Tree of Savior Forum

Can Staff please comment on plans for PVP?

General Discussion
#1

@STAFF_Yuri - and whomever else wants to respond

It has been since 6/21 that we last heard about plans for TBL and PVP in general from the 2nd issue of the popolion post - where the Q&A mentioned normalizing attack and defense, addressing rewards and content. Since then it has been straight radio silence.

Can you please give the community some kind of update on your plans? Power creep is still a huge issue in TBL, and the rewards are meaningless. They don’t drive people to play, and those who do play quit very quickly due to the imbalances. Gear attack and defense need to be normalized, and the rewards for playing meaningful.

The MMR system is also broken, and it promotes grinding rather than winning or losing.

This is also an MMO, and if people could form teams and play together it would encourage team play. Random Queue 3v3 is bad. It works fine with battlegrounds formats like Gemstone but not smaller-scale pvp.

The times also still need to be addressed. On NA - no one is playing 4-6 server time on the weekdays, or bothering to queue 4-6 on weekends. Prime Time on east coast starts at 6pm EST, and I would say similarly 6pm PST (9pm server time) on the west coast. Who is playing 4-6? This needs to be adjusted to something like 7-9pm EST, and keep 10-12pm EST for west coasters.

Please help! PVP is important towards to success of your game.

6 Likes
Once again an absurd difference from the Korean server
#2

I like how some people are switching to reitarius after r10 being a broken pvp character.

That aside i’ll +1, hate to see that the determinant factor in winning pvp is who can one shot faster. Mages benefit waaay better without investing too much, while Physical attack builds need a decent amount of Str/con/dex/spr.

Shields are broken
Kino Sage is broken
Druid is broken
Reitarius is broken
And a lot more to list

Pvp is suffocating, you need to force your build around broken pvp classes to rise.

3 Likes
#3

Yeah most people including the ret3s that play on NA agree that the silence on Pull Rete is brokenly OP. It is basically a screen-wide pull, root, and silence that boosts the damage of a 5000% SFR, 3 OH move. Pretty silly.

I roll ret2 murm since I like to tank and pve as well as pvp, if I pull openly players can counter that with safety zone or other skills and that is fine.

Agreed x1000

Druid is strong, I think that telepathy is broken but that is about it. I shouldn’t be able to disable you completely for 11 seconds while you can still take damage.

#4

So many friends have quit because pvp is a mess… I don’t know why the devs don’t notice the gigantic potential they are wasting making pvp such a joke

2 Likes
#5

No feedback on the latest tests of Guild Territory Wars …
I thought that by that date we would already have some information! :frowning:

About PVP in general: We really need a PVP with premade groups, better still if it is a differentiated queue of TBL that stays 24hrs open (but only count points at certain schedules) .
I really do not understand what the IMC problem with premade … it’s been over a year that the community complains about it and no satisfactory answer

3 Likes
#6

I don’t have a frecking clue why not develop a “free for all” arena open 24h just for fun and keep tbl as ranked matches

4 Likes
#7

Yeah I miss the old PVP rooms in RO where I could just go and chill and mess with people.

2 Likes
#8

THIS. Please IMC make these happen for a natural end game content so as to compensate our endless grinds for those so-called end game gears. Also make Territory wars something enticing and rewarding to play.

Dont forget to fix stability issues (Might as well change your game engine).
Just my suggestion. You have my thanks in advance.
MORE popolions saved for ToS.
@STAFF_Amy @STAFF_Yuri @STAFF_Ines @STAFF_Bob @STAFF_Letitia @STAFF_Ethan @GM_Francis

#9

I am not allowed to tell the very specifics about updates, but I could tell you that there are serious updates are planned for a head. Right now, well I could tell that one of the most things I try to research or plan thing is related with PvP issues, like the last infographic things, I also managed some more basic information works being done or kept on going behind the scenes. To Acquire meaningful info. I also aware of the situation regarding the imbalances I also could tell you that I shared such information with the devs about it. They also know about it. I assure you that another batch of updates will come.

But to make the discussions better, I’m welcome to have opinions rather than just statements.
If I want to make a suggestion, I need more than “Its bad” I need Why did you feel that way, what skill is what, So I could actually go to do something with the data. So I could prove it and bring it on. Hey, users said this and this, and I run a data analysis and if it was true. To convince some one you always need more than just personal expreiences, cause its different people by people. the most ideal situation will be just like I said above, Support by user or mine Experience, with solid data.

Guild Territory War Will get update and they will going to have nice updates.
But for more information, it will be more specifics will be written at next issue of Popolion Post.
Which… will not going to be that far away.

8 Likes
#10

Currently, ToS is using ELO system, I think i could quote this from the last PPP

We do have an ELO rating system in place for TBL, but the reason it isn’t always clear is the short resetting time of TBL seasons. Two hours of play per day are reset in units of one week, which is too short of a period to feel a significant difference. To rectify this, we want to implement a proper ELO system into the rankings and adjust the season resetting times. We also thought about creating different subranks for TBL, but considering the number of players participating at any given time, we figured that would inevitably create problems for auto-matching. The same is true for other suggestions like party matching. Still, we’re willing to consider these options depending on the players’ feedback and participation levels after gear standardization is introduced in TBL.

I’ll be happy to have experiences and suggestions with it.

3 Likes
#11

:tired: <<<—< This is us!
Waiting for Change!
So many Threads that are made unnoticed,
TBL Videos that Clearly shows
How bad pvp in this game.

My Suggestion is make 1vs1 Arena and make us que as a Team in TBL after all its a TBL and a PK MAP Zone that is open 24hrs for PVP try hard fans in this game.

And More important THING is #NOTO1HITKO

2 Likes
#12

I can’t say much about balance since I’m not quite at that level yet haha, but I do feel bad that I can’t make group with my friends to play PVP together, it was an experience I was looking forward to :frowning:

I kinda like the open PVP room idea, but I feel it overlaps a little with the guild wars and since we don’t have that much players I don’t think we should split them up like that. Instead I would focus on improving the PVP modes we already have :slight_smile:

About the 1x1 suggestion
Hmmm, the problem of making 1x1 a thing is that I feel that ToS is not (and likely will never be) a very balanced game for 1x1 battles.

I hate to bring up RO since this is a different game and making comparisons feels like we are demanding the same experience, but RO is the perfect example of it: even with few classes compared to ToS it was never balanced for 1x1s, instead each (most :rofl:) classes/builds had a role to play and they made sense when battling in groups.

#13

The main issue regarding pvp, imo, is the super long and overpowered control some classes have, teleport/blink cd is too short and the 1hko burst damage is total unfun (hi, retiarus), since is so easy to manage

1 Like
#14

  1. What do you mean by power creep? You referring to the people who grind for weeks in dungeons/velcof and risked multiple RNG trying to upgrade their weapon to +16 +21 then grinds everyday to get BS to enhance their weapon(s), versus you who probably didn’t grind much in your TOS life holding a +5 0 trans falchion shouting foul play and not able to kill anyone in tbl?

  2. “TBL rewards are meaningless” So you mean this is the reason that contributes to low TBL participation, and your genius idea of introducing better rewards is going to solve it? You see Remiri, the way the world works, is very special. Let me give you a scenario:

i. TBL top 3 now has rewards of 1st place 300TP!, 2nd place 200TP and 3rd place 100TP per week. Hooray you cheered because this is what you asked for. Good job.
ii. Suddenly next week, you realized the way TBL is being played has changed. Why? Because strong guild with many PVP players, will now work more actively to control TBL by staging matches. How does staging match works?

Player X (Guild A) + Player X (Guild A) + Player X (Guild A)

VS

Player X (Guild A) + YOU + Player X (Guild A)

ii. If you are in 3rd or 4th place, what guild A can do is, ask the 2 guys in your team to drop the match. This includes DPS not dpsing, healers not healing you. Why? Coz your teamate are not in top 10, or they dont want an outsider like you to get TP in top 3. Better our guild getting the rewards than you right?

iii. Now you talked about power creep. Your “great” plan to introduce rewards in TBL, actually made it more attractive for power creeps to “control” the TBL game. Then after this you will be making a post here saying “Power creeps now control tbl rewards!”

I know where you are coming from Remiri, for proposing this. But I think its clearly you are a very short term thinker and pretty much did not or failed to anticipate the outcome of your idea which you did not filter and just randomly threw out here hoping someone to pat you saying it’s a good idea.

@STAFF_Yuri
I would like to end this with “Please do not introduce hefty rewards in TBL or it is going to make it very political and attracts match staging.”

#15

I will quote something I said on facebook group about TBL:

I think the ranking system is unfair since it rewards people who play more than who wins, it’s a grind and your win rate means nothing. People who play 30 times and do not lose a single battle will be ranked lower than people who played 80 times and lost 30, there is no balance because who can play every schedule can keep scoring without limits

Why not have a limited number of scored matches, something like 30 TBL matches and after that you can keep playing just for fun but not scoring anymore.

PvP free Zone
We have been asking for this for ages, I don’t understand why it’s not implemented already, does not seem to be a difficult thing do to.

1 Like
#16

And I was also asking them for it too, but the good thing is not only just do it, but how to deliver it Good.
Not exactly same thing, but few current existing things will going to receive … some nice modification.

#17

@TalkGokSingSong:
Minus the aggressive tone, your points indeed make sense IMHO.

#18

The community asked for a premade pvp a year ago if I’m not mistaken …

A 24h PVP available for players that can not appear at the specific time of TBL or gemstone is something to consider too, even if without prizes, like a PvP free Zone

I personally prefer a differentiated queue of TBL (Premade one) and TBL stays 24hrs open (but only count points at certain schedules).

Keep up the good work, you’re the STAFF who communicates better with the community and works like a machine on fire! Thank you so much for this.

1 Like
#19

Power Creep generally means the game gets to a point where the meta is one of two things:

  • I am taking no damage at al
    OR
  • I got one shot

This happens when +23 trans10 exists due to Diamond Anvils, and there is no way to grind them since they don’t exist. It also happens when there are classes that can focus 100% on CON and Block to the detriment of other stats, and still one-shot people because their weapon is second to none.

Rewards can be as simple as a points shop - similar to the way it was before uphill took it over, with cosmetics or QoL stuff in there you can buy with the points you build from matches. When you win a match you earn points, and you earn more for kills and such. Would be a nice way to incentivize people to pvp.

We all learned with the previous GvG terribleness that offering TP rewards for high ranking will be exploited. You weren’t the only one who played back then.

Also I would appreciate keeping the conversation civil - your attitude is very insulting and condescending.

3 Likes
#20

Yuri - thank you for the response it means a lot to know that there are updates in the future to address PVP issues.

To be fair, every one of my points in the OP barring one had suggestions on how to fix the problems.

  • Power Creep - resolved by gear normalization
  • Incentive for play - offer meaningful rewards instead of a once a day box with joke rewards.
  • Encourage Team Play - allow players to queue as a party for TBL
  • Times are bad - move 4-6pm to 7-9pm
  • MMR is broken (this is the one i didn’t provide opinion) - make it so losses are just as impactful as winning. Right now you lose 10 points for a loss, and gain ~25 for winning. This just makes it a grind. If you lose to a high ranked group the impact should be minimal and if you beat them it should mean more. Similarly, if the teams are evenly ranked both a win and a loss should be the same in points.
1 Like