Tree of Savior Forum

Alchemists community

Class and Rank Wizard
#81

Guys, two things here:

First, i’m on boat of the idea, however we do need to calculate the future acceptable price formula of each potion quality etc. So our variables is probably the cost of materials (which should change as time goes on?), and the level of pots being sold (assuming there are difference in quality of different levels of tincturing mastery, idk, not alch yet).
I believe such math we can work together after we have everyone in a chatroom

Second, That discord link on the very top, it seems to be not working or something? Unless the discord server is fused with tosbase disord chat, which is i’m sure not.

#82

New link, now must be unexpiring :smiley:

#83

Hey guys, sorry to intrude your thread, I was wondering did any of you ever experienced with the npc disappearing? Support didn’t help much, and my thread comes up nothing too. When I job advance, my npc will flicker, and I have trouble clicking him. I have to spam it to talk to him. After I changed job, he’s no longer there. Did all my quest, can’t find him.

#84

i see everyone as an alchemist setting prices at 10k which i think is totally pointless so i set mine to 12250 so i can atleast make almost 5000 profit so i wanted to put that out there for the other alchemists we should at the very least go from 12k-15k at minimum instead of out pricing each other. i see the same thing for potions some jerk set level 10 condensed sp potions to 1.5k im like get real i was selling level five for 1.6. so i refuse to go under 2k with level 10 potions.i didnt dedicate 2 class ranks to alchemist to make little profit.

#85

12250-50%=6125s
6125s-3000(calcite)=3125s
u got 10 roasts per night? 3125x10=31250 of profit
31k PER NIGHT KARL

#86

its not amazing but its better then 10k per roast

#87

I agree that 30k per roast is necessary, I mean working your way to Alch2 is something, we can’t kill boss as easier as other classes, so we need to do something that actually does good for our class.

I’m starting to see Gem Roast go up, even if some people are cutting it. I’ll join in and do 30k a roast, and when Alch3 comes, I’ll jump it up to 200k. If you want to monopolize you are gonna have to earn it =P

#88

Sad, but even succeslful experiment doesn’t teach people.
I’m just accepted for myself that 80% of them are dumb, and they can’t see any other business models except dumping.
Even if every alchemist will leave the game except one of those dumbs, he will start to make price lower then his own, thinking he will get more money.
I’m placing sometimes 6k just for fun to get rid of that 7-8-9k rosters. And don’t expect any profit from this skill.

#89

I am an avid market trader, and have played since game launch.

To provide you some suggestions and thought on this matter, and that is 30k per roast is cheap compared to the time leveling your alch to lv225 rank 2.

A typical Lv225 player will have a net worth of (all assets, including equipment) at least 8mil, and that is a conservative figure. Assuming that the typical player will play the game for on average gamelife of 2months or 60 days, and that you used at least 30days of that time leveling your alchemist to 225. Then, you would need to spread the alchemist cost to 30days to cover the time lost in leveling your main.

Also, my assumption is that an alchemist is not your main.

In number crunching it would come out to be 8mil / 30 days will equate to a required min profit of 270k silver per day.

Back tracking through your standards of 10 roast per day, calcite cost, and 50% tax. The cost per roast will come out to be as 48k minimum cost per roast to even break even.

Now, assuming you do not play everyday as most of us are working adults, or made your alchemist the main (you would be losing out on game content). Having a shop with less than 48k roast cost everyday is a waste of time. As such you would need to supplement earning potential with potions(but there dirt cheap, so thats not plausible xD).

For those out here saying that you get free profit from AFK, idiots! crunch the figures first then tell that to me again. Re-doing calculations with AFK in mind would still spread out the 8mil initial cost to not 30 days but rather at most 45days. Re-doing the calculation again and you would have a min roast cost of 30k. Coincidentally enough, the same min costs you have suggested. However at this cost leveling an alchemist would gain no benefit aside from convenience. A convenience that is not needed when you have several alchemist friends.

And having a shop less than 30k is ludicrous, as profit decreases exponentially due to how profit calculation works.

'- Derkein Dragonfang [Klapedia]

PS: Feel free to pm me if you need potions xD. I need every silver of it due to wasting time on alchemist Y.Y

#90

Interesting, i actually made calculations on my own. And one realization came out, that potion to dilgele ratio is only minutely(small) affected by dilgele/uosis pricing. I’ll join the discord link, if the link is still working?? Also when I get home. :slight_smile:

#91

The one who sell cheapest is bot, so this thread is useless. You guys can decide any price do you want, but bot char will sell lesser and lesser.

Solution.
Ban all bot, u will have good demand and profit.

#92

Sorry, it seems you are angry? Please be informed that the discussion so far is based on actual facts. We as logical beings will just do the most efficient route, although we will rant about it on the way xD.

Now, the pricing decision is simple. It is currently unprofitable. Hence, we (me included) will stop vending (waste of time), and will just utilize other classes.

The alchemist class fails in its premise as a profit-silver producer. Consequently, less people will make and use alchemist. If the bots take over, then its fine, cheap alchemy services for all. If not, then you can only use alchemy services if you have one, or you know who does. Thereby, paying the appropriate fee.

In either case, a solution will converge. :slight_smile:

#93

Just a small status report of how things are progressing in a “new” server.

Varena was released on 10th of may
The first lv5 hp/sp pots appeared in market on the 17th of may, at the price of 1500s
As of this post’s writing, aka may 19th, lv5 hp/sp pots with the price of 1000s have started to appear.

http://i.imgur.com/qj8ff6X.jpg
This is the price of pots in kTOS on march 18th
These prices, are what considered as “not profitable” by the community.
Please note that there are only eight of each pots, in which we are able to assume there are only up to sixteen alchemists that are available to make level 10 pots in kTOS, which is the game’s main server.

Sixteen of a class within a game’s main server.

What the “economy-based” classes need is basically a minimum wage.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_wage

Please remember that they wield other skills than making potions.

  1. Briquetting may seem little now, but 12% atk instead of flat numbers means it scales forever with whatever update that will ever come.
  2. Awakening is botched at the moment, but ToS is a growing game, there is no guarantee that it will not become important in the future.
  3. Gem roasting is needed by everyone going for their endgame gears in order to mitigate negative effects of the gem socketing itself.
  4. Magnum opus is hailed to be able to create items that are otherwise impossible to drop, god knows what kind of potential is it capable of once C3 alchemist comes

If everyone sticks to the prices-go-down trend, who knows how many actual alchemists are out there in the future?
Or does everyone prefer to make their own alchemist and do their own alchemist services for themselves?
Grind yourself until lv 280?
Or would you rather pay a “fair price” that everyone agrees to?

They needed a “reason” to use their time, to play a class that will never do well in actual game content.
That does not apply to only alchemists.
Pardoners are removing their endgame support power for little money.
Squires suffer even worse, in my humble opinion.

Please help save our public service classes before they go extinct, by making an agreeable price formula for their services.

#94

Pardoners at least have got some useful skills beside the crafting ones. Arrest isn’t bad either, and repairing on the fly is still an useful ability when you’re away from a city.
Alchemists don’t offer anything worthwhile at all outside of the crafting skills. That’s the problem. Why should one bother levelling an alchemist over its third rank, once they’ll be available? You’ve essentially wasted important ranks to make an alchemist, but combat-wise, there is nothing to show for it.
Right now, an alchemist character has no future.

And while they could force a progression via some hidden class that has alchemist as a requirement, it still wouldn’t made those ranks well-spent.

#95

Just as the person above me have stated clearly, alchemists are just that bad.

However, let’s say they go extinct.

I have no idea yet how things go on the “endgame” since i’m not there yet, thus could someone explain to everyone else (just so everyone is on the same page), what would things look if alchemists didn’t exist at all?

So i suppose that would be the removal of alch hp/sp pots, and gem roasting mainly?
I’d like to know how important is an alchemist’s “support” to the gameplay in the “endgame” content.

#96

This is what I’ve been using. And may give everyone a better idea. Although current potion prices at server [Klaipeda] have already dropped from recommended prices.

To give you guys an idea, an alchemist is required to sell at least 13200 potions at recommended price to break-even or 33000 potions at current prices ( 500silver ea) including market tax. Now, imagine that for 200+ alchemist… The playerbase simply isn’t that high to accomodate for the large volume of potions.

@pandhu_dharmawata I don’t think alchemist will disappear completely. Although most of our alchemist friends made their char due to how potions sell. As such, in future(few weeks from now). The ratio of alchemist to other character will simply decrease. Most likely will stabalize at a ratio of 1 alchemist to 180 players, as my assumption. At that point, alchemist would be free to price competitively for their services due to demand. =)

#97

Also, when HP potion prices reach 300 silver ea. Even my character, an alchemist will just buy it off market. =)

Cheap pots for everyone ^^.

#98

Imho, it isn’t like alchemists will disappear…but there won’t be any reason to level one further than the third rank.
Right now, alchemists can only be a secondary character. As a main char, they make no sense. Even if their third rank brought something useful in a fighting context…it would be too little, and too late. You spend many important late ranks to do it, after all.
I’m not saying that they must have some ludicrous ability, but they should have their own niche. They aren’t made to compete for dps - other wizard classes in the same ranks do it better, and are chosen instead - but give them something they can do, at least. I suggested throwing potions because it added on the support role alchemists usually are based upon, with an explosive one to at least give some additional dps, but it could be anything (as long as it is thematically appropriate).

#99

I’m not sure if you are reading that chart properly.

The recommended market sell prices are 4 times the production costs. Selling a single potion at those rates, would already break even. Selling 10k potions at those rates, to use HP Pot as an example, would give a profit of 6.5m+ (tax included)

Due to competion it’s unlikely that such a high volume will be sold easily, but regardless as long as they sell at all, it’s a profit.

#100

Hello, and welcome.

Now, to re-explain my definition of break-even involves the lost time of making and leveling up your alchemist to circle2.

But it seems your definition of break-even doesn’t take that into account. And as such, you are correct.

Hope that answers your question.