Tree of Savior Forum

Archer Revamp Brainstorm

I Love the idea of putting Running Shot at archer c3 and changing QS for a better stationary CC Threat <3

And basically they do not removed the swift step, they changed the name for eagle eye and put a atribute on RS for evasion… I also agreed about sapper, maybe only a cast time on broom trap will be enough. but the others skills will need to be improved in a way that will compensate it.

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Reading more into iRL sappers, I find that they are more than just explody jobs. They are quite literally “combat engineers” that are more support when they aren’t blowing things up. Support? Explosives? IKR? They build stuff that makes other combatants more efficient. Their duties would include (but not limited to):

  • build trenches for safe movement of troops
  • build bridges for otherwise impassable terrain
  • occasional explody duties (arming/disarming)
  • etc

So basically, I find the sapper as the missed opportunity for a support oriented archer (instead of the dps we got). Here is a version of the sapper without the current list of “traps”.

[dig trench]
Shoot an explosive round from your pistol (maybe cannon) at a location to form a hole in the ground. The area prevents damage from outside going inside, while also preventing damage from inside going outside. Basically only those inside the trench can do damage to each other.

  • This is basically some functionality taken from burrow in that you couldn’t be targeted and where immune to some attacks (for example golem, poata, mole, and tree bosses in original siauliai mission could never hit you)
  • This would have to have high OH with moderate cd like teardown with its 4OH and 50s cd
  • An attribute can be added to increase the hole size

[deploy stepping stones]
Deploy a cannon to lay down stone tiles in a fixed direction. Those on top of the tiles can’t be hit by ground targeted skills.

  • An attribute can be made to propel the sapper in the direction of the stone tile like in this old video from ESO. There is already such “directional movement” skills in the game like caracole moving you back and cavalry charge moving you forward.
  • An animation similar to sweeping cannon can be used (this time placed behind the sapper).

[mines]
This would be your standard “place a bomb” type skill. Using the skill on top of any (yours or enemy) another mine disables the deployed mine and “refunds” an OH. You basically “pick up” the disarmed mine.

  • An attribute can be made to make you unable to trigger enemy mines making disarming enemy mines safe
  • We already refund OH at 2x skill cd. Just refund the OH when cast on another mine. The game also already “detects” overlapping installations like how deploy pavise stacks on top of each other.

– will edit for more (maybe 4 more) skills –

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I understand where you want to go. And I must say that I still think that there should be no class circles, but rather evolution of them. For example, any rank class 8 does not necessarily have the strongest skills. But these, have a high consumption of SP in order to dose their use. Single-circle classes like Chaplain, Miko or Shinobi work very well, and if there were more circles they would certainly outweigh the game. Where do I want to go? If single circle, as long as well thought out, leveled and assisted, would work as well. The point is, implicitly, this forces you to devote more time to the game because there is not yet an end game that is appealing to the point of keeping players interested. They predicted this beforehand. Instead of applying a more plausible solution.
And finally, on the archer class, if you are a regular player, there are today 2 very common builds with their variants within the archer class:

Falconer
Archer 2> Sapper 3> Falconer 3> Mergen 1 - for general purposes, Raid, CM and the like.
Archer 2> Quarrel Shooter 3> Falconer 3> Bullet Mrker1 - known for farm.
Archer 2> Hunter 3> Falconer 3> Mergen 1 - Earth tower exclusively.

Musketeer
Archer 3> Quarrel Shooter 3> Musketeer 3

Recalling that there are variations of these, but, in general, the archers of the game have devoted more to making these calss for obvious reasons: Falconer is class sought for general purposes and Musketeer, slayer of chiefs. And I ask: What about the others? It goes of the creativity of each one, but, normally, the classes of greater use in the game hj, are Falconer and its variants and Musketeer also with its variants. So it is not a matter of removing or nerfing skills of a given class, but a reassessment of less used classes and making them so interesting, necessary, and synergistic, when the two I mentioned above. As for the others, if there are improvements, make them.

I agree that giving Sapper more than Broom Trap as support, associating skills and support attributes, would be a great buy for archers. Because, as we were debating before, it is a class that has an ability as a strong and attractive point to consider putting it in the building. What’s more, there is no support within the archer class.

PvP players take QS1 for “Shield Mastery: Missile Defense” and for Stone Shot ofc. But don’t forget this attribute.

All I can do is face palm with the archer changes that DID get in. This is the problem with developers. Content that is paid for with their salaries are more often than not, always going to be used no matter how bad it is JUST BECAUSE it was “already paid for”. They basically doubled down on the ranger with its WTF identity.

On the other hand we have the wugushi rework. They are getting rid of needle blow (a skill that isn’t actually that bad).

I’m very curious how IMC decides which skills get axed and which skills don’t no matter how bad they are.

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these changes in the archer sucks, I hope it’s not 100% … just lazy

Even that IMC is already working on Archer class, our guild mates were having a discussion on what would be good to bring the Archer classes more to the game. Sadly, the whole archer tree is lacking (lower ranks) or deserve some tuning (higher ranks). Here are these ideas (some classes are a lot, some are just small tweaks), we are not setting damage/buff multipliers, just things that we would like to see changing:

Archer

Giving the class some unique features to justify going up 3 circles, also to change Swift Step to give better results through the circles. There is an exchange of skills with Quarrel Shooter, explained more into Quarrel Shooter section

– Circle 1

  • Swift Step - removed (afects are spread around other skills)
  • Multi Shot - slightly increased area
  • Oblique Shot: new attribute - increase number of enemies hitted depending on AoE Attack Ratio and targets AoE Defense Ratio
  • Full Draw - renamed to Full Power (pure aesthetic, cause new attribute propposed will allow it to be used with other weapon types, not only bows), now will grab monsters on the way and stick them together
  • NEW SKILL Hunters Mark - Fire an arrow that mark the enemy, reducing its defenses based on skill level. New Attribute: if the target is killed before the duration ends, the Mark will be passed on to an adjacent enemy and regain full duration
  • New Archer C1 Attribute - All Archer class skills can be used with any projectile weapon regardless of which one it is. This is for some suggestions on how some weapons work for Archer tree in general, like Cannoneer for example (check it later)

– Circle 2

  • Heavy Shot - Removed
  • Kneeling Shot - moved to Quarrel Shooter skill tree
  • NEW SKILL Eagle Eye - Increase Critical Rate based on skill level. New Attribute: Increases Critical Attack too
  • Twin Arrow - Change to C2 skill, renamed do Twin Shot (pure aesthetic, cause suggested new C1 attribute will allow different weapon types to fire it, so a cannon shooting arrows would sound strange). NEW Attribute: 20% chance per level to fire Oblique Shot right after Twin Shot (max level 3, requires Oblique Shot 6)
  • NEW Attribute for Hunters Mark - enemies killed while under Hunters Mark effect will increse your physical attack by 20 (maximum 300). Lasts 5 seconds per attribute level (max level 3)

– Circle 3

  • Running Shot - Moved from Quarrel Shooter. Change to apply less damage modifier. NEW Attribute - Enhancement: increases damage of Running Shot by 0.5% per attribute level. NEW Attribute - Evasion: increases evasion rate per attribute level (reaching same levels of actual Swift Step level 10)
Quarrel Shooter

QS is a class that actually suffer from the “1 skill syndrom”, where such skill doesn’t even fit the class concept, which is defensive/stationary/cc (in our conception). So we propposed an exchange with Archer Class. This would make clear paths on Rank2 with QS as an Auto Attacker/Controller, while Archer goes full damage. As the addition of Pied Piper as Support class for Archer, we think that we could add new options for a full support build in this tree, adding a new defensive skill to fit the support role and a new attribute to make this class a little more offensive and competitive with Ranger.

– Circle 1

  • Pavise - Improved Taunt, monsters will keep on targeting Pavise, even if you hit these monsters
  • Stone Picking - max. level 5, increase 2 stones per level (aware of being removed in lates (ktest patch)

– Circle 2

  • Kneeling Shot - Moved from Archer C2 with all attributes. NEW Attribute: using Kneeling shot next to a Pavise will increase damage in 50%
  • Teardown - increased range of installations that can be destroyed (any diev statue, Pavise, Capella, Sapper traps, Necromancer towers… any clear deployed structure). NEW attribute: installations destroyed will scatter around in a bigger area, stunning enemies by 2 seconds per attribute level (max level 3)
  • NEW Shield Stance - for a few seconds (10 at lv1+2 per level), raise your shield to increase your block rate from attacks coming in front of you. You can only use basic attacks while in this stance.
  • NEW Shield Stance Attribute - allows you to use other skills while using Shield Stance, but you will suffer from Slow.
  • NEW Pavise Attribute - when destroyed, 20% chance per level to cause bleeding (max level 3)

– Circle 3

  • Rapid Fire - moved up from C2 with Enhance attribute also. Improved damage, no charging, regular multihit skill. NEW Attribute: Instead of firing arrows, will fire Stone Shot with learned level, using stones from Stone Picking. Chance to stun.
  • NEW Kneeling Shot Attribute - all skills from Archer and Quarrel Shooter (maybe improve to other higher classes also) can be fired during Kneeling Shot stance
  • NEW Class Attribute - every blocked attack will provide +5 Physical Attack per 10 seconds (with a maximum stack level). Attacks blocked by your Pavise will also add another stack.
Ranger

We are aware of the recent ktest changes (in fact, kinda similar to what we tought, even before the patch was announced). We see Ranger as a class that should be capable of deal with multiple enemies, but it is not doing it properly right now. Also we want to introduce a New skill that is based on D&D, in a way to bring a new mechanic to the game. We see Ranger as an introduction to the “Bow + AoE damage” archetype

– Circle 1

  • Barrage - Improved damage
  • High Anchoring - wider area. New Attribute: monsters would be pushed to the end o skill range and get stunned for 2 seconds
  • Time Bomb Arrow - moved down from C2. Improved explosion range, 3 overheats. Firing a Time Bomb against an enemy that already have a bomb in it will trigger the explosion of both with improved range. NEW Attribute: 1 overheat will be reduced if the monster attached with the bomb die from the explosion
  • NEW SKILL Favorite Enemy - Mark the targeted enemy, giving the Ranger an improved damage against that enemy type (Dark, Beast, Insect, etc.).

– Circle 2

  • Bounce Shot - moved down from C3, improved number of enemies that can hit. NEW Attribute - Slow: 60% chance of slowing down enemies
  • High Anchoring: Critical Chance - attribute moved down from C3. Duration increased from 15 to 20 per attribute level (max level 5)
  • NEW Attribute for Favorite Enemy - The enemy that is marked, when killed, will give you 10% extra damage increase against its type.

– Circle 3

  • Steady Aim - Moved up from C1. Increase damage when using Bow for 5 minutes. NEW Attribute: Swift Quiver - reduce skills cast time by 10% per attribute level (max level 3).
  • Spiral Shot - Changed to be a charging skill. Fire an arrow to the sky, that will create an spiral explosion into the ground when landed that will vary of area and damage based on how much you charged the gauge.NEW Attribute: deal increased damage on stunned enemies. NEW Attribute: causes knockdown when hit the ground.
Hunter

We think that it is OK for PvP, but it lacks on PvE. Change to work around more interaction with the pet. Adding a Rank1 skill that will fit in some farmer classes for Archer Tree. Also, we want to make this class a Damage/CC class for Archer Tree with new mechanics and CCs that works even in boss monsters.

– Circle 1

  • Coursing - Pet will let you mount and dash for some seconds. Evasion improved while mounted, you can Auto Attack and use mounted skills that you have while riding. NEW Attribute: will make pet stay around, returning to you right after a skill is used
  • Pointing - removed
  • Retrieve - moved down from C2, max level 1. Pet will pick up dropped items from the ground. NEW Attribute: 10% chance of find double loot
  • NEW SKILL Headbutt - Pet rush towards enemy and hit, pushing it backwards. NEW Attribute: reduces enemy Accuracy and Evasion
  • NEW Rush Dog Attribute - enemies will have Magical and Physical Defenses reduced

– Circle 2

  • Snatching - moved up from C1. Bring down any flying type monster for 10 seconds. Target will be affected by Bleeding. (work on boss, but only for bleeding). NEW Attribute: 30% chance to work on boss, preventing it from moving or using skills. Reduce duration to 5 seconds.
  • NEW Houding Attribute - Automatically uses snatch when find an invisible enemy.

– Circle 3

  • Growling - removed
  • NEW SKILL Roar - 2 Overheats. Pet will Roar, affecting a large area where enemies will run a few steps back from pet. NEW Attribute: enemies under Roar effect will have less Critical Resistance. NEW Attribute: enemies under Roar effect will be affected by Slow.
  • NEW Hunter C3 Attribute - Friendship - Makes your pet focus on the last skill that you used, using it again right after cooldown ended. (Explaining: if you use Headbutt, pet will use it again on another enemy when the cooldown ends, and if there is another enemy in range for it).
Sapper

Another class that is suffering from the “1 skill syndrome”. The idea is to increase overall damage and utility of other skills, and also make it more CC oriented (why not blue icon? Would be nice).

– Circle 1

  • Stak Stockades - Overheats increased to 3. NEW Attribute: allows to create a wider barricade.
  • Conceal - Moved to C2. Changed to be a Sapper attribute to apply directly when using skill.
  • Claymore - Slightly increase area. Reduce installation time. Reduced cooldown.
  • Punji Stake - set a trap that will fire when enemies step in it. Group monsters together with a net and deal damage with spikes
  • Detonate Traps - Max level 1, change to select a target area. Traps in that area will activate, exploding.

– Circle 2

  • Broom Trap - Slightly increased installation time and reduced damage. NEW Attribute: cause slow in enemies inside trap’s area
  • Collar Bomb - Throws a bomb that will trigger the regular effect if landed on enemy. If not, will act as a mine, exploding when enemy step on it. 2 overheats.

– Circle 3

  • Spike Shooter - removed
  • NEW SKILL Spark Trap - 5 overheats. Using the skill will install a small pole. Installed polles that are close to each other will connect and create a shock line, dealing damage to enemies that cross this line. NEW Attribute: 60% chance to inflict Shock when hit (Shock - during 14 seconds, every 2 seconds will cause damage and 0.5s stun).
Scout

As we said at the Quarrel Shooter section, we think that we could add new options for a full support build in this tree. Scout is in a very bad position right now. These suggestions are a way to bring more personality to the class as a support entry to the Archer Tree. Heavy changes suggestions

– Circle 1

  • Flu Flu - removed (it kinda goes in the way Pied Piper works)
  • Flare Shot - fires a flare that explode when hit, dealing damage and creating a sparkle area (considerable size, something like Aurukuras) where that grants Move Speed +10 to yourself and allies. NEW Attribute: cause burn on enemies hitted. NEW Attribute Hide n Seek: enemies or trap that are hidden will be revealed
  • NEW Cloaking Attribute - non offensive skills will not remove Cloaking
  • NEW Camouflage Attribute - Scout’s skill will charge 2x faster while under Camouflage
  • NEW SKILL Decoy - creates a dummy doll that will taunt monsters around. This doll will have 25 hit points and 15 seconds duration. NEW Attribute: when Dummy Doll is destroyed, it will scatter straw around the area, and slowing down enemies that step on it (can be destroyed by Quarrel Shooter’s Teardown).

– Circle 2

  • Perspective Distortion - changed to be and attribute for Flare Shot, allies attacks that reach Flare Shot area will cause damage to every enemy inside Flare Shot area.
  • NEW SKILL Team Flag - set up a flag that marks the surrounding area for your party members to control. No enemy can set structures, traps nor magic circles around flag’s area.

– Circle 3

  • Scan - removed
  • Split Arrow - 2 overheats, chain effect where every hit will trigger 2 more hits in different enemies, at a total of 16 hits. NEW Attribute: enemies hitted by Split arrow will give 1second cooldown reduction to any ally that hit that enemy (max 5 seconds reduction).
  • NEW SKILL Handcrafting - Allows the scout to craft some items. Each level add a new item to the skill. Level 1 - Shovel, Level 2 - Scanner, Level 3 - Emergencial Repair Kit, Level 4 - Unlocker (open any lvl treasure chest), Level 5 - Blueprint (creates Skill Scrolls of installation skills, like Pavise and Sapper skills for example)
Rogue

We see Rogue as a stealthy assassin that use daggers. We think that more mobility is the way to go, making it more of a sneaky thread

– Circle 1

  • Capture - Change to a charging skill. When fully charged, captures the magic circle to use after, cooldown 1 minute. If not fully charged, Magic circle will be destroyed, cooldown 20 seconds.
  • Vendetta - Now also marks the enemy. If the enemy is killed, STR of party members will increase.
  • NEW Sneak Hit Attribute - Dagger attacks will aways crit when attacking from behind
  • Feint - changed to be an attribute of Tumble. Reduce the enemies Evasion when attacking with a dagger after Tumble.
  • Backstab - Moved down from C2. Change to a buff that will deal actual Backstab damage when you auto attack with your dagger.

– Circle 2

  • NEW Evasion Attribute - Using this skill while invisible will remove the invisibility, but doubles the Evasion bonus
  • NEW Lachrymator attribute - Entering Lachrymator Area will give you invisibility for 5 seconds
  • NEW SKILL Tumble - roll sideways (cooldown 5 seconds). Your next dagger attack will cause slow.

– Circle 3

  • NEW SKILL Throw Dagger - throws your dagger to cause damage. You will have to pick up your dagger after using it
  • NEW Burrow Attribute - If you use Burrow again when your dagger is out (Throw Dagger skill), you will reapear from the dagger position.
Fletcher

The already announced changes seems to bring more damage to the class, what was really in need. We still think that it deserves a little extra of combos for the skill, so you gonna have to mind your rotation a little more. These suggestions already take into consideration last ktest patch.

– Circle 1

  • Broadhead - changed to 3 overheats. NEW Attribute: hitting an enemy under Bodkin Point debuff will double the duration of any Bledding effect.
  • Bodkin Point - Now it is a buff that can trigger the actual effects for each attack that you land with Bow or Crossbow.
  • NEW Barbed Arrow Attribute - enemies affected by Bleeding will receive bonus damage

– Circle 2

  • NEW Magic Arrow Attribute - If Crossfire reach Magic Arrow, it will increase it’s area

– Circle 3

  • Divine Machine Arrow - It will take 10 seconds to do regular explosion, but you can trigger different explosions based on which skill you gonna use during DMA time frame: Broadhead - explodes and cause Burn and Bleed, Barbed Arrow - triggers multiple explosions depending on how many hits Barbed Arrow would deal, Crossfire - triggers 2x more Crossfire damage and area, Magic Arrow - triggers random fire points around the explosion area (like Inquisitor’s flame attribute, but less ticks per second)
Appraiser
  • Overestimate - now will affect offhand weapon type (Pistol, Cannon, Dagger and Shield).
  • NEW Overestimate attribute - will enhance with +1 a two handed weapon (requires Overestimate lv.3)
Schwarzer Reiter

Schwarzer Reiter is a class self sufficient and maybe a few classes can fit in this thematic, making the pistols as a man hand can amplify the coices that you can make with this class like (using a crossbow as offhand or a Shield or even a Dagger or a Sword if you choose Rogue or Hackapell)

  • NEW SR class attribute - Pistols can be used as Main Hand. Crossbow goes to the offhand
Musketeer

Reduce overall SP consumption

Cannoneer

This class weak point is the low mobility. So it does not need another weak point as the high mana consumption. Another point here is that Cannons are too big for using it with just one hand. And finally we need to better reward for those who choose to specialize in this class with 3 ranks.

  • Reduce overall SP Consumption

  • Cannons - now they will be 2 handed weapons. Will need attention to tweak which skills can be used with it from previous classes. Maybe the whole Archer Tree deserves new Icons of which weapon you can use with each skill. Basically, skills that are clearly meant for bow or light/speed weapons are the ones that will be restricted

– Circle 2

  • NEW Bazooka Attribute - If you have Kneeling Shot, using Bazzoka will also applies the effects of the learned level of Kneeling Shot.

– Circle 3

  • NEW Bazooka Attribute - reduces Bazooka setting animation by half.
Hackapell

We never understood why a class that it specialized in off-hand sword receiving a skill for Pistols, so we changed it.

– Circle 1

  • Leg Shot - removed Pistrol restriction, can be fired regularly with XBow and Sword
  • ANOTHER Leg Shot option - remove it and create a new skill Low Cut: Swing your sword from side to side knocking down enemies at your path (similar use as Rush from Cataphract).

– Circle2

  • NEW Attribute Cavalry Charge - Double damage at knocked down enemies.
Mergen

The idea is to address this class as the Bow user, making it the right answer for people who want to use Bow instead of Cannons or other different weapons. These attributes suggested are insipred in Murmillo’s Cassis Crista attribute that buff up Shield skills

– Circle 2

  • NEW Mergen C2 Attribute - Increase Ranger Skills damage by 30% when using Bow
  • NEW Mergen C2 Attribute - Increase Fletcher Skills damage by 30% when using Bow
  • NEW Mergen C3 Attribute - Increase Wugushi Skills damage by 30% when using Bow
Bullet Marker
  • Only aesthetic - creates an animation when using Kneeling Shot while under Double Gun Stance.

Hope you enjoy, it was really fun to discuss these ideas among us. We think the whole Archer Tree really needs a huge change into the basic classes to be more out of the linearity that it is today.

:slight_smile:

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Archer and QS seem great, but others are just normal buff.
Sapper are not engineer so no way they can build sentry :joy:.
No Cloaking cancel is ridiculous in PVP, remove all scouting skills and 2 new skills make them more like crafting class rather than scout. How about a skill which can mark enemies then increase exp and all party 's damage to those enemies after 30-40s. This will make them do the real scouting :laughing:.
Rogue should be assasin, not fighter using dagger. They use xbow as main DPS weapon (archer) and dagger as final blow (rogue). Current backstab is fine and Tumble should be swordman’s skill. C3 definitely need new dagger-skill : a deep dagger stab cause bleeding effect and your dagger can be leave there and opponent will continue bleeding, reuse skill to draw the dagger and deal great damage along with massive bleeding effect for few second, cancel all opponent healing skill. Maybe it will increase poison damage too :sweat_smile:

Hunters should change for sure.

The only real time hunters were ever picked outside of pvp was when Rush dog worked exactly like how pre-emptive strike does. They should bring that back with an attribute or a skill.

Praise shouldn’t be a buff to the pet only. The Idea of hunter is the archer and the animal working together, so praise should buff archer and pet alike and obviously change that buff to something better.

Growling need the falconer treatment to work properly and it should also do aoe damage.

I think the archer tree is fine outside of a few classes. The things that make archer seem weak are more game wide machanics than class specifc stuff. Basically, if fu*cking clerics didn’t have 150k HP with nigh 100% block rate while having attacks that can’t be dodged or blocked, archers would fare much better. Block is the #1 cancer mechanic that needs rework.

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I main, or id like to if it was mainable, rogue so my 2 cents will be on them.

My main problem with rogues is that they have a ■■■■ ton of skills that could be condensed, some skills that should be higher in the ranks and some reeeally useless ones.

Utility wise:

  • Merge evasion with sneak hit BUT obviously bring the percentage down a bit AND up it to C2. Evasion is an amazing skill but its so situational that i often find myself forgetting or using it wrong. Upping it to class 2 solves the “R1 for sneak hit problem” which is not really a problem but i dont think IMC like classes being taken for 1 skill only. For percentages of the crit chance it should stay the same but evasion should be something like 10%+skill lvl. After merging the skill could be called something like “Rogues instinct” or something like that.
  • Capture becomes an one lvl max skill with an attribute that increases capture count but increases CD in return. This is just because rogue already has waaay too many skill to put points into so most people only put few points in this anyway.
  • Feint should work in an arc and with a bigger range, it is ■■■■■■■ annoying to hit this thing in pvp and it shouldnt.New attribute that increases Pierce damage done by 50% on targets affected by feint.
  • Lets be frank here, burrow is just fun, its not good. It has its uses in TBL but usually you wont be using it that much. What id sugest is that make it so that you can walk while burrowed, but it lasts less than the CD, and after you cast burrow your next pierce attack will do extra damage. As usual stealth using utility skills will not break stealth but damage will. For duration CD id say 15 secs duration and 30 secs CD. This would make PVP build not necessarily have to take scout just for the stealth and would combo with the rogue kit. For the buff id say 10% per skill level.

Now Attack wise:

  • Get rid of vendetta. Its a ■■■■ skill. Instead introduce something like Sand throw: The rogue throws sand mixed with acid in an arc doing damage and blinding the targets hit in the front. This would give Rogue 1 an AOE skill, it doesnt have to deal a lot of damage but its at least better than vendetta and it would give a nice close range debuff for TBL. There could be an attribute that switches the blind with a slow for come options.

  • Backstab. The reason i LOVE rogues! This is fine but i believe its damage should be boosted to make it possible to create a build revolving around this skill, so that why i suggested the +50% damage boost in feint affected targets and the burrow damage buff AND id suggest an 100% buff on sleeping targets to combo with Pied Piper. This would be nice because an sleeping target will wake up when hit by backstab and it will combo with wizards also. These changes would make Backstab an insane burst while also being balanced after the first hit. Oh and someone mentioned an attribute that would make backstab unblockable if hit from the back, this would be nice as well.

  • NEW SKILL C3: Coup de grâce: The rogue throws the dagger at the target dealing more damage the less health the target has. The rogue must pick up the dagger again to use backstab and coup de grâce. This would be the finishing skill that rogues need! With this skill rogues would be able to hold their own in TBL and it would open way to many interesting builds. This would work a bit like Dagger Finish from Retiarius but with the downside of not having the buff from rete and the rogue needing to pick up the dagger again. I trully believe these changes would make rogue what it should be: A PVP oriented class with high risk by being melee but high reward by dealing tons of damage!

I am fullly aware these things will never happen but hey, isnt this the purpose of this thread? XD
Tell me what you guys think!

Claymore Atribute C3: make the explosion be around the trap as well as adding 5 more targets