It could help to disable some overpowered skills for TBL, GTW or a planned PvP room. Or to highly nerf them.
well seems the discussion fire is up and going. I think it is also this could be a good chance for me to gather up the general impression of current PVP status. but while the discussion is on going on here, I also thinking I could research on basic data. Job ratio, etc etcsâŚ
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i think at this point we can all agree that Retiarius C3 is way too OP beyond acceptable,
Itâs a broken class and is truly a counter to everything.
- Pull Rete was fine until IMC decided to overbuff it with Silence attribute and reduces CD to 25s at any level.
The slience debuff is what makes this skill disgustingly OP, since thereâs no way to counter it at all.
Once you got pulled = youâre dead. High evasion char? -100% evasion , high block char? Disarm
Disgusting.
Solution : Remove the Silence attribute. - Vital Protection. Again, this one IMC overbuffed it with the Immune Critical Damage. it was already fine with +x flat Critical Resist since the main point of this skill is the revive. Disgusting but still was acceptable.
but now, it renders all Critical Atk-Type character useless by this single skill. and to top it off, the skill downtime is only 20s.
you know, to make a Critical Atk-Type character works you need to sacrifice alot of Physical Atk to get decent amount of Critical Rate (Green gem instead of Red gem). That means the white damage(non-cri) will be weak.
To make everything they worked for useless like that by 1 skill, itâs just too much.
Solution : Revert it back to +x Critical Resist or shortend the duration / extend the CD by alot. We talking something like 10s duration or 120s CD.
These 2 points are just my biggest issues with the class right now. Retiarius itself can already go full con with Disarm and Rete skills, and they can do tons of damage by their combo alone. They donât need these OP utilities at all.
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Recently learned thanks to bros at the swordie forum that you can counter the silence with Shadowgaler Cards, which will give you 60% silence resist if you use 3x 10*, and since it is a purple card it wonât affect your offense/defense all that much.
iâve already tried it but then i had no luck resisting it(got silenced 6-7 out of 10 times roughly)
so, i thought that it was the Pain Barrier that resisted it or just randomly resisted.
it might actually be because of my bad luck but all it take for them to kill is just 1 silence.
atleast itâs good to know that the card actually works, i guess.
I hope you mean Druid is broken as in half itâs skills donât work.
The vines are strong sure, but itâs basically all thatâs left after they disabled grass skills and â â â â on transform. CC in general is strong and the easier is it to land the stronger it is.
Make most of the Physical attack builds actually work (with the exception of some buff reliant pvp champs like Reitarius, Lancer, Matador, Rogue, Pied Piper).
I do know that the Popolion post indicated that there would be a revamp in Dodge/Block Mechanics and I do hope that comes true. Itâs always dodge or block, Itâs not fun when youâre doing a combo and you dealt almost 0 damage.
Make a NEW attribute for 2H swordies, just like you had for Paladin and Monk. Just make it something useful.
Improve Pain barrier, add a % chance in resisting debuffs.
Improve Duration to Swordsman buffs.
ADD a R10 ATTRIBUTE for EVERY CLASS BELOW RANK 8. I mean come on, wasnât TOS Philosophy is revolved around letting us choose whatever class we want to have? Why is there a big discrepancy towards power creep of lower rank classes to upper rank classes. Fix this, we want to build our own character (at least for me) , not some brainless meta slaved class because Itâs overpowered.
You would always see the same classes on TBL, I wouldnât suggest Nerfing for example Reitarius to the ground, or Sage/Kino builds, but rather the development team should look into buffing other classes to make them at least viable in the meta.
Im pretty sure pain barrier already has a 30% chance.
Yeah as it stands Swordies get natural resistance to debuffs from both Dash and Pain Barrier (one of the reasons why sw3 is so important to have)
Slap on murm helmet and debuff resistance is through the roof but you have to sacrifice reti3 silence.
As far as class balance goes - I feel that archers still need some love. Only pvp-viable archers are pied pipers.
Hunter and scout absolutely need rework. Anything after scout C1 is pretty useless. Hunter is unreliable, the pet gets bugged easily and dies easily. Any CC it provides to 1 target is very short in TBL. Please compare it to something like hook, petrify, or net which last longer/larger range/catches more characters. Snatching should work on ground and flying targets, but have an attribute to do extra damage to flying.
Also, I think that Hackapell leg shot requiring a pistol to use is pretty dumb. You should be able to just take an arrow to the knee.
Sapper stake stockades seem pretty weak later on in the game, considering how small of an area they cover and they only hit once unless you walk into them again. Youâre getting impaled by spikes, it should hurt. Conceal is a useless skill and should be removed from the game. It doesnât work in TBL and it only works on stake stockades. (Whoâs going to walk into a punji trap?) Conceal works in gem feud but stake stockades only last a few seconds there. Punju stake is pretty useless on itâs own and has a long cast time. Collar bomb is almost always resisted and is pretty useless in tbl. Broom trap does hardly any damage in tbl. Claymore is pretty useless. People mostly just ignore sapper traps. Youâd think theyâd be more powerful.
Iâd say all archer classes below rank 6 are pretty weak for TBL. I would say that cannoneer is pretty OP with itâs AOE and CD times.
I think people can see your shadow again in Gem feud when youâre cloaked as a scout. So thanks for that. Antidote still doesnât work reliably on my archer for poison. Iâve heard people say itâs from rogue. Been like this for years with no fix. Iâve reported it numerous times.
I think Pied Pipers sleep skill is still bugged in tbl, where u can do multiple hits without the enemy waking up. Iâm wondering if playing a song should be changed to reveal a cloaked piper.
As an archer, with very decent block pen, I cannot even hit a hoplite murm. Like, they are pretty much completely invincible. And if I should happen to get their HP down, in gem feud, they can just pop an elixir, etc and be full hp again. And as people have said, Retiarius is very OP now.
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Meteor which has a HUGE aoe doing huge damage with 3516% and even more damage with Agny necklace is OP for TBL. 2 Overheats I think. Same with electrocute. 4 overheats and an insanely huge range with good damage. You canât compare how much damage these things do against whales as the standard. You have to think of the average person. Thatâs why we need standardized gear. Thereâs just too many variables for balancing, you need some constants.
Many people use Sage in Gem Feud because Dimensional compression is so powerful. Most people die in the first cast, 2 overheats. People abuse the range at which it can be cast from so they can hit you from off screen.
Matadors c3 bull seems OP now as well. And people can abuse the range to fire it from off screen at you. 1 hit kill.
Kino is perhaps the most notoriously unbalanced class in tbl. Two teleports to get to the enemy. It desyncs the kino so you canât counterattack on time. Magnetic force with itâs buffed , huge sweeping range. All of your enemies in a neat pile for raise which lasts so long. Diminishing returns doesnât do much for these skills because if youâre caught youâre pretty much dead. I think heavy gravity is still bugged so you get frozen when itâs cast on you.
The amount of HP that clerics and mages get doesnât make sense, considering they can get away with having just con. Or con with one other stat. Huge HP and Huge damage. Archer needs at least 2 stats imo. And more realistically 3. (str, con, dex) . And given they have the lowest HP in the game, it doesnât make sense. In almost all games Iâve played, mage always has the lowest HP to balance out their huge power. And cleric the second lowest (except if theyâre a monk/paladin, etc)
It can be impossible for a whole team of people to kill a cleric in Gem feud.
Let Barbarian Giant Swing work in TBL.
Bullet markers rank 10 skill, outrage, does hardly any damage in TBL while leaving you wide open. Only good thing itâs for is freezing people. When I compare it to other rank 10 skills, it isnât very good.
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That was a good point someone made about the variety of weapons classes use. Trying to find a good pistol is much harder/more expensive than finding a good rod or staff.
Mage weapons: Rod, staff. Dagger. -3
Cleric weapons: Rod, Mace, 2h Mace, dagger. -4
Archer weapons: Bow, Crossbow, Pistol, Cannon, Musket, dagger. -6
Swordy weapons: Sword, 2h sword, Spear, 2h Spear, Rapier, mace. Dagger, Pistol. -8
And you can only use certain skills with certain weapons (for archer and swordy). I believe mage can use any skill with any weapon. And I think thereâs only 1 cleric skill which requires a 2h mace. Almost all cleric skills work with a rod or 1h mace. Archer and Swordy need to specialize, and some skills do not work with certain weapons.
And Iâd say that getting a good rod ichor would be much easier than something like a good pistol ichor.
(oh i forgot swordy can equip rod as well lol)
Give reasons to wizards to invest in other stats. For example make cast time of most wiz skills longer but the time can be reduced by dex. Force them to invest in int to deal damage as we know almost all the damage comes from weapons.
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Cast times arenât too much of an issue since all the strong skills are instant cast. How about we tie SPR(or INT) to status effect durations like raise/sleep/freeze, force wizards to have SPR = character level if they want max duration debuffs.
Already did it with Chrono buffs so hey.
Wonât solve the problem with compression but that will be resolved with gear normalization.
Is this ALL because of it not working on gemstone? Because no one complains about this during TBL or general PVE. Jesus, lol.
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STR/INT to give armor breakâŚ
I actually donât think this would solve the problem (and would also lead to other problems).
The best course of action would be for block pen to stay on dex, as right now dex is pretty generally worthless as a stat except for that and other very niche circumstances. However, the problem is that the amount of block pen you get from dex just does not scale enough point for point. Or rather, the stat block pen needs to be probably doubly as effective as it is right nowâand thatâs not an exaggeration. (Or, of course, block itself could be half as effective as it is right now).
Some other thoughts would be that critical attacks just need to be better. Not just in PVP though that could be where it shines the most, but there needs to be some inherent attribute or aspect that ignores defense in an obtainable (and noticeable) way. Biggest thing here is that crit attack generally is just an awful stat that provides very little for the amount of investment requiredâever since the combat rework.
Gemstone Feud, FFL, World Bosses. Whatever. Druids are garbage, they have become nothing more than a support class for other real classes.
You wanna play Exorcist or Zealot by all means take Druid 2 for the CC that it provides and the transform stats, but Druid as itâs own DPS, forget it, not even sure why itâs a red class anymore, youâll never be allowed to use itâs DPS skills.
They donât work in Gem
They heal FFL Barrier Crystals (The ones you need to kill to free Hauberk)
and they HEAL WORLD BOSSES. I just spent 20 minutes holding a horde of players hostage at Zaura because I didnât realize my grass was healing him.
This class is by far the most bugged and worthless on itâs own class, and IMC is doing nothing to fix it. Not only that but if you try to convince them to do something about anything, you have to deal with a massive amount of morons working against you.
IMC is like âFix Druid you say? But Lubu20 thinks itâs overpowered, HueMeAllNightLong does to. Not to mention Crevox and BoatShagger thinks itâs okay that itâs taken us over 3 months to fix it, so we must not be doing anything wrong.â
Itâs like trying to feed some dieing children but their parents are shooting at you while you doâŚ
Fixing Druids is a good thing, stop working against me.
Druids are not overpowered, in the past if you complained about the transform stats I could accept it, I would tell you that defense is never overpowered, there is far too much damage in the game for it to be. However now thatâs not even the case, Druids lost most of that durability and they lost all their skills except the CC that they gained.
Opinion discarded.
For one, it is. For two, no one âthinks itâs okay.â But whining non-stop is not the way to get anything fixed, and because the class is so damn good otherwise, there are far more pressing and probably class-breaking things which should get fixed and looked at first.
You seriously say that a class is garbage, because in the one 10 minute long piece of content that you think is crucially important, one single skill does not work the way itâs advertised. And you somehow think that this should be the number one priority for development resources.
You are making it far harder than it needs to be.
This isnât a thread for shitting on a class with a single bug, itâs about PVP balance.
On itâs own no, itâs only good because other Clerics are really strong when you add CC to them.
Complaining is the best way to get anything fixed, voice your complaints, if your voice is loud enough it just might be heard.
I challenge you to find a class that on itâs own is far more â â â â â â by bugs in PvP than Druid. There definitely isnât one. You could argue that Sadhu or Squire are worse classes in PvP, but theyâre not being ruined by bugs, they just suck as is.
It doesnât work AT ALL! You press it and it does nothing, this isnât a typical nerf, âOh Sterea Trof doubles defenses rather that invulnerability during gem feudâ NO IT STRAIGHT UP DOESNâT WORK!
Even if itâs not the #1 Priority, it at least deserves to be on the list, itâs been well over 3 months!
PvP Balance is not just about what is overpowered, itâs what is underpowered or straight up not functioning as well. And that is Druid.
The answer to fixing your Druid issues is just to make the Thorns only root targets who are on top of Chortasmata. Doubt the devs could pull it off without breaking that skill to though.
You wanna know about PvP balance. Iâll tell you.
Locking the BiS behind very difficult PvE content forces gear progression onto PvPers, gear progression is supposed to add more to do in the game for PvEârs, forcing it onto PvPers is just a â â â â move.
Allowing the add on that zooms out your screen is highly advantageous to those who use it and punishes the players who donât pretty harshly. Most games would ban an add on like this. This one is perfectly fine with it though because it works well with the next point.
Having classes like Sage, Psychokino, Matador, or Warlock (TBH that ones not that big a deal) with skills that can one shot or CC for long amounts of time from off screen is pretty ridiculous, they have more range than the game allows the players to see. Itâs like asking the players to cheat. âCome on we gave you 4 screens worth of range, download the programs that modify the game to your will and use it to beat players who canât even see you.â
Or how about the fact that they finally just implemented the change that fixes the game for Sorc/Necros as well as every Physical PvP class that isnât Lancer, HAHA JK itâs locked behind an absurdly low rate in FFL so see you in a hundred days when you can finally play your class as it should have been from the start.
The fact is, this games balance is pretty â â â â â â , and it goes both ways. If youâre not gonna care about those getting screwed over, then you have no right to complain about those who are benefiting more than you.