I was pointing out the flaws of Crosscut 1200% scaling, not other skills. Crosscut bleed ticks have 0 base damage. Saying "Crosscut “1200%” scaling does not give the full picture.
Cool but your quote is in reference to someone saying [quote=“SoDed, post:37, topic:319354”]
like Skyliner go upto 800%, Moulinet 1000%, Helm Chopper 800%
[/quote]
so these are not counting totals with overheats.
Also i’m fairly sure seism is 250% and not 170%. If it’s 170% then barb is even more garbage than I can believe.
Whether crosscut bleeds have base damage or not is totally irrelevant to anything.
noob question: where do you guys getting those high percentage skill scaling? those 200% 600% 1200% skill damage.
Crosscut enhanced 1400% + 2580
Helm Chopper enhanced 400% + 5780
Does Crosscut do more damage then Helm Chopper?
Yes (but with a longer cooldown).
Does Crosscut do 6x the damage of Helm Chopper (implied by your “1200%” scaling)?
No, not even with 3000 physical attack.
Does anyone here have the INT/SPR reduction formula for Crown or it’s just the attribute?
If they want buff 2hd sword like this
i’m pretty sure they will put this attribute on barbarian
LOL
But hey HL got 50% crit attack already on 2hd sword
now i believe that a attribute who can increase the damage up to 20%(large and 10% for bosses) like the one dragoon have is simple too very strong for a class who is rank 3-4-5 but i can see this happening because in the long run barb offer a lot less than highlander he needs at least one more type of skill for damage but since they can not simple create one of to nowhere without making all the community hate it because they have not take barb i can see that happening but the BIG question is:, it will be at barb1 or barb3, for me i believe that is barb3, because with barb1 it only make the build with highlander3barb1 even better.
on a second note a attribute with damage may be too good for barb, i believe that one who increases critical rate on % would be best to have, but this would also piss off a big group of the community who is not barb, because swordsman lack a buff like that and we are asking for it since day0 and if they give it for barb3 only , would make a lot of people hate it ,mainly the ones who is fencer without barb because fencers normally focus on dex and would be a huge loss for them and mostly people on this post as well, since it is a post about highlander3 haha.
well it does matter what they do for barb i bet that most players will hate it ,because they do not have barb.
Crosscut with maxed enhance is 1200% scaling, not 1400%.
It becomes stronger than helm chopper at only 400 ATK. This is achieveable by low level swordsmen without weapons equipped.
The downtime is only 18 seconds (you wouldn’t overwrite the bleed anyway), and helm chopper’s cooldown is 20 seconds.
Just because you are for some reason incapable of comprehending attack scaling doesn’t mean anyone else is.
Yes, we all know that Crosscut does more damage than most other skills.
My point was that under normal circumstances, it does not do X times more damage than other skills, which you’ve implied by saying “1200%” scaling, if you account for attributes and base damage.
E.g. I can guarantee you that Crosscut will not do over 2x more damage than Moulinet (1200% / 500%, from your stated percentages).
Also, in regards to Crosscut downtime, 18 seconds is misleading. If you use re-cast crosscut with overheat, the cooldown resets.
E.g. If you dont want to overwrite bleed:
Crosscut, wait 10 secs, Crosscut 2nd time, cooldown of 28 seconds starts.
Total rotation cycle is 38 seconds.
I implied no such thing. I said 1200% scaling because it literally is 1200% attack scaling. No more and no less.
Why would you waste your bleed by overwriting it? When you use the second overheat the bleed persists 10 seconds into the cooldown bringing the downtime to 18 seconds. I said the downtime is 18 seconds because the downtime literally is 18 seconds.
If you would like me to state numbers incorrectly to not offend you or trigger your insecurities then you’re free to say if that’s case.
Yes, and if you account for attributes, then Crosscut has 1400% scaling, while e.g. Moulinet has 1000% scaling. No more and no less. This is your flaw, you don’t account for attributes.
How do you not understand that to do your crosscut rotation without overwriting the bleed debuff, it takes 38 seconds total between each rotation? Thats longer than all Barb skills, except for Pouncing.
No. Crosscut 10’s baseline is 2 hits of 100% attack + 645 damage and 10 ticks of 80% atk bleed + elemental damage. This is 200 + 800 for a total of 1000% (1200% with enhance).
Do you overwrite your cleave slash debuff as quickly as you can? No, it’s obvious and it’s a given that you wouldn’t.
Do we say that cleave has a “rotation time” of 26 seconds? No. We say that cleave has a downtime of 11 seconds and we do our best to have our slash skills on cooldown during those 11 seconds so we’re not losing out on any damage, just as we do with crosscut. It is thus productive and useful to make reference to downtime rather than “seconds total between each rotation” as though a single skill by itself in a vaccum is a rotation (which is a laughable prospect)
Apparently, you don’t understand the concept of DPS.
Crosscut can do 2000% scaling damage every 38 seconds, it is that simple.
Hence, using crosscut will give you 52.6% scaling damage per sec.
This is a metric that can be used to compare other damage skills. How is a reference to DPS not productive and useful?
“Downtime” as a reference is not as productive because you can’t use it to compare to other damage skills.
Anyways, I’m done here. My original intention was to list the drawbacks of Crosscut, because you used its “1000%” scaling as key factor to say that HL is better than Barb. Highlander IS better than Barb, but not because of Crosscut.
My points were:
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Crosscut bleed is not enhanced by attributes
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Crosscut’s amazing scaling is from bleed - a dot. This has drawbacks such as bleed immunity from monsters, bleed debuffs not stacking on the same monster (e.g. 2 HLs in party), and a non stackable dot + overheat system increases the total cycle duration, and in return, lowers the potential DPS of the skill.
If you still don’t understand what I’ve been trying to say from these 2 points, then no amount of explaining will make you understand. I’m done with this discussion.
There are no other damage-over-time skills in the swordsman tree to make a meaningful comparison in the first place which makes your whole nitpick moronic since you tried to create a stupid comparison between crosscut (dot) and helm chopper (direct damage). Notice that my comparison between Skyliner and Seism was between two direct damage slash skills and execution times and cooldown differences were noted. This is a meaningful and productive comparison.
Then why did you bitch in the first place?
I listed it as 1000% attack scaling because it literally scales 1000% of your attack whether you like it or not. End of discussion and thanks for contributing nothing at all.
To everyone else still wanting to know if Highlander is better or if Barb is better - the answer is it depends.
Don’t listen to anyone that tells you that Highlander is superior to Barb purely based on percentage scaling numbers.
There are a lot of situations in which Barb will be better than Highlander.
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that’s true, but the sadly true is that with the arrival of the rank8 most of barb skill will be situational and mostly for the cc and not the dmg, in the other hand you have highlander skills that keep on scaling and with the new vertical slash they will do it, soo depends on the build, but atm at 1 specific target highlander will obliterate barbs, but with a crow barb can and will destroy highlanders.
Unfortunately, it doesn’t. Highlander outperforms barbarian even against bleed immune enemies(which don’t actually exist- it’s complicated).
Barbarian is even useless when it comes to AoE in my experience just due to the fact their skills are so much weaker so hitting more enemies at the same time doesn’t help there.
Here is a suggestion : rather than endlessly debating which one is better by discussing single skills and opinions, why not create a table/exel sheet and list every skill with its atk/%atk, a damage/sec and a total atk/sec (all skills combined), for both barb3 and high3?
That way they’re way more comparable.
Barbarian build is better when going doppel since cleve boosts slash attacks and almost all of doppel’s skill is slash. It is trash when you combine it with corsair or fencer though
Highlander works decent when going doppel but inferior to barbarian when going doppel path. They are quite better when going fencer though if only they implement the auto switching the archers have to swordsman then they can abuse crossguard combo with fencer. Highlander to corsair is so so on pvp and crossguard+ hexen is also good on pve.
In other words looks like only doppel will benefit greatly from barbarian and as for highlander its somewhat decent to other builds but not superior compared to the other circles of swordsman. Just a so so but works somehow kind of class.
dude, highlander3>barb1>doppel is the best build if u want pve. when u hit high level barb skils are useles for dmg and only work as stuns, while highlander skills are always great cus they scale much better…