you did a lot of research, but a lot of baddies will point out that this isnt right… but i think they will be using flawed logic because they dont know how each skill they use scales… some with str. some with dex… some with int, some with sp, some with con… what is hidden isnt hidden, but its hidden to those with no eyes.
I believe the big issue here is that people aren’t thinking in terms of endgame. They keep thinking of where they are now.
I created this for endgame 
I know this is mostly pve stuff. But a little while ago i was calculating pvp crit rate, and it wasnt pretty for dex build. Since evem wiz have like 189 crit resist at minimum with high con in pvp, making crit rate very hard to achieve without being an archer. So str is even better. Especially when every char need high con, which u cant dedicate to super high dex to overcome crit resist.
Yeah. In PVP getting crit rate would not be a smart thing to do since getting crit resist is just as easy, if not, easier, and you lose too much damage to get high crit anyways.
The only way I can see crit rate being good in PVP is that you can somehow get ~100% crit rate consistantly, and even that is almost impossible in PVE. (I’m looking at you level 10 gems that cost hundreds of millions of silver.)
Everybody forgets that the game will aim for 600 level and its unknown how much defense, crit resist will mobs have and how much gear/skills will give crit rate. Also the higher your level the less % crit rate give each crit rate point.
High Str with around 267 crit rate is about good to go for melee I think which I’m going that way
(crit-crit res)*42/level. with 100 crit res (high level monsters) with 267 dex u get only 25% crit.
What I’m saying is that you will have atleast ~260 crit rate with the small portion of items i included. I did not factor in the other possible things that you would use for crit rate like DEX, hat stats, buffs, skill modifiers, class modifiers, etc.
Im interesting in know if on lvl 280 i go FULL stats in DEX + Try find evasion bonus on gear/hat costumes it will work? and evade most atacks like 90% or is usseles??
Someone actually pm’d me about evasion and I did work on it.
A FULL DEX build will give 671 evasion.
Most bosses at level 285 have 285 accuracy, some have higher and two have 451.
Now i’ve been looking around for an evasion formula and I eventually found one
Evasion - Accuracy
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
(0.3605(your level) + 18.64) * Monster level ^0.335
With a max of 80~85% evasion
https://github.com/vyne1/tos-mechanics/blob/master/ToS%20Mechanics.pdf
In that case, a FULL DEX build will give roughly 50% evasion on an average lvl 285 boss, and 27% on the two bosses with 451 evasion
Factoring in gear. I will be using Lolopanther leather armor + necklace, and max leather armor mastery.
We will have 87% evasion (round down to 85%) on the average lvl 285 boss (and 66% on bosses with 451 accuracy)
With a +15 Lolopanther boot it will become 94% evasion (round down to 85%) on an average lvl 285 boss (and 73% on 451 accuracy)
So, actually evasion doesn’t “fall off” end game. its just that you have to dedicate everything to evasion to make it work because you need 1000 evasion for ~80%.
In the case of a Fencer or Shinobi, at true endgame, they don’t even need to put points in DEX to get +70% evasion.
What do you mean shinobi and Fencer don’t need dex to get 70%?
Is there a class specific attribute?
Gonna copy pasta from reddit in the hopes you’ll see it 
So, interesting post here.
I do have some things to say though.
Having done a lot of math and through currently working on my own calculator I can say the the answer to the “what’s better, STR or DEX” is “It depends”.
Your calculations described show only what’s best for your specific build. You include a lot of debuffs and buffs that aren’t available to all classes that skew it to lean towards STR.
Through my research I’ve also found that similar skills to double punch, that is ones that have low skill damage but are multi hit tend to favor STR over Dex. This is due to the crits not having more damage to multiply since the skill damage is lower and STR being applied more due to the multiple hits. Often a balance of sorts between STR and Dex is good since multiple hits can also apply Crit Attack multiple times due to multiple chances to crit.
However skills like Fletcher’s Divine Mahcine Arrow, or ones with high base skill damage and single hits tend to favor high Crit builds. This is due to the fact that because there is more damage to multiply the strength of your crits will be more worthwhile than pumping STR. Dex is a % boost in damage where STR is a flat boost in damage, so if you have higher starting damage the % boost begins to become more worth it.
In addition, when you’re suggesting STR or DEX for a build it’s important to think about what you’ll be doing during your whole rotation. Optimizing your build for 1 skill only works if that skill is available ALL the time. This can be the case with classes like Monk, Fletcher, or Scout, who get abilities with 0 cooldown. But those types of 0CD skills aren’t available to every class combination. When trying to find the best stat allocation for your build it’s important to factor in ALL of your skills you’ll include in your rotation as well as what you’ll do in the available time while they are on cooldown. For many, this will be Auto attacks. However playstyle can also change this, where setting up your build to get the best damage out of longer cooldown big damage skils can be good for bursting large groups of enemies quickly while having some downtime.
(I hope this makes sense? If you have any questions feel free to ask.)
All of the evasion bonus from gear already gives you A LOT of evasion.
To top it off, Rogue and Fencer have buffs to increase their evasion by % base.
That is why i said they don’t really need DEX at true endgame.
Actually, what I proved in my post is essentially damage skills that are less than 1000 per hit benefit more from STR. The build I used doesn’t matter. You can change the numbers and it’ll mostly stay the same.
However, dmhamilt showed to me that high damaging skills that has +2000 skill damage benefits more from crits.
Multi hit skills are really just whatever single hit number you have times the amount of hits.
While I did use some buffs (Zalciai: something that boosts crit attack, and Divine Stigma: something that only really gives you +78 dmg and another +78 in a crit) they have literally no impact on my findings.
You can take them out and you’ll see that all of my calculations will just decrease by 100~300 across the board.
I actually didn’t use a single debuff in my calculations. I just assumed the monster has no defense and no crit resistance.
I would agree a balance between the two is best. Specifically getting about 40% crit rate after crit resist.
Most bosses at level 285 have 457 defense and on average 120 crit resist. I'm planning to redo my chart with this in mind.
I haven't actually looked at all of the skills of every class yet, but I would assume most of them are lower than 2000 for a single hit
Also, while I did say a certain ratio was best, that is considering that it would be the absolute minimum for getting 40% crit rate. Overall, the only thing that matters i that you have at least 40% crit rate at endgame. (More if you have a lot of high damage skills)
I definitely did not mean to make this with a “This is the best build you should do in mind,” so if it had that kind of impression I’m sorry. What I did create this for is to set up a baseline for dps since I have yet to find anywhere that has people actually taking the time to research about maximum damage output.
Yes it all makes sense, and it’s very close to what I have. 
ahh, if you go leather or such you mean, and when you say buff do you mean other classes buffing them?
Its isn’t just 2000 skill damage, its ~2000 base damage+crit damage. Str/Patk/Cdmg from gear, an upgraded weapon, and buffs like Swell Right Arm all contribute to that.
Of course, since crit rate is tied to level the amount of base damage you need to make dex more worth it in this fashion will rise as time goes on.
I personally aim to have dex post-scaling to be more or less equal to my level. Not for any specific math reason, but just because it’ll be slightly in favor of str and easy to keep track of.
Fencer has a skill called Lunge that gives them bonus evasion. 100% evasion at level 10
My bad I meant Rogue. Rogue has Evasion (skill) that increases their evasion by 100%
@dmhamilt
I just used 2000 in as a baseline that’s all.
Mm, okay. I was getting the impression from you post that you were suggesting an optimal stat allocation that would carry over to all physical classes. Especially due to the sentance “This isn’t limited to Monk; it works for every Physical based damage class.”
I’m happy to see people number crunching too!
Assuming monsters have 0 Crit resist and 0 armor is assuming debuffs though, because defenses affect DPS enough that it can make certain builds better.
I feel like you might be not giving enough attention to how abilities being multi hit changing how they are optimized between STR and DEX.
As far as there not being many skills with a single hit damage over 2k, once you hit circles 5-7 there are many. Often skills you take in rank 5 reach 2k damage or more by circle 7 if you max them.
Some examples would be:
A rank 15 Crossfire from Fletcher for instance does 2023 base damage, increased to 150% against enemies in the AoE (Using a modifier in either T0 or T1), so even more than that.
A rank 5 Zuken from Dopplesoldner deals 860 over 4 hits, so 3440 + 4x STR & on hit effects. (Trying to show a bit of the importance of multi hit in finding optimal dmg)
Rank 10 Magic Arrow from Fletcher does 1,139 base damage (it can crit). Hits like, 3x a second, up to a max of 10 hits total. So it has a base damage of 11,390 and 10x STR & on hits.
There are some builds that I’ve seen around 66% Crit rate being optimal, in addition to others where 99% crit rate is optimal (I was assuming 0 crit resist since you had the same in yours to try and have an equal comparison.)
I’m just not convinced that you’ve proven that getting to 40% crit chance as a go to magic number for optimal DPS.
One of the most important things I’ve found while doing all this number crunching is to understand exactly what it is you’re finding. By finding the setup to provide the best damage of an individual skill cast you’re not finding the optimal setup for a build’s DPS. You’re finding exactly that, the setup to optimize your damage for an individual skill.
So what might be best for 1 skill, won’t necessarily carry over to another, and through that might not be the best setup for your build.
1 Like
I see what you mean. I’ll go crunch some numbers then.
Also multi-hit skills are really simple to do. All you really need to do is use the skill damage listed and find your damage you do, then you multiply that number by how many times it hits and you get the total damage for that skill.
There really isn’t a BEST allocation of str/dex for a character. Every skill you use has a different amount of damage, which directly impacts the value of dex. Therefore, each and every skill you use has it’s own, personal ideal str/dex point, which is then shifted towards dex by how much other base damage you have. You can average the breakpoints for skills in a given build and guess from there, but to look for a ‘best’ overall split is pointless.
All we can tell you is to aim for a split of some kind. And to definitely not go too far into crit rate as there is a cap where it stops giving you damage.