Tree of Savior Forum

About Highlander C3

That seems like a nice build man. Let’s keep in touch, i want to see the results of that one. I’m curious to see the damage output of the build you mentioned, i really did consider that path along the way somewhere. I’m still leveling my toon though, currently high 1, so if i ever change my plans there’s still time to reconsider.

I’m saving the event skill potion to reset at fencer c3 after having a look at the new skills, i will just play with what i have for now so i can create a decent skill rotation / burst and practice flaco and some other stuffs while pvping.

PS: Thanks for you input man, that was a nice detailed reply ^^

I’ve got the same build. I’ll stick with it though. You never know they might buff Barb and Dust Devil even more. Corsair’s Jolly Roger is a gift that keeps on giving as well. I’m making h3-doppel though, between the grind parties though.

I really hope they don’t give further buffs to Barb though xD. I think the current ones are already a nice touch to the class, considering it’s a rank 3~5 choice. Future holds too much potential already with doppel c3, and other possible synergies yet to come.

I’m looking forward for some more Highlander love though, i think it can receive some little tweaks here and there xD.

i must say that highlander3 was also my first choice as well, but once i got to see the number close, you can also check it, the main damage from highlander skills comes from the our characters atk than the tooltip, for example:
skyliner 10=450
skyliner 5= 160
both of them have a 400% multiplier with bleeding target, now if we apply the cleave debuff it would go for 600% x 400% so even with skullswing in the mix, it will not overcome those 200% extras from the use of cleave, and this is why i choose to replace highlander3 with barb1, and like i said this is for the DAMAGE.
but since you are still at highlander1 i would say to let it rest for a little, once you go highlander2 you will notice the difference with crosscut and skyliner, you will see that with bleeding, skyliner for example it already hit’s really hard with a good weapon, up to 3k at lvl 45 and once you notice this you will see that the bonus from 50% will also add more damage than skull swing and those skills point can ever do, like i said at first as going for highlander3 but once i got to see the numbers on highlander2 , the build changed.
and since you want PVP corsair 1 is a must have right now, because of the HOOK.
but another option for PVE build would be of course highlander3 barb1 but with this we would lose corsair, so i do not think is worth .

0 PATK:
Skyliner 5: 289x2=578
Skyliner 5 + Cleave buff: 289x2x1.5=867
Skyliner 10: 450x2=900

800 PATK:
Skyliner 5: (800+289)x2=2178
Skyliner 5 + Cleave buff: (800+289)x2x1.5=3267
Skyliner 10: (800+450)x2=2500

+100% Bleeding Buff:
Skyliner 5: (800+289)x2x2=4356
Skyliner 5 + Cleave buff: (800+289)x2x1.5x2=6534
Skyliner 10: (800+450)x2x2=5000

Now, considering that Dullahan has 506 DEF:
Skyliner 5 + Cleave buff: {[(800+289)x2]-506}x1.5x2=5016
Skyliner 10 + Skull Swing: 5000

Comment after Edit2: Wow, it seems that Skull Swing kicked Cleave’s butt!

But (I went with this build you guys are planning, but with High3) as I pondered in my mind, I found that giving the Defense Reduction buff to a whole Party would be better than having the 50% to myself (in a diverse party, where only myself would do slash damage) and that this buff would be most useful forever, while as I chose Fencer (and possibly Matador in Rank9, who knows), Pierce skills would become much more present and overwhelmingly take the spot from those of the Highlander.

But still, this is a real hard stuff.

Edit1: Fixed Bleeding Calculation.

Edit2: Fixed Defense Reduction Calculation.

Edit3: Fixed Bleeding again

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Yeah, that’s one of the things i ponder with myself frequently: A def reduction debuff party wide, or a bonus damage that will help me in solo times ( and sometimes when there’s another sw in party since 5th slots could always be anything) ? I’m already waiting for rank 8 on my dragoon to update it to drag c2 which will have the buff which i consider the most powerful for party: serpentine debuff which will give me ( and every other physical attacker) 100% bonus damage. So, in that perspective, at least to me, the Dragoon will be the real deal when talking about party buffs (that and the Gae Bulg zones).

This makes me consider the above mentioned path with high 2 barb corsair, as i want pretty much DPS in my fencer while i can play a high end dps/ debuffer with my dragoon c2 somewhere in the future.

i have yet to see a cleric that outdps me out of the ghost types with my dopple, i too have friends, we are 280 since a lot of time, we too have killed big bosses (helga, marnox, rexipher etc), i have a fencer 280 too, plus friends 280 with the classic wolrd bosses hunting builds (fletcher, elememewarlock, cryochrono) and the “infamues” diev3druid2 aka cleric dps, in pvp cata is the best sowrdsman followed by rodelero tank, catagoon is by no means bad at pvp, (without pd prepare to be obliterated) ofcourse its going to loose against some broken clasees like kabbalist, if they were really that bad then why in korea they do well and have managed to be in the top 10, the same is happening here, ofcourse they aren’t the best pvp char soo far, and i will state this again, fencer SUCK AT PVP, piss poor aoe ratio, long animations, lack of good cc, your only options is landing a hook from CORSAIR that if you go c2 will do much better than a fencer, this may change with rank3 but right now fencer are in a bad spot, to the person that was saying that highlander3 was bad, rexipher has over 700 pdef, skull swings help alot specially with heavy critting builds, vertical slash was changed and at least in kr is really good, if you want to get the most slash dmg then is not optional picking high3barb1 is mandatory, and if you’re going to pvp without picking rodelero or cata then sw3somethingcorsair is optimal not only because of restrain, is for the freaking pain barrier.
PD: in a dps race nothing beat a archer2ranger2fletcher3, not even warlock with all their crap out or a cryokinocaster, soo you see me telling people that they should stop making wizards and make archer instead?, nope (everyone has his own position and swordsman too work well boosting dmg, specially for fletcher (crossguard+skullswing or spear lunge will melt anything)

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I mean, i think that everyone that creates a SW is completely aware of where we sit in right now. We’re not top dps, we can manage aggro efficiently but many other classes with full-retarded-con build can take damage, we lack pvp capacity ( rank 8 will change this significantly) and many other things.

PVP barely reached our servers, and the kTOS playerbase differs vastly from ours. Many are still discovering their classes, counting synergies and training/testing builds in PvP. Aside from some stand out builds, no class “SUCKS at PVP”, since we play PvP with a partner, or in a team of 5, team play is a huge factor in PvP and sometimes the thing that will determine whether your win or not. When i was lvl 201 with my hop3-doppel me and my partner managed to kill a diev3 oracle and a monk3 whose levels were above 250 just by using strategy.

Fencer will get something that will help it in PvP at rank 8 and rank 9 may reserve many things for SW. We sure can play a very fine PvE and have a decent ( not optmal) PvP experience.

I didn’t get it.
You mean hiting some one with a low damage and that low damage get more lowered with defence is better than do a good damage in a 0 defence target? Lol.

He said that hitting an enemy with cleave + slash attack is stronger than hitting an enemy with slash attack + skull, since skull swing reduces enemy defense to 0 ( which means flat additional damage to you), while cleave gives a 50% bosst on your actual slash damage. I wish there was more fencer showing off a little grind after lvls 240 and less fencer showing off combos in bosses lol.

I’m pretty sure it’s +100% and is applied before the the defence reduction (T0 multiplier) . unless you’re also talking about skyliner also being a multihit skill (which @Palazzo includes on top of that).

The 50% slash is good but go against what that guy is dreaming.
Better show with some pics:
Skyliner:


Cross cut+Skyliner:

Cross cut+Cleave+Skyliner:

Cleave+Skyliner:

As you can see cross cut+cleave+skyliner(lv10) is doing around 800 more dmg. With skyliner lv5 the damage will be around 510 more(less) dmg. 510 dmg in a pvp scenario where 85% people use plate set and surely has about 400 def, you will do a mediocre 110 dmg over a highlander 3 with combo skull swing+cross cut+skyliner.

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Yeah, i can see where you’re coming from. I don’t actually agree with him, i will probably stick with my high3 corsair build nevertheless. In a PvP scenario i’m certain skull swing would provide better mechanics than a 50% slash debuff provided by cleave. As i mentioned earlier, my fear was rotation, but i can see how to workout with this now.

Btw, thanks for the pics. Hard to see a freaking comparison between sets of skills.

People will be scared withou jumping all time with skull swing hehe

Bro, I’m on the High3 team, I have a High3 and I prefer Skull Swing to Cleave.

Now, about the calculations: I didn’t know how much % the Bleeding buff gave to Skyliner, and was just following what the guy above mentioned, but it seems that he lumped everything together already, right?. I’ll fix my earlier post.

Edit: My post above has been fixed, and I prefer Skull Swing even more now.

And then murmillo :kissing_closed_eyes:

What Barb sadly lacks despite its description, is to punish with impunity. That being said, all Barbarian attacks should come with status effects. And their skills such as war cry and frenzy should grant buffs that allow them to close in on their opponents faster.

Highlander would serve as your basic two hander that will duke it out on spot

Barbarian would be your reckless two hander

Doppelsoldner would be a punishing two hander

If you were to compare the 3 against each other, Highlander would be the defensive, Doppelsoldner offensive, Barbarian in between, but they would be considered better in terms of mobility

skyliner have 2 hits with each hit doing 100% plus tooltip damage, with bleed it will become 200% plus tooltipdamagex2 in each hit, so the math is simple 2 hits x 200%+2x tooltip damage=400% of your P.ATK+tooltipdamage 4x, at later game the swordsman does not consider many of the TOOLTIP damage on the skill when they are doing simple math like the ones i’m doing here since it will just make the text even bigger and of course since the equips damage surpass by far the ones in the tooltip of multi hit skills, of course again i’m not doing a complete math here i’m just showing the grow of the skill.
by the end of it, the BLEED really add a 100% extra damage to the total contribution of the skill , but what i’m calling here is not the % of the total damage of the skill skyliner and is the % scaling i’m talking is from your P.Atk.

dude, it seems that you have not understand me, but i can not blame you since you test it seems that you you are still at lvl 17x, what i’m talking about is at END GAME lvl 250+ where a grow of the tooltip alone would not be the big factor in the damage from those skills.
to make it simple: the best monster right now at 280 , have 800 defense at max, so skull swing would work like it would give for example 800 damage , where once you go up to 280 where EQUIPS gives far more damage than the tooltip on the skill , cleave will have a better grown that the skull swing.
you have a swordsman at 280? with a good combo can go up to 4-6k each hit? for example my fencer with sept without prep i can go up to 6k with prep i can hit up 12k-13k critical, of course talking about a perfect combo with mobs weak to the atk and so on.
the same as my seism, i can hit up 10-11kk without the cleave debuff with each overheat, with cleave i can go up to 15k+. i know that this is not highlander but like i said my only main that i can compare with cleave debuff is the barb, but the math keep going.
to make it simple i said that with end game the 50% cleave will surpass by far the bonus from skull swing in damage , and this is true, a good example is doppel2 that is another character that we have proof, the dude on the doppel2 dps topic have done a 25k with his cleave before the 50% slash bonus buff come out, so you are saying that in the LONG RUN the skull swing will do more damage once he can only make the def goes 0 and the strongest monster with def right now have more or less 800 defense, than someone who have hit 25k without buff? that would make with buff a bonus of 10k+ damage?
.
so i’m sorry to say that the difference is a lot large than the one you are talking about and showing in your test , by a lot more, but hey you do need to believe me , just check the videos from end game doppel or highlander and check the damage from their skill and keep in mind that the best defense right now is close to 800.
and AGAIN i have said in my topic that in PVP scenario the highlander3 would be a better option since it would be hard to keep doing cleave every time so i do know why you are finishing you test talking about PVP, since i have said and we both have agree that in PVP highlander3 would be better than the highlander2 barb.
so again i do not understand the critics in your post since
first: you do not seem to understand that i’m talking in the end game where the main damage would come from weapons and equips and not from he tooltip on the skill alone, so you will see a better difference than the one with a lvl 176 character for example, after all everyone nows that flat bonus (reduction def from skull swing) is better at early game than scaling bonus % (the debuff from cleave)
second: both of us have agree that in PVP scenario the highlander3 is a better option, and the test you have made to proof it is in reality not valid for the discussion as well.

tl:dr for he ones who does not want to read everything, if you are going to focus more on PVP highlander3 will do a better job than highlander2-barb, simple as that, but highlander2-barb will also do a better damage on the end game on PVE, than highlander3.

In pve content is pretty retarded some one take hl2>barb1 over highlander3>barb1.

it seems you can not really understand that by the limit of ranks and the build that the guy have asked , it is impossible to have highlander3-barb1

if you think so, please go head, and keep thinking that, but please do not say this to others because you are wrong. if you are doing a char who focus in slash damage in today game , not taking barb1 for cleave debuff is suicide and again the talk is highalnder3 x highlander2 barb1, not highlander3 barb1 (4 ranks <<)
the discussion here is with the option of “ONLY” allowing 3 ranks to choose .