Tree of Savior Forum

Archer Revamp Brainstorm

Schwarzer raiter
This class has 3 things I would like addressed should a revamp ever come:

  • main hand use/compatibility
  • off hand use (independent of main hand use)
  • mounted combat

Main hand use/compatibility
The pistol is essentially still a “side arm” and not the primary weapon on an IRL reiter. That said that doesn’t mean all SR skill can’t be pistol skills. A step in this direction would be to follow in the DW damage calculations of the swordsman where damage = MHand% + OHand%. Wild shot would be a candidate for this (if it isn’t already).

Independent off hand use
Off hand use should not prevent main hand use. Remember how you could use AA (patched out) then later oblique shot while retreat shot was active? It IMHO this should be the identity they went for with SR instead of “pistol only”. Because technically you are multitasking, you could balance out the dps by decreasing atk and 2ndary atk for “extended animation” pistol skills like retreat shot and marching fire.

Mounted combat
Mounting should allow you to perform any action while moving. A lot of skills in this game require you to “stay still to cast”. A mount’s legs aren’t your own legs so mount legs should be able to continue moving while the rider does ANYTHING.

This is basically running shot but all the time for any skill (not just AA) so long as you are mounted. To balance this you could attach movement speed to attributes available per rank of SR:

  • cavalry master 1 at c1: allow movement during any action at 40% move speed
  • cavalry master 2 at c2: allow movement during any action at 70% move speed
  • cavalry master 3 at c3: allow movement during any action at 100% move speed

You can also increase pet stamina drain then allow ranks in the class to negate that drain

  • companion riding at c1- can use skills while riding companion at 100% move speed and increase pet stamina drain by 100%
  • cavalry master 1 at c1: reduce pet stamina drain by 30%
  • cavalry master 2 at c2: reduce pet stamina drain by 40%
  • cavalry master 3 at c3: reduce pet stamina drain by 50%

C3 would put you at 100% move speed on any action at 150% stamina drain.

I would also rearrange skill placement in addition to reworking some skills
C1
The 1st circle will essentially be movement related skill because from just c1 you would drastically improve any skill by making it mobile.
concentrated fire (removed)

  • this is basically multishot
  • the new companion riding would allow mobile charging of multishot

caracole (same)
evasive action (moved from c3)

  • perform a caracole at no cd when evading

cavalry charge (same skill from hackapell c1)

C2
This would be where you gain your “channeled” skills that you can mix with main hand skills
retreat shot/marching fire

  • add a debuff that reduces primary atk and 2ndary atk by x%

wild shot
Turn this into a buff that automatically fires your pistol when you AA

  • your AA fires your pistol at the same time for 10 sec at 25sec cd

C3
limacon
And finally you get the CA modifier for “mastering” SR

  • adjust the damage calculation to 30 + [40 x (skill lv -1)] for a max of 5 lvs instead of 15
  • this would also make up for the movement functionality being moved to companion riding

Hello peeps,

I just happen to know the answer to some of the discussions you’re having here. First, to the weapon/armor shield thing. Its a pretty easy concept to grasp: ARMOR is something that you wear. WEAPON is something that you wields. If you’re holding it in your hand its a weapon. A SHIELD IS A WEAPON!
There are historical examples of shields being wear for defensive purposes only, of course, as you can see on these images.

[ https://www.thisiswhyimbroke.com/full-samurai-armor/ ]
[ https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/197736239872616293/ ] first image
Samurai armor wearing shields in place of the shoulder pads

And about the QS theme, it is about “Make use of covering to be able to shoot more effectively”. So, in the end, its all about defeating/killing your opponents. (did someone really think you could win a fight by, sustaining adversary damage?) ô_0.

My time is short right now, maybe i come back later.

How would you suggest you target skills like multishot while moving, since the targeting reticule and movement uses the same keys?

The same way they allow rune of justice to be chargable while moving.

Remove the shadow when using cloak. It’s difficult to compete in TBL when people can see that shadow and rush towards you.

That “Draw Shadow” option is making PVP tough. It’s not like archers are invulnerable when cloaking. There are many ways to reveal cloak or classes with mass AOE restricts our movement. Revealing the shadow makes things worse. No reason to take Scout anymore.

Is the shadow also visible when using burrow? BTW they made it possible to use dual pistols when burrowed in last weeks KTOS patch.

guys u think archer revamped is coming?

I think they are working on it, but we have 0 clues (afaik) on when it’s coming so don’t hope to see it soon

For more diversity of builds in class archer 2 basic changes would bring great combinations.

Change 1: Runing Shot as C1 skill in the class quarrel shooter
This is because in Cycle 3, you are required to take 2 cycles that you will not often use depending on the build you are building, just because of the skill runing shot.

Change 2: Falconer class to be accessible in rank 4.

These two classes have the two skills that are fundamental to any combination of archers, (Circling and runing shot) provide an early access to these skills, opens a wide variety of strong combinations for the archer class. Currently many ranks are wasted to possess the skills circling and runing shot, limiting the archer builds.

1 Like

I don’t think this is good for the class itself, also the reason you gave basically says “other’s skill sucks, gimme RS sooner”, and then kill the class and any kind of effort it should deserve.

Quarrel Shooter needs a good revamp to make the whole class useful (it is not bad for a Rank 2 class, but still care some changes), or maybe Running Shot needs to be put in place to not be so mandatory for almost all class combination.

Opening a conversation about a possible rework for the Archer tree, here is all the ideas that the Brazilian community came up with, trying to address some of the concerns of the Archer tree in general

OVERALL CONCEPT

  • Too many sub-weapons choices, necessities, restrictions that should be better implemented
  • Rethink weapon restriction skills, allowing them to be used with as many reasonable sub-weapons as possible. Truth is most of the classes are hard to synergize due to restrictions and, also, lack of damage
  • Most of the classes are “1 skill only”
  • Consider turning actual sub-weapons, like Musket, Pistols and maybe Cannons, as main weapons (cannon as a 2-handed weapon would be nice). This might demand a better thinking on what skills could be used for each weapon

Archer
– Circle 1

  • New Attribute - Archer’s skills can be used regardless the main weapon

  • Multi Shot - slightly increased range and damage

  • Oblique Shot New Attribute - increase number of ricochets based on AoE Attack Ratio/Defense Ratio

  • Full Draw - Group monsters together in range of arrow’s path

  • Swif Step - removed

  • New Skill - Hunters Mark - fire an arrow that reduces enemy defense based on skill level. Attribute: if monster is defeated before debuff ended, Mark will be applied to another monster will full duration

– Circle 2

  • Heavy Shot - removed

  • Kneeling Shot - Moved to Quarrel Shooter

  • New Skill - Eagle Eye - Increase Critical Rate based on skill level. Also an attribute that increases Critical Damage per attribute level

  • Twin Arrow - Down to C2, chance name to Twin Shot (just for aesthetics, as the C1 attribute that allows it to be used by any weapon, would be weird for a Pistol or a Musket to fire an arrow). New Attribute: 20% chance per attribute level to fire Oblique Shot. Max Lv 3. Requires Oblique Shot 6

  • New Attribute for Hunters Mark - Enemies defeated while under Hunters Mark effect will increase your Physical Damage +20 (max. 300) during 5 seconds per attribute level (max lv 3)

– Circle 3

  • Running Shot - Moved from Quarrel Shooter. Reduced additional damage to +100%. New Enhance Attribute that increase damage by 0.5% per attribute level. Another attribute that increase Evasion per attribute level, reaching actual Swift Step values or higher.

Quarrel Shooter
– Circle 1

  • Deploy Pavise - Improved taunt to prevent monsters to randomly target the QS

  • Stone Picking - Max lv 5, increase amount of stones by 2 per level

– Circle 2

  • Kneeling Shot - moved from Archer with all existing attributes. Remove skills restrictions, allowing for a bigger range (if not all skills) to be used while in Kneeling Shot stance.
  • New Attribute: using Kneeling Shot next to a Pavise will increase +50% damage from regular attack and skills
  • Teardown - allow for any installation to be destroyed (such as Statues, Capella, Necromancer installations, Sapper’s traps…)
  • Teardown New Attribute - increased explosion area and inflict 3s Stun per attribute level.
  • New Pavise Attribute - when a Pavise is destroyed by Teardown, 20% chance of inflict bleeding per attribute level

– Circle 3

  • Rapid Fire - moved up to C3. Remove charging time and increase damage
  • New Rapid Fire Attribute - fire stones from Stone Picking. Chance to stun monsters

Fletcher

  • Increase overall damage
  • Create interactions between skills - If Crossfire find a Magic Arrow, will trigger an explosion. Crossfire will deal higher damage if used after Divine Machine Arrow. Barbed Arrow will always deal 3 hits if Bodkin Point was used in the same monster
  • All skills can be used during Kneeling Shot stance

Mergen

  • Increase overall AoE to cover bigger areas
  • Attribute that increase damage from previous classes’ skills that are more common as Bow users and/or AoE attacks, like Ranger, Fletcher, Wugushi. Such as what Murmillo does with shield based skills

Cannoneer

  • Reduce overall SP consumption

Sapper

  • Reduce Broom Trap overall damage, increase cooldown
  • Increase AoE range of Detonate Traps
  • Decrease Claymore Trap install time
  • New Sentry skill that cover and shoot the surroundings
  • Punji Stakes - decrease install time, already covered, knockback enemies

Hunter

  • Overall concern is pet AI
  • Create Aggressive and Defensive stances for pet. Each stance will trigger some set of Hunter’s skills if you have them in your kit, similar to what Falconer does
  • Change Growling to Roar, making it a fair area Roar that will prevent monsters from attacking you by X seconds

Ranger

  • Steady Aim - exclusive to Bow (like Finestra), better duration, maybe move up to C3
  • Overall damage increase and better AoE ranges
  • New skill that can cover a bigger area

Wugushi

  • Introduce different types of toxins, that could allow paralysis, stun, sleep. Maybe each skill will have a new toxin, or you manage them through the Poison Pot Window
  • Create a more spreading effect skill, similar to Plague Doctor, to better spread poison around mobs. Maybe changing an existing skill or creating a new attribute to when a poisoned monster dies, it will infect surrounding monsters

Scout

  • Attributes for movement speed and increased range of sight/aiming
  • New Skirmish/Flanking skill, that increase damage according to how many party members are aiming that monster
  • Ways to shut down opposing traps/magic circles
  • Resistance/immunity to slow

Musketeer

  • Allow a bigger range of skills to be used with Musket, like some base class skills like Ranger and Archer

Rogue

  • Backstab - Criticals will give 2x or 3x more damage. Chance to cause Massive Bleeding
  • Feint - triggers a 1 hit immune effect (physical or magical)
  • Burrow - ranged skills +50% and melee +100%
  • Vendetta - increased damage acording to how much HP was lost (remaining HP)
  • New skill that can be used with dagger (similar to Corsair’s new skill, maybe?)
2 Likes

If you do not agree I understand, like it or not this is the reality.
People only choose Quarrel Shooter for two Skills, Stone bullet and Runing Shot. (currently stone bullet not so much due dispeller). And the truth is that the other skills are really crap. Unless they redraw all quarrel shooter skills, all players will only take this class for Runing Shot and Stone Bullet. Knowing that it would be hard work to redo all the skills to be efficient and that the probability of this happening is minimum, then put running shot in cycle 1 to extend the combo of rank would be a great idea.

And could you then explain that eliminating Swift Step and reducing damage and increasing the recharge time of the broom trap would help in class improvement?

Probability is not minimal, they did it with Krivis for example. Also linker, pyro, cryo, some swords, went to big changes.

Applying a change as you suggested simply go against the purpose of having circles and different classes, one of the cores of the game. We should give suggestions that could bring the class back to life or having a better execution of what we intended it should be, not cheap access like this.

The effects of swift step were suggested to be address in another way, to spread the effects across the circles.

Reducing damage of broom trap alongside bringing other sapper skills to better usage and damage was an attempt of removing the archer syndrome of 1-skill classes.

true, Swift steps in skill with level 15 gives you 19% move speed + 150 evasion and 175 critical rate in cycle 3 attribute. An essential skill to build a bullet marker Boss stalker Auto Atack that wants to focus on critical attack .
Remove Swift Step are not an option. This skill is a must for any Bullet Marker AA crit focus.

1 Like

Please read the entire post, or at least the entire Archer class section. You are missing information and rushing into conclusions

I understand your point, however, there is something you forgot to consider. ToS, unlike RO does not deliver a complete class by circle and yes, a split class. In order for your intention to work, you would need to work on RO mechanics. Also because in all classes and circles, there are skills that are so good that people only pick up the class in question because of that ability. So, removing a skill like Swift Step, or increasing the recharge time and decreasing the damage of Broom Trap does not seem to me to be an improvement, but rather, NERF. Imagine if we applied his proposition in Linker or, Shinobi and even in Cleric

Linker = Joint Penalty - withdrawal.
Shinobi = Bushin no Jutso = reduced damage and increased recharge time
Cleric = Heal - reduction of healing percentage

Do you understand the point? Nothing to make certain changes, as you proposed, would actually bring IMPROVEMENT to the class, but rather, make certain class circles even less attractive.
My proposal is to tinker with classes that urgently need to be reviewed and make improvements in the others.
Finally, the Archer class really needs to get love from the developers, so we have real diversity, not one or the other like the recent change of the falconers.
Finally, we must understand that IMC can not always listen and interpret what the community needs. See some controversial changes in the wizard class.
Understand that I am giving a counterpoint to your proposition and therefore there is no personal stamp here, okay?
Lastly, this way of forcing you to have 1 to 3 circles of the same class so that you have the total potential released is an error that, yes, needs to be corrected.

1 Like

I agree 100% with everything that has been said here by
cartamagna.

1 Like

Yes, I understand, nothing personal from my side too, we are just arguing our points of view.

I understand your point. But I also think that some of your points may suggest that the way to deal with overpowered skills is increasing the powers of others. As in the archer class may mean this for the most classes, cause lower ranks lack damage in general, also bringing down some skills to an equal level and improving/changing the way others perform/work to match those overpowered skill, plus considering all the other available classes atm, can help solving situations where a class is strongly superior than other that there is no reason to consider a different path. Sapper is clearly a good class, but solely for broom trap, so why even bother creating other skills and develop ranks if you are just forgetting everything else. Pumping up everything, or rather giving focus to only 1 skill, doesn’t seems to be an effective way of balancing classes, neither the path that IMC took so far

Again, you will find swift step effects if you read the full suggestion of the person who share that ideas for Archer class.

Regardless of shinobi, I still defend the nerf it received. I also think that Heal should not do double damage with blessing. But these are other classes, in a way better situation than the ones we are arguing here

Lastly, why having a class system where each class have 3 internal progress, if it’s not to get improvements and full potential through all the circles? Circle 1 should not give the full potential of the class, never was like this and doesn’t seems that will always be, unless developers go crazy and decide to remove circles and internal class progression