Tree of Savior Forum

Circle reset NEEDED for game to survive!

Only person to keep bringing it up because he got offended from being corrected is you, sadly. Okai end of discussion for that petty issue > u > and you can keep continuing to Assume like you always do.

Your idea of controlled circle resets are still far way more convenient than anything. The fact that it takes such little effort, and anything less than having to grind for your class levels is pretty much just another convenience for me. Unless you mean that circle reset will drop you back to the previous rank or so , for example from R7, back to R5, so back to a lv 125 or 126, and grinding your way back up, I might consider that >_>

And huh, you make it sound like learning about the game is a chore and you simply do not want to think or make an effort to know what your plan will be come r7, that’s your reason for warranting a circle reset? Isn’t going to the forums, and reading about builds other people post and share already considered a research? is it so much of a chore? xD

Most if not all new players will proceed to go to forums and other database sites for information about the game, I have seen a lot of players ask on shout and get redirected to forums and tosbase, obviously they will go there if they seek information they need to progress in game.

Sure high level content is only cleared by specific class builds, but I don’t think that’s the case. Some builds will just excel much more than other builds for some Content, and vice versa- and that’s totally fine, because you also need team work to be able to clear higher level content. And so it all depends into meshing with the people you play with rather than always having to change your builds every time a new content is up >_>

The other con to having circle resets is that some players will opt to just take the cookie cutter builds they’ve not played for the past x levels - a build whose gameplay is far different from their previous build, and thus develop some premature play style for it - speaking from experience on other games I’ve played, this happens, and it’s not quite fun when you’re forcefully teamed up with them.

Yeah, still no. A Circle reset isn’t the only means that’s going to benefit IMC in terms of financial support. There’s a very thin line between feedback and complaints. But honestly, if people cannot live without a Circle Reset, they might as well quit the game.

I think that sums up most of my opinion with regards to Circle Reset, regardless if you believe the good in everyone that they will not abuse it, it will still be abused. Just look at all these bots running around the game. :stuck_out_tongue:

The thing that i (and most of players) hate from Circle Reset is those ppl who will abuse it to lvl in easy way and ended with the build they want. Few months restriction before someone able to reset should be fine with other limitations. Like 3 months every reset so ppl won’t be able to abuse it.

That suggestion won’t entirely benefit them, there are some majority players that against this suggestion as well which mean if they finally allow this, it should be with really strict limitation or it will be backfired. By benefit, it should be not only for their income but also for their players.

But still I’m against the suggestion.

This is text not speech. Mistakes with intention get a pass with speech because you can’t proof read it.

My accusations were based on word for word quotation (that you finally realized), not inference, not misinterpretation. Yours were. I deal with unfounded accusations the same way with people spreading misinformation, quickly, harshly.

Wow okay, finally some arguments. Didn’t think you were capable of doing so considering how you’ve been arguing with me so far. :joy:

Anyway, let’s go.

Your idea of controlled circle resets are still far way more convenient than anything. The fact that it takes such little effort, and anything less than having to grind for your class levels is pretty much just another convenience for me. Unless you mean that circle reset will drop you back to the previous rank or so , for example from R7, back to R5, so back to a lv 125 or 126, and grinding your way back up, I might consider that >_>

Little effort? Do you think money is little effort to you? Unless you’re some rich kid with loving parents, money is always hard-earned and having to actually use some for a game is a big decision in itself. Dropping ranks and levels through a circle reset just defeats the purpose of a reset, what if you chose a wrong early circle and you’re forced to grind from, let’s say, level 80+ to level 240+ again? It’s not a reset at that point, it’s just a re-rolling feature.

And huh, you make it sound like learning about the game is a chore and you simply do not want to think or make an effort to know what your plan will be come r7, that’s your reason for warranting a circle reset? Isn’t going to the forums, and reading about builds other people post and share already considered a research? is it so much of a chore? xD

Yes, it is a chore. Really now. Is Tree of Savior a big part of our lives or something? It is a significant part of your education? Is it helping you on work and other responsibilities? It isn’t. It’s a hobby. Hobbies shouldn’t be something that requires huge effort.

Sure, by researching well you should at least be granted some form of compensation. The very idea that you don’t have to spend money for a reset is one of them already. There also comes some possible repercussions that come with a reset, like you can only reset once, so if it would be your desire to change to another build in the future you would still have an advantage against those who used up their reset just to simply fix their build.

Games are supposed to be all about the gameplay. Not research. Research is indeed a chore to make sure you maximize your gameplay experience. But not everyone would want to research, some simply want to enjoy what the game is purposed to be: a form of entertainment, and there’s nothing wrong jumping into it immediately.

Most if not all new players will proceed to go to forums and other database sites for information about the game, I have seen a lot of players ask on shout and get redirected to forums and tosbase, obviously they will go there if they seek information they need to progress in game.

And that’s the problem. See how many people are just learning stuff altogether as they play the game? They ask questions in-game because that’s the only time where they’ll learn what to search for. They find something interesting, or experience an event where they’re having second thoughts on their previous choices, hence they will proceed to ask or go to the forums. So, as you can see, there is no definitive way to determine everything from research until you play the game and experience things yourself. You’re biased because you have played the game in CBT so you already know how stuff would work, but for people playing just now in OBT they are only taking their first baby steps on how to play the game; which is also the reason why mistakes will be very prominent, and most of the time it is at a phase where you’ve wasted too much time to consider rerolling. People either have the choice to reroll and waste all that progression they’ve made, or simply quit. People will be more inclined to quit if they reroll because of how tedious grinding and leveling can be.

Sure high level content is only cleared by specific class builds, but I don’t think that’s the case. Some builds will just excel much more than other builds for some Content, and vice versa- and that’s totally fine, because you also need team work to be able to clear higher level content. And so it all depends into meshing with the people you play with rather than always having to change your builds every time a new content is up >_>

Meshing? And then there will be people like you who come along, flaunting their perfect build, and showing that “oh, my build is much better than yours” and they get replaced afterward. Also some builds tend to be downright useless or serve as a hindrance in endgame content like Earth Tower, you are not researching enough for someone who keeps telling other people to research. If new content continues to balance its way around cookie cutter builds then it makes it all the more useless to have a unique character build, and basing from the latest one, there will surely be more to come like it.

The other con to having circle resets is that some players will opt to just take the cookie cutter builds they’ve not played for the past x levels - a build whose gameplay is far different from their previous build, and thus develop some premature play style for it - speaking from experience on other games I’ve played, this happens, and it’s not quite fun when you’re forcefully teamed up with them.

It will be pretty much the same now regardless because of how endgame works; people will flock to cookie cutter builds and nothing else. Nobody can try to be diverse because you will be useless late game, and you can’t use a circle reset to fix it.

Circle reset will change nothing for newer players who already have the information, but it will at least help the older players who made mistakes and created unique builds. In fact, the very reason why a person would change circles is to ensure that they have a role in the party you’re in. Also, if they have changed circles with hard earned money, I am extremely sure they’re prepared to adjust their playstyle for that new circle. It will be rough at the start but it’s not like people can’t learn to adjust anyways. Nobody would decide to change their class and think that they should do the same playstyle as they did previously.

Yeah, still no. A Circle reset isn’t the only means that’s going to benefit IMC in terms of financial support. There’s a very thin line between feedback and complaints. But honestly, if people cannot live without a Circle Reset, they might as well quit the game.

Yes, but it’s still a form of profit either way. There’s nothing wrong with getting more profit at all. It’s a much better option than them releasing P2W material like upgrading anvils that let you upgrade without losing potential and whatnot, which is leagues worse than a circle reset would be. People can live without a Circle reset, definitely, but it just quickens the phase where you just get bored simply because it’s either bad or you find a particular circle boring. With not much endgame content going around, people trying out new builds with their invested character is one way to spice up gameplay besides creating an alt. No harm, no foul.

I think that sums up most of my opinion with regards to Circle Reset, regardless if you believe the good in everyone that they will not abuse it, it will still be abused. Just look at all these bots running around the game.

As I said, controlled circle resets. It’s easy to know what kind of reset would be abusable, and there are measures to implement the system to avoid those kind of abuse. Bots really have nothing to do with this argument at all, I don’t see how it fits, and even then IMC is already doing measures to prevent them from overrunning the game.

I believe cricle reset is not happening.

I do believe however… something like RO rebirth is coming, cause it simply make too much sense.

Want to reset ur circle after we rebalance ur class? Here is rebirth! now u can take even more circles (maybe keep some skills), but u will need 50% more exp for the same level!

We were both misinterpreting each other.

And the worst part is that one of us thinks it’s much of a big issue that it’s worth derailing a thread for… I assure you, it is not.

Circle reset is not entirely changing from archer to swordsman or cleric… Jus within the same class tree. Why all crybaby crying for ?

1 Like

See, controlled resets work. I don’t see the problem with it at all. That’s what I’ve been trying to say for a long time but it seems to just fly over people’s heads. Even I would despise a complete and consequence-free circle reset, there still needs to be restrictions in place to make it so that it’s not a get-out-of-jail free card, but something more akin to a quick damage fix.

Scrubbiest topic I’ve seen here so far. How about using a little bit of brain and doing minimal research?

That’s actually one of the things that make this game appealing to a lot of people, especially people who came here looking for “Ragnarok’s spiritual successor”. If you’re after dumbed down experience, there are plenty other games out there (literally 99% of them) that will suit such need.

2 Likes

Yeaah, keep insulting. it just shows what kind of person you are :blush:

Trust me, Circle resets won’t even be priced high because the community will always complain about high prices like they always do. And money isn’t the issue? a player decides if its worth their money to spend it, in most cases yes, they would rather pay than have to grind another character~ Convenience. As always, the root cause.

Hobbies. I’m a hobby artist, it requires effort to practice it. Any hobby or profession requires effort. and unless you’re a 10 year old playing this game, there’s no reason to keep saying that researching and looking up information is such a heavy chore or task x_x;; Google is your best friend.

Nothing can not be abused. Do you not know how to correlate? Bots are abused. What more of this Circle reset you’re trying to introduce? :stuck_out_tongue:

Come circle resets:

“yeaah, let’s make a priest3 into chaplain”
“oh, I’m 280, let’s change to pala3 pardoner and sell barrier scrolls”

“ok got barb3 into doppel”
“I’m 280, time to change into Squire2, Templar”

pretty much. as much as you think it cant be abused, it will be and that’s the gist of it.

3 Likes

Exactly, effort and reward for putting that effort in is exactly what makes it good.

Take even a chess as another example. It’s also a game and it can be a hobby. Does it mean you’re supposed to simply enjoy moving figures from one spot on the board to another without using any brain cells and doing a lot of research? What a joke.

Some casuals are just way too casual.

1 Like

What about when you build a character up to C7 and realize you screwed yourself because there was a typo in your classes skill description?

I am referring to a recent discovery for Sadhu’s “Transmit Prana” ability. Recent videos and a clarification from an IMC admin confirm the skill actually transmits 50% (not 50) of your INT to allies. The skill can also transmit to your Out of Body spirit, giving massive damage potential to your OOB auto-attacks.

This doesn’t justify the need for circle resets entirely, but I bet there will be at least a handful of Sadhus who wish they knew this before cutting at C2 to get Druid.

1 Like

You said it yourself - typo in skills description is the problem. I totally agree that quite a few skill descriptions may sound either misleading or don’t have enough information in them. And that’s what they should fix/work on.

It will be a problem if the controls or limits aren’t strict enough. The most i can think fair is only 1 circle at a time with around 3 months restriction together with pricey one. The purpose for this reset that most players can accept is “accident”. More than that, can be considered as doing that in purpose. Able to change / reset that will be against the system that they designed and against majority of players who already did their best to level in hard way.

1 Like

There is really no reason to allow resets. Should one mess up their build or realize that it’s not what they are looking for, the mistake falls on him/her. Allowing reset will simply lead to everyone using the same build(s) which would be utterly pointless and kills the fun.

2 Likes

Yeah keep insulting. It just shows what kind of person you are.

Really now, look who’s talking. :joy: And still stalking me at the other thread I see, very funny.

Trust me, Circle resets won’t even be priced high because the community will always complain about high prices like they always do. And money isn’t the issue? a player decides if its worth their money to spend it, in most cases yes, they would rather pay than have to grind another character~ Convenience. As always, the root cause.

Really, this is only your argument? People complaining about pricing? Ugh, I thought this was going to be interesting, but I guess not.

Money is not an issue. People may complain about a high cost but so long as it’s on a reasonable level it wouldn’t hurt at all. It’s the price to pay for having to change classes.

And what’s really so bad about convenience? You think of convenience like some monster that makes everyone lazy. How about you don’t use escalators and elevators, or use public transportation instead of your own car, or use a small rag instead of a mop to clean up a spill? You seem to be so absorbed on taking on things on a more difficult route, so might as well just embrace it right?

Yes, convenience makes things easier. But there’s nothing wrong about making things easier. And let’s not forget that having a controlled reset would mean resetting is not as easy as it would be.

Nothing can not be abused. Do you not know how to correlate? Bots are abused. What more of this Circle reset you’re trying to introduce? :stuck_out_tongue:
Come circle resets:
“yeaah, let’s make a priest3 into chaplain”
“oh, I’m 280, let’s change to pala3 pardoner and sell barrier scrolls”
“ok got barb3 into doppel”
“I’m 280, time to change into Squire2, Templar”
pretty much. as much as you think it cant be abused, it will be and that’s the gist of it.

And that’s the very purpose of how a controlled reset should be.

On your scenarios:

  1. Here I’m assuming the initial build path was Priest C3 -> Chaplain -> Paladin c1 -> Pardoner. Then we can think of possible restrictions to prevent this from happening. How about we make sure that you can reset only 1 circle at a time, and give a cooldown of 1~3 months for next usage. Goodluck trying to get to C3 Paladin then, and see if it would still be relevant later after a long time of waiting. You would be stuck for a long time without being able to take advantage of the barrier scrolls. Of course, with patience you will still attain what you want, but then you could’ve used that time alternatively to make a new character with that build. Makes sense right?

  2. Alright, 2 circles of Barb and 1 circle of Doppel. Besides the restriction above that we could add, how about we give the Templar class an exemption that it cannot be changed or changed into, considering the mechanics behind the class itself? It is certainly reasonable, because changing out from Templar would mean you will abandon the guild, and changing into Templar would allow you to create a guild with ease, so restricting any possibility of changing into this class is warranted. Then if he really wanted squire he could just wait 2~6 months and change two of the circles in his build into Squire, no harm in that. And again, in that span of time, he had a choice of creating another character with the same build, but he has the option to simply change his main character’s class instead to fit more. And he can’t abuse going to templar due to restrictions within the class itself.

See how a bit of brainstorming can prevent abuse? Singular circle resets at a time with cooldown is actually one of the more sensible forms of resets for this game, since it doesn’t allow a person to complete change his build immediately, while at the same time those who want a quick fix or want to try out an r7 class can use it and wait for a month or so to change again or change back in case they did not like it.

2 Likes

Holy moly guys.
As stated many times, the reset would work something like this;

  1. It would cost TP, and perhaps free in case of major patch
  2. It wouldn’t be possible to switch from say swordsman to wizard
  3. It would have some sort of cooldown
  4. The circle reset would end up in fresh C1, meaning they’d still have to do a fair share of grind to regain those class lvls

There are several reasons why someone would want a reset;

  1. The class got nerfed/changed
  2. A mistake was made
  3. The build wasn’t as enjoyable as thought
  4. Skill description sucked
  5. They acquired something (item, achievement etc) on this char and don’t want to lose it because of one of the reasons above

All of these are valid reasons to want one. If one of those things happened in early levels, noone would care. But this game has 280 levels right now.

But that person is just a scrub and shud get gud

Great reason there for restricting and very possibly making that person go to another game, thus also losing a potentially good income. And before you say “good riddance”, no, it is a not a good thing, we want a big playerbase and income as possible for this game.

Also, in case #1 it wasn’t anything the person could do to ‘git gud’, a patch came and his build became obsolete. You think a good portion of the players will go ‘Whelp, time to reroll!’? You maybe would but I can guarantee a big number of people wouldn’t. We don’t want to lose those numbers.

It’s super duper easy and nice to reroll just do that

We have not the same experience with the game obviously. Again, you might think that but a great deal of players do not enjoy rerolling a lvl 150-280 char. Also, in case #4 that wouldn’t really help them would it?
And people with jobs/studies, which most likely is a very large portion of the playerbase, does not have the time to just reroll. Those are the same players with some sort of income. There goes playerbase and income, nice.

people would just class reset into whatevers good in the meta, no more variety!

First, if the meta is so narrow that there’s too little variety, that’s a problem on it’s own and should be fixed. I’d much rather see a big variety-meta than use that as a reason not to have class resets.
Secondly, the alternative would be that the person keeps using a build that either is unenjoyable or ‘went bad’ because of patch, reroll and undo tons of time/achievements/etc or just simply leave for another game. Does that really sound optimal?

you shouldn’t be able to change from a sword to rod, that makes no sense

it would be abuseble because people would choose a easy pve class and then change to a harder class

Ehum;

It wouldn’t be possible to switch from say swordsman to wizard

The circle reset would end up in fresh C1, meaning they’d still have to do a fair share of grind to regain those class lvls

3 Likes

That is exactly what I was thinking about a controlled circle reset. You give a massive cooldown for usage so that it can only be used to fix a few outlying circles in their build, or for the desperate ones, to make sure that they take a very long time of waiting before changing completely into another complete build.

I mean, who would be crazy enough to wait, let’s say, 5~6 months, and spend money for an entirely different build for a main character like Wiz C3 Elem C3 to C3 Cryo C2 Psychokino. At that point I’m sure a person will just be encouraged to make a new character instead because of that long wait inbetween.

But in case he’s done something like Wiz C3 Elem C2 Sorcerer and begins to regret the Sorcerer choice, then he could fix that outlying circle and fix it to a more satisfying build for the player. At least then he wouldn’t need to waste a whole time re-rolling another character with the same skills and trees except for the very late r6. It would just demotivate him/her to keep playing and might just make him/her quit.

this ! +1 map completion with a 5 lvl range I am tired of exploring maps I already explored

youtube gameplay videos are terrible right now because they are from cbt lots of things got nerfed and skills moved I went druid just to end up realizing that sterea troth was moved so I have to go druid C2 instead of plague doctor if I want that class to be usefull , and a lot of classes arent taken at all because they are terrible right now and need a buff … swordsman is probably the best all around class for now to much dmg still tanky and a lot of aoe wait for hoplite to be nerfed and we will see if you want a circle reset or not