effect outside bugging your animations, not sure if the skill is intended to be used or if it was just an overlook.


#118

Posting related updates from ktest thread.

Matador
-The attribute Picador has been changed to now cause a 5 second bleed when attacking enemies.
-The attribute Banderillero now provides more damage against enemies targeting you (20% -> 30%).

  • Muleta: Showtime has been re-added to the game.
  • Back Slide: Perfect Timing has been re-added to the game.
  • Paso Doble now increases critical rate by 20% for 5 seconds after use.

Fencer

  • Fencer: Offensive Rapide has been re-added to the game.
  • Balestra Fente leap distance increased.
  • Epee Garde duration increased (7 + skill level * 3 seconds -> 15 + skill level * 3 seconds).

Unlimited Bleed Procs for ya. Need to test how this bleed scales though.


#119

The bleed is fun I think it scales with physical attack and it can be used with any kind of weapon, even unarmed or attack as long you have the attribute.

Matador got nice buffs, showtime coming back and Faena getting a damage increase (from 86% with max attribute to 118%) hopefully it will get better soon, but it’s still in a balanced spot


#120

On your second video, how does he/she attack so many targets? Whenever I play swordsman, each skill only hits like 2-3 mobs. I know what AoE attack ratio is, and I know you can get +6 from 3 centaurus cards, but there has to be more than that as +6 only hits 3 more medium if I remember correctly?

Also what is the song in the beginning? It’s nice :satisfaction:

Edit: nevermind, found it. It’s called Seven Cloudy Day if anyone else is wondering.


#121

Highlander?
At least theres some bleed synergy xd