Tree of Savior Forum

Archer3 skill choice

Swift Step 15 is a given. Multishot 15 is a given.

Oblique Shot and Heavy Shot should probably stay at level 1 forever, because the small damage increase isn’t worth the SP cost.

That leaves Twin Arrows. From what I understand, this skill hits twice, once for 100% + skillAtk and once for just 50%. If that’s the case, it seems like it would still be worth keeping at lv. 1 for the reduced SP cost, since it’s 5 Overheat and the attribute would have slightly better scaling than on other single target skills (because of the 150% per hit). That is, if I’m not mistaken as to the mechanics here.

EDIT: Twin arrows does 100% + SkillAtk and has a T1 modifier of +100%. The actual numbers displayed on each hit are random proportions of the actual damage dealt.

So basically I’m left with two options. Kneeling shot to 10, ending with 2 in twin arrows - or keep kneeling shot at 7, and have enough points sitting around to 5/5 twin arrows.

I’m just not sure it’s necessary to max twin arrows. Thoughts?

No need to max twin arrow really. It’s more of a choice.

Do you want more damage on it early on? If so then level it. (+150 multipliable damage per hit *5 is quite a bit at lower levels)

Or do you want it for extra utility? If so just leave it at one.

Also 100% + skill damage? It’s fine and all to use Dream’s method of simplifying it, but make sure you know how everything else works with it.

And, both hits deal the same damage on the skill sim video, so unless they changed the 2nd hit to deal less damage, they both deal full damage.

I’m reasonably sure I do know how skill damage works in detail, at least in general. What I’m not certain of is the particular mechanics of twin arrows.

(If you look on TOSbase, every skill that doesn’t explicitly list a percentage also adds p.atk, which is the 100%. With the exception of that one skill that has 90% I don’t remember which it is)

As I understand it, skill damage is added to p.atk and the sum is reduced by monster def. Then, if it’s a crit, that’s 1.5x + crit attack.

I have a second archer3 whose stats are moderately… screwed up, but it’s hard to figure out what exactly’s going on with twin arrows. The second hit seems to do much less damage than the first hit, on average, so I’m not sure whether it’s not applying the skill’s base attack, or if it’s using half the p.atk value, or something else.

I’ve never used Kneeling Shot though so I’m wondering whether the ~290 attack speed difference is significant.

@FLoki also posted a video where Twin Arrow does weaker damage on the 2nd hit. I was assuming that it’s because the skill works like Seism or Spiral Arrow where the multi-hits is actually just considered a single hit.

Now I’m really unsure.

Sadly, I can’t do any in-depth test for the new Twin Arrow as I do not own an Archer C3 myself. It’s not that hard to test though, try doing tests with a 0 variance bow/xbow against a small monster. Test the damage dealt w/o using a headgear with Patk enchant then try testing the damage again w/ a headgear w/ Patk enchant.

Put the results here.

Hmm I don’t have any headgear with P.atk, but I can at least contribute some numbers.

With a dunkel crossbow: 159-162 P.atk, 19 critical attack
Twin Arrows lv 5 (320 attack), attribute 20%

Versus Kepa (2 P.def, Small size = no penalty, Cloth armor = +50% from Twin Arrows) I would expect ~860 damage noncrit and ~1310 damage on a crit, if the skill applies 320 damage to each hit.

This is what I’m seeing:

826 611 = 1437
1034 397 = 1431
839 595 = 1434
*1524 *679 = 2203
724 713 = 1437
*1230 *978 = 2208
*1507 *696 = 2203
1002 435 = 1437
980 457 = 1437

How consistent! :heart_eyes: Looks like you’re right; the damage for the whole hit is calculated at once and then displayed in a semi-random proportion between the two different hits. And the final value falls a bit short of what was expected, so… I wonder what’s going on?

After some fiddling… it looks like my enhance attribute isn’t being applied.

160 + 320 - 2 // P.atk + Skill damage - Monster def
*1.5 + 19 // Critical strike
*1.5 // Cloth armor bonus
*2 = 2208// Two hits!

Without critical

478 * 1.5 * 2 = 1434

So… this is an exciting yet disappointing result. I was hoping skill damage would be applied twice, and it is… but unfortunately the enhance attribute must either be bugged or broken.

I think what we need first is … the actual T3 modifier. The only way to accurately know is to use the method I gave and by the way, try using an enhanced yellow gem to further reduce the damage variance.

Once we know the actual T3 modifier, we can see how much your actual physical attack affects the damage output. This way we can easily make a breakdown of the damage and see what’s really wrong with the 2nd hit.

According to this thread the only T3 modifier here is +50% for Twin Arrows vs. cloth armor.

I’ll get additional numbers on my new archer once twin arrows is unlocked, that will eliminate the enhance attribute entirely and perhaps give some insight.

Oh wait wait, I meant T1 lol sorry

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Ah gotcha.

Well I should be able to get some good data, I found a p.atk headgear on one of my alts I’d forgotten about and I can use a leather bangle and a T1 yellow gem to eliminate the variance on the dunkel xbow. I’ll card up to archer3 and test this out.

Yup and try testing on a non-cloth armor enemy. So we can get the exact T1 modifier and see what’s really wrong with the 2nd hit. I know we could just remove the 50% T3 modifier if tested against cloth but I think it’s really better to test w/o it.

P.Atk 86-86, 8 Crit Atk, Twin Arrows lv. 1 (151 Atk), 0% Attribute
Target: Leaf Bug, 3 DEF, Small, Plate Armor (0%)

Expected: 234 * 2 = 468 noncrit, 718 crit

343, 125 = 468
300, 168 = 468
*510, *208 = *718
339, 129 = 468

P.Atk 128-128, 8 Crit Atk, Twin Arrows lv. 1 (151 Atk), 0% Attribute
Target: Leaf Bug, 3 DEF, Small, Plate Armor (0%)

Expected: 276 * 2 = 552 noncrit, 844 crit

*629, *215 = 844
*561, *283 = 844
*424, *420 = 844
390, 162 = 522
391, 161 = 522
370, 182 = 522

I would say that’s pretty definitive. Skill modifier is +100% and the attribute is broken.

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So the damage fluctuation is just pretty much a randomizer for these fake multi-hit skills, the same case for Seism, Spiral Arrow etc. T1 modifier remains 200%. Pretty much same as my tests back on CBT2.

Yep. What I’m more concerned about is the large pile of silver that isn’t giving me a damage boost right now. XD

To the bug reports forum we go…

I’m assuming it’s like this. Since Twin Arrow was changed, maybe it was a copy paste of the old version with changed scripts and skill ID. Thus the attribute does not affect this new Twin Arrow. lol

Twin Arrow sounds worse than it used to be imo.

I really don’t see a difference? It used 200% T1 modifier as well back on CBT2.

it’s twice as strong at lv1 as heavy shot for the same SP.

plus it gets 50% bonus damage against cloth targets… nifty for focusing down mages in and out of dungeons.

when the attribute gets fixed, it’ll be even better… :smiley:

AA build = 1 in Twin Arrow, the rest in Kneeling Shot
Skill-spam build = Max Twin Arrow, the rest in Kneeling Shot

I have on video spiral arrow taking the blessing bonus on all the 6 fake multi hits… Dunno if this is a visual bug tho. But the mods on spiral arrow goes all in the first hit, like armor type, size, flying, etc.

i wanted to ask a thing, how does heavy shot works? because vs some enemies it does +50% dmg and i don’t know why, is it vs plate/leater/cloth or what? i found some information that it is vs plate armor but it’s very old and i don’t know if it’s still like that