Tree of Savior Forum

A ks - free game

Gameplay Feedback General Feedback
#1

I’ve been playing a certain game lately, and I quite enjoy the ks free aspect of it. It creates a healthy community and enjoyable experience for shy people (like me :v who are afraid to ask to be in a group) . If you are curious, it’s Skyforge.

While playing the CBT1, i saw enough of people who run around crying for a group just to get ignored in the end.

Now, SF doesn’t have experience system so it’s easy to do, ToS does. What if we remove exp from field mobs, and make more repeatable quests ? As long as you hit the mob + the mob is not reseted + the mob is killed, your quest will progress. That means, if I have the quest and see a stranger killing the mob i needed, I help him kill it, then my and his quest will progress, we don’t have to group up. As far as i know, ToS have individual loot so this will not be a problem.

Then what the point of teaming up? Teaming up will allow your quest to progress even when you didn’t hit the mob, this allow your friends to leech and such.

NPC can provide 1-3 repeatable quests, each quest require you to kill a significant amount of mobs (to avoid running back and forth too much) Or the quest can rotate the mobs in order to avoid botting, and scatter people around.

The exp system will remain the same for dungeon.

This is just my opinion, because a grindy game with ks-ers around will only make people more frustrated.
p/s: English is not my mother tongue

5 Likes
#2

Dear god no. This is the complete opposite to the style of game this is. Also in ToS ks does not matter much as you get xp for your share of the damage. You are rewarded accordingly. Also doesn’t matter if your shy use the group function and you can join and leave groups without ever talking to them.

12 Likes
#4

i dont play wow, dad, I thought only old people like you still playing it. Thanks for ur helpful reply

1 Like
#5

Those players should have formed their own party. It takes less time to form a party and invite someone into it than it does to ask for a party invite. I formed many parties in iCBT by just inviting the partyless people grinding around me - no talking required. I noticed that most of the time when people were being ignored it was because the party they were asking for an invite into was already full.

If you are really having a problem with KSers; you can always change channels or move locations, or just tell them to stop. Usually telling someone to stop KSing you works.

I think the bigger problem here is with people lacking adequate social skills and not wanting to talk to each other. This is an MMO, there is a chat window for a reason.
-If someone is KSing you and you don’t want them to - tell them to stop.
-If someone asks for a party invite and your party is full - let them know instead of ignoring them.
-If you ask for a party invite and are being ignored, move on - don’t run around crying about it.

16 Likes
#6

Praise Chebus! No truer words have been spoken.

#7

Put aside the poor social skill, and “its part of the game”, what do you guys dislike about ks-free thing? It takes away the fun/cooperative feeling or something?

#8

If the player that got the last hit got all the xp i would agree but with you getting a % of xp based on the % of max health there isn’t a big deal.

#10

There are a couple of things.

  1. I dislike that I need to talk to NPCs constantly to get my EXP

  2. It actually encourages KSing since there is no downside. You can’t really tell someone not to KS you with your system. If I am fighting a mob, I don’t want someone to run up and KS me regardless of the EXP I get, I feel like that takes away from the satisfaction I get when I kill the mob all by myself.

  3. It means a Full Support Cleric levels at the same speed as a Full DPS Wizard, since you just need to damage the mob. Being able to kill it is irrelevant.

  4. The EXP you DO get would be roughly equivalent to the full exp you would get if you killed every mob you touched, so you can just run around hitting each mob once and let someone else finish it. Why not just make it so you get full EXP when a mob dies instead of splitting it based on damage dealt - it’s the same result as your solution but much simpler since you don’t need to talk to NPCs. (I also don’t like this solution though, due to the reasons listed above)

#11

Yea iv seen some of those “solutions” tested in MMOs and the problem goes from ksing to tagging.

#12

I don’t disapprove or approve of your idea, but if you don’t take the time to consider the alternatives, the existing alternatives, at that… you’re not very much better here than @TankezonE up there.

I’ll give a few personal ones that I’m not sure people share, at any rate. (to stay on topic)

  • I like the dynamics of a KS-capable society. (Drama/Resolutions)
  • A healthy community is not necessarily the same as an active community. I’ll take the second one.
  • I don’t particularly care how the exp is gained, but I’ve gotta admit I prefer the intricacies of field manipulation to the average repeatable quest spam.
  • ToS loot can be set to be shared or cycled. (not a reason, just clarifying)
  • Anti-botting is being handled, so I’ve heard. Something about reapers. (again, not a reason)

p.s. A humble opinion, unfortunately you do need to consider the less humble opinions, too.
That high-and-mighty ‘humble opinion’ loses value to many if you forget that others prefer some consideration, too.
(p.s. to a p.s. way too late to say you were being considerate for other opinions. you didn’t even think about why this isn’t something to be disliked… being ‘open to criticism’ is different to consideration)

#13

Did your mother die? Where’s your manner? My opinion might not be the wisest but your tone just prove you are more of a dumb **** than me. Well, let’s say I’m a support I do 15-20 dmg each hit, then a random dude came by and do the rest of the 95% dmg, now what.

@Chebus: Hmm, fair enough. I guess that’s it. I know there won’t be any possibility in changing the game that way, just voicing an idea anw.
@Lascoot: I didn’t mean for people to make the game the way I want :confused: Just wanted to share my thoughts, I’m sorry that you think it’s inconsiderate

#14


No.

#15

I’m guessing you were not in the beta. Clerics are the starting support class. And the skills they can choose from at the beginning are
Heal
cure
safety zone
deprotect zone

Heal and Cure are amazing damage spells early game (No i am not messing with you)

Deprotect makes your auto attacks do plenty even without str.

If for some reason you chose to take safety zone as your first skill point. I would assume your a STR cleric

Basically being a support does not stop you from doing damage like other games.

#16

Ah I did play the CBT, but since the cd is big, i mostly do basic atk. And i were a priest.

#17

@Wolfcry
I don’t really care if you are, or are not, considerate.
Your use of ‘humble’ there was for show.
I have a poor habit of heating up when I see arrogant ideologies paired with words that don’t fit that stature.
That was my mistake. Sorry about that.

Your opinion itself is not inconsiderate in any way that I know of.
If anything, you’re right… non-KS communities tend to be much healthier… but that’s not certain, varying on a lot of conditions.

GW2, Skyforge, Warframe… all managed to make Anti-KS work, to a degree.
Their methods all differ slightly. (tagging, quests?, instanced teamplay)

The problem with your opinion is that it has the most obvious counter-argument.
Many people dislike that non-ks concept. Reason? Anything, it doesn’t really matter.
You kinda overlooked the most obvious answer.
You’d need to give them a resolution, too… especially when it’s that obvious. (or they riot… harder)

Good day.

#18

Ah on priest Aspersion and Exorcism are garbage did you not take blessing or sacrament? They both make auto attacks good even with low str as well.

Basically what i am getting at is it is reallllllly hard to do inadequate damage in this game.

#19

Ok, wolfiecryer. Here is the deal: ToS team made sure every class can solo with the minimum or wrong skill/stats distribution. Hell, you can even use multiple weapons and swap them and deal good dmg with support, mage classes. What you demostrate with your ignorant and casual comments is that you don’t use your brain and you are not fit to survive. Enough said. I leave this post, I have no interest in participating on such an idiotic topic.

#20

GW2 actually does it the best, there is no ksing.

#21

Fair but due to how the boss system works the proximity party function might not work in this game.

#22

First, to define Kill Steal (KS), you have to assume that players can have some kind of ownership over the monsters, there are several possible reasons to think there is some kind of ownership:

  • You where on the map first
  • You where on the spot first
  • You saw it first
  • You attacked it first
  • You damaged it more
  • You where damaged more by it
  • You made the last hit

Sometimes this ownership is enforced through system rules, other times over social rules (sometimes enforced by moderators or GMs), let’s use RO as an example

System rules:

  • Experience is shared over everyone who attacked the monster
  • Then is shared over the party of the players who killed the monster
  • First player who attacked the monster has the right to pick the drop during the first 5 secs, then everyone else
  • Party loot regulations also apply here
  • The party who kills the monster get’s the quest counter up.
  • MVPs gives an extra reward for the player who made most damage

Social rules:

  • The monster belongs to the first player that attacked the monster / was attacked by the monster
  • MVPs are FFA (anyone can hit 'em)

Currently, in TOS there are not any social rules enforced (because we are on beta and they are not explicitly defined nor enforced), but here are the system rules (i’m not sure about the details, but it’s something like this):

  • Player who made the last hit gets the experience
  • Then is shared over the party, between the ones that saw it dying.
  • Player who made the last hit gets the loot.
  • Party loot regulations also apply here, but only between the players that saw it dying.
  • Player who made the last hit gets their quest counter up.
  • It shares to the party players who saw that the monster died
  • Bosses gives an extra reward to the players who made most damage.

What you propose is to change these system rules, so that any party who attacked the monster gets the full quest reward and no experience reward… but this also means that if you kill the monster in 1 hit, no one else gets a reward except of you and your party, so in the end you are not making a KS free game, you are just changing the system defined rules of ownership of the monster. Also, it would be more convenient if everyone would get full experience from the monster instead of a portion of it, that way you wouldn’t need the use of repeatable quests to enforce your system.

Now, on my opinion… I think that the current system is fine since it adds a competition element to the game, competition can be frustrating, but it’s also rewarding, and in this aspect it rewards being social by forming parties, since bigger parties can kill faster and also share the rewards. (it also rewards being a d**k sometimes, but there are not perfect systems).

1 Like