I’m not gonna deny that this here is p2w.
But… this thread is about how the token’s benefits are viewed as p2w by parasites.
I’m sorry? Lol… Isn’t PAY2win = pay with cash? So now u’re saying pay with silvers?
Doesn’t P2W mean paying real cash to get unobtainable items in game that makes us win?
Going by your logic, you want to stop any method that cashers use to be able to convert their cash into in-game currency. Tell me then, how will F2P players fare w/o token benefits now since it’s not available to them anymore? Or are you gonna tell me that token should be removed also?
How do you think IMC is gonna profit? Just cosmetics alone? Do you really think with such a huge playerbase with tons of F2P unwilling to pay, the game will survive?
Also, you can’t seem to get this through your thick skull. Silvers is available for everyone and these silvers can get you the advantages of a paying player. Or are you gonna use this extremely dumb logic again,
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I see the thread as a discussion on what “p2w” means in a general sense. I’m just relating it to ToS and saying why I feel like ToS does indeed reflect my sentiments toward p2w in the sense that real life cash can and does translate to in-game cash, which directly translates to significant advantages. :0
HOLY… that was a long ass, not needed explanaition and tbh i didn’t read it completelly xD… i said that with paying you will get buffs you cant get with playing… you used RO example, and that’s what i meant, you got items that ridiculously added damage to your kit… like WTF… an item that gives you +50 in all stats (giving a false example) that sheet is p2w.
I’m tired of this 100+ comments in Post saying the same sheet everytime, OP is whining because the new feature of the game lets u buy instantly all attributes, and crying its “p2w” then i use a similar RO example of a P2W that i have acquired over the years… and then comes a “expert” replying to my messages over and over and saying “that’s not p2w this is p2w” and gives the same stupid long ass explanation that i don’t care of a similar case as RO “real money” items, as if only Ragnarok Online is the only MMO that has p2w.
You have games like elsword, runescape, Tibia, that with real money you get this bigass rewards because god knows why, Runescape premmy items usable only by premmys that give you aloooot of damage and defense than Maxed out Non-premmy, Tibia holy damn, only by having like 60% more spells than non-premmy players have is enough to say its p2w,
You want a better example of a p2w? fine, when 2 fking max level in this game , same classes same spells but different items, one with maxed FP items and this other guy has all premmium items and not even maxed ones and the simple weapon has tons and tons of damge and stat buffs just by wearing it, making able to kill like nothing the first one then the game is P2W.
TL;DR Tired of this “smartass” guys saying and pasting images of p2w that want to teach me what p2w is instead of talking to the OP…sorry for long ass not needed explanation LoL
You don’t seem to understand that my argument is real life money translating to in-game money = p2w in my opinion. That’s literally it. xD You even quoted the thing I said after saying that, which remains true: it is not a requirement of p2w to ONLY be able to access a specific item through irl cash–the simple concept of being able to purchase that item instantly through means outside of game (ie irl cash) makes it unfair to players who have to work at the game in order to obtain that advantage, ESPECIALLY if you can take that irl cash item and sell it for in-game money. It doesn’t matter if you can get silver in other ways, it matters that you can use irl cash to get in-game cash.
Tbh, believe it or not, I have been against F2P from the start because of these “advantages” paying customers need to have…
Reason I am against F2P was precisely because of this… But the harsh reality here is that the game needs to make money, they need people to buy stuff…
Maybe u know, maybe u don’t know about these people complaining so much about B2P or P2P… So it was decided all along it would be a F2P… And now that it’s F2P, I see all these threads on P2W…
Money has to come from somewhere… If u don’t want to spend, by all means, your choice… They have already laid out and clearly stated the pros of being a paying customer… To be very frank with you, TOS is very mild in terms of “P2W” or “P2A” or “P2G” or whatever term it is…
Edit: I get what you are saying… P2W is not the same as Fairness… By all means, yes I agree this is not fair to non-spenders… But it is not the same as P2W
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I think that’s sort of the crux of the matter here: I do believe unfairness between payers and free-players = p2w, because I define “winning” as “having the same advantages as everyone else”. :0 Which is fine to disagree on that, but the biggest disagreement between most people seems to be how to define “p2w” which is exactly what this thread is about!
In the end, what matters is that I disapprove of the CONCEPT of providing payers with in-game financial or battle advantages over free-players. Whether you call that “pay to win” or “business model”, I don’t approve of it, and that’s my point. :V
Exactly why I mentioned that you want to shut the method where cashers are able to sell tokens so they cannot convert their IRL cash to in-game currency anymore. This suggestion will just elevate the issue where token benefits will become exclusive to paying players and truly become p2w to an extent since there is a much more clearer advantage for paying players compared to free players.
You also ignored the fact that the game will not survive if cashers cannot sell cash stuff to free players for your convenience. Again, F2P model defintely needs some way to survive. IMC actually chose one of the best path because they didn’t made cash benefits exclusive to cashers but it is actually available to the whole playerbase whether you pay or not.
And please stop talking BS where you think your statement regarding a feature available to everyone is P2W. Even a person with half a brain will understand that if everyone can access it, it means it’s fair.
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even the best hair accessories do little to provide an advantage to people who spend on TP. Even so, they can be sold on the market for silver, so you don’t HAVE TO pay $ for it.
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Haha… Surprisingly, I agree with that… Hence all those thread debates on B2P/P2P/F2P… U can prolly read those older threads if u’re interested to know where I stand…
But it is way past “fair” and even gameplay now that it is F2P… The only way to be really fair and have income for them is to make some sort of subscription, which is impossible now…
We have to live and let live and accept that paying customers will always have the upper hand here…
I am against unfairness too as I too have friends who won’t pay for a game and I would like to be on par with them… But do u think restricting trading of token would work? Restricting enchanted headgears? Really, I dread the uproar it will cause…
I’ve thought about it, and I’ve concluded this: as long as tokens exist, unfairness will exist. If tokens are untradable, then the only people who can benefit from their advantages are people who pay irl cash. If tokes ARE tradable, then people can use irl cash to get way ahead of other players with in-game currency, and then they own the market and get stat advantages far more easily than free-players. It’s a lose/lose with this system, unfortunately. :<
Edit: Perhaps the only way around this issue is to make tokens obtainable through silver from an NPC. Then people can sink silver into that NPC rather than feeding people who pay for tokens with irl money in order to get rich in-game. That would also standardize the price of the tokens rather than have it dependent on players selling them.
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P2W to me was always something along the line of “Items you can obtain through the cash shop and that give you an advantage over free players and said items are obtained through the cash shop only”
The Enchant Scrolls that are sold in the TP Shop can be rolled on a hat and sold/traded to another player, and so are the Tokens. The usable items (Ress Orbs, Megaphone) are easily obtainable through the free tp you get while you play, so hoarding them is nothing but a matter of time and patience.
The cosmetic items don’t really matter at all, and I haven’t tried trading them so there’s that as well.
ToS’ TP Shop feels more like a Pay for Convenience since everything that matters can be easily obtainable through the game’s currency which is open to everyone, or you can skip all of the steps free players need to take to get these items and sink some cash into the game and get them quicker.
I think you missed the part where it’s a FREE to play game. There has to be some incentive to pay IRL cash else the game will die a horrible death. I can’t believe how people dig a hole and stick their heads in it while attaching a “I DESERVE FREE THINGS” sign on themselves.
People who PAY too support this game deserve to have a quicker way of leveling and some perks. It’s not like it’s giving people +100% stats and 500% drop rates.
P2W means that you pay and win over everyone. Not true, free players can kill any person who paid IRL cash as player power isn’t effected by paying at levels where PVP, GVG and PvE mean anything.
I get it: we disagree on the meaning of “p2w”. Understood. You can move on now.
Did u know there are so many players who don’t spend as much as me that are richer in game than i am? I have sold a few tokens at that… >.< I bought all the available packs…
These people worked hard in game, farming stuff and whatnots… If spending this amount even makes me lose out like this, I really can’t see this as P2W…
If buying token is only available through silvers, what is going to entice people into paying for in TOS? Costumes forever that can’t be traded and eats up storage? I don’t know… Can u think of some?
You’re still ignoring the fact that the game is an F2P model and needs a way to survive especially with this huge playerbase to the point that IMC was forced to add seperate regional servers for EU, SEA and BR.
It’s just amazing how entitled people can be.
If tokens are completely removed, IMC needs a replacement that will give them back the amount of sales/income they lost. This might lead to new set of micro-transactions instead where you need to pay for supposedly free features, people will rant again how paying players gets these advantages.
IMC already chose the best way around this. They made cash benefits available to everyone including free players. So do us all a favor and get that through your thick skull.
Well, sorry then, but maybe the word “buffs” is too broad to use then in this situation, because it suggests a temporal effect such as a walk speed potion, we have in tos. Thats a buff.
Maybe its your english.
Cause im reading your post but at certain points its impossible to tell what exactly you are meaning by certain words, such as the example above with “buffs”.
ToS does not have premium items, and the thing is, ofc ppl are going to reply to you. Speaking from my own stand point i sure as hell am going to reply to people who are by now sinking so deep in delusion that they will classify cosmetics as p2w.
The definition of p2w is degrading mainly because of the millennials who never even got to play true p2w games like runescape or ro private servers, so they classify even an xp boost as p2w.
It pisses me off.
It really does.
Reading smartass pampered lil idiots who think that a game should be shunned and the devs should be attacked because there is actually an xp boost available in the shop (which lasts 1 hour lol).
TL;DR: Mind the words you use. Some of them make your point easily misunderstandable.
U’re not far from the truth… LOL~ There really is a version of RO that sells +30 to all stats gears… They’re expensive and non-tradable… RIP to non-cashers…
Just saying 
And 100 post lol thought we have enough debating about this p2w funny