Every is an overstatement. There isn’t much reason to add linker if you planned to hunt field boss mainly, or already knew/always have another linker in your party. What’s the point of having everyone with the same 100% damage increase buff that doesn’t stack, while you can actually have another rank of stronger spell and buff?
Needing a linker in party is even lesser in priority than needing a healer in party.
How does multiple joint penalties work, exactly?
I thought they basically made the link bigger, turning a five group into a five-nine group, depending on how the links fall.
I’ve been told by a few people that they stack fine.
Basically it’s just a double damage for AOE skill.
I don’t remember Joint Penalty stacking.
What happens when you attack a group of 7 monsters which are in two groups, where three of them are in both?
I say it acts like a 7 link, and follows normal rules.
Perhaps it keeps the two groups separate, and attacking the single linked monsters will only spread to the 5 group, but the double linked will spread once to all 7?
Maybe the second link stops damage being transferred from the middle three to the first link, but the first link’s other two can still transfer to the middle.
Or will the second link break the first link, making it a 2 group and a 5 group?
That’s actually a good question.
The thing is, it doesn’t really matter which one it ends up being. In every case you’re either as good or better after the second linker casts joint penalty. Less effective, but still helping.
Many Linkers in a single party are fine.
Joint penalty will always be an issue because it is (I think) the only % based party damage steroid in the game.
When everything else is linear, % stuff is scary good.
Not really, Joint Penalty don’t work perfectly everytime to gather the mobs around you. There is bound to be some leftout. So there would be actually a big loss in efficiency for 2 linker.
As a Wiz 3 Ele 3, I would prefer having a Peltasta gathering the mob and have the one Linker link it over 2 Linker, given how powerful my spell is when the enemy is gathered. I think the same applies to Wiz Pyro 2 Ele 3. A strong AOE character would prefer a Peltasta over a Linker.
Joint penalty isn’t about the gathering, really. Its about the damage amplification.
It depends on the kind of AoE in question. Frost Cloud, Flame Ground, Hail and Rain don’t deal in AoE ratios, and instead need as many monsters as possible in the radius. Peltasta is perfect for that job.
But if you only have skills that use AoE ratio, linker is very important.
Like, imagine that those skills were changed to have a built in AoE ratio of 4+character. Would you still care as much about the Peltasta dragging 30 mobs onto it?
If they’re medium monsters, you can hit maybe 7 of them at once if you build for it.
So you kite 7ish monsters together and nuke them. But suppose you have a c1 linker around.
Now you hit 7 monsters, plus all the linked monsters, for 12 total hits. That one casting of JP is nearly doubling your output, and that linker has 4 other class choices to make.
Very, very few other classes have infinite AoE ratio skills like Elementalist does. It is those classes that really care about having a linker nearby. An Elementalist in a very high monster density area is one of very few people who wouldn’t really see a big reason to make a linker friend.
I thought the main point of nerfing linker C1 here is that almost every wizard must have it or it is too strong in the party?
Since that now AOE wiz class + Peltasta actually do the job better than Linker, I don’t really see the reason for it to be nerfed. Why not just let the Linker help the other class to have an easier time?
100% extra damage against 5 monster is just okay to me. Efficiency wise all it does is to help to kill extra 5 monsters in a party every 20 seconds, under a very good JP, which you can do the same in some of the other offensive rank.
Well as you said yourself, right now the only people we don’t see going linker at least C1 are Wiz 3 Elem 3 OR people that are partying all the time with a linker. (and maybe some Cryo C3, haven’t seen many of them sadly)
What we’re talking about now is farming groups of mobs, because we don’t have reached the point where people have specific MvP/PvP builds so ofc when it comes we might see less linker C1 in builds hopefully.
You said healer is more a priority than a linker in a party, but heal is something all clerics get at R1, and we didn’t get the nerf on heal during iCBT, so the heal of a cleric C1 was enough to keep parties up so it’s not really a build choice (maybe this will change someday as well, who knows).
About the two linkers thingy, only tested it once but it seemed to me that it would be option 1, ie every 7 monsters taking the damage (don’t know about the additional damage though).
But I also think we still have lots of things to see and test and killing 5 mobs at a time instead of 2 or 3 won’t matter much in the end, just that for now I’d like the choice to be more difficult to make at R3 wiz.
What do you guys think if Linker skills are more reliant on stat like SPR. Ex: Joint Penalty damage link starts at 10% and scales by +10% every 24spr and additional target every 55spr
[quote=“kminh9999, post:60, topic:124730, full:true”]
Hangman’s Knot can pull 100% but can’t bind 100%
[/quote]It doesnt pull 100% of time. Some (non-boss)monsters just ignore pull, then there are some terrain and range issues.
[quote=“dmhamilt, post:62, topic:124730”]
How does multiple joint penalties work, exactly?
[/quote]They dont stack… If you cast JP on already JPed group of monsters it will cancel the previous JP (sometimes skill effect bugs and you can still see previous JP links but monsters dont get shared damage). I’m not sure how devs intended for it to work, but it is extremely buggy atm.
Hark: The full spirit mage legion!
Mages will hate the game for that change. Full spirit will be a necessity to maximize Linker…
No easy change will make up for the Joint Penalty power. As it stands, mages NEED Linker to be as it is, since their other circles are underperforming, whereas it stands by itself higher than any other (specially in instanced gameplay).
The solution is power shifting: Take some power out of Joint Penalty and dillute it over the other mage circles, like Psychokino which is in desperate need of help.
I don’t know why many think other mages are underperforming 
. Some are not very good at start but with a little patience and investing they are extremely strong later. Examples: wiz, cryo, ele at C3 and Thaum at maxed attributes.
Not true, psychokino is a pvp class, i hear they are dominating kr arena pvp
As a full con linker 3 i dont need tank to collect mobs, its a lot easier to control mobs and link them, and it free up a dps spot.
Problem is linker 1 is too good. A few times i felt like linker 2 and 3 was a mistake.
I think Linker 1 is OP, while going Linker 2 and 3 is a bit underwhelming (compared to what you gain by going Linker 1).
Maybe find a way to balance that somehow. Like right now JP’s target count between the circles is 5->8->10. Maybe change it to 3->9->15.
With dandel gem it is 6>8>11 which makes C2 even less desirable. Moving Hangman’s Knot to C2 would fix linker enough: not as powerful at C1, not as powerful at C2 due to reduced HK duration.
Linker 2 and above actually has a good synergy with other class, especially when you are full CON. You can just replace a Peltasta in the team, having function of 2 different class with just one character (tanker and linker).
Your build is not a mistake. Life line and spiritual chain with your full CON will definitely be welcomed at any grinding party. I’m not sure about boss hunting party though (linker is usually not needed).
I do agree with you. I think most people that felt Linker C1 is very strong is because they haven’t reach the later game stage.
With how strong some single target buffs like subzero shield or healing factors looks like on top of anything we could gain later on i’d say linker 2 shouldn’t be underestimated.
Also i find it harsh to say it’s not desirable when it basically gives 10s of complete immobility with hangman knot (on a 10s cd), 3 more linked target without wasting a gem and said buff. Having to buy and bring some daino scrolls sounds inevitable anyway.
Psychokinos needed a nerf, and got one. Psychic Pressure can only be held down for 10 seconds now, instead of infinitely. What they need is other skills that are actually worthwhile, other than telekinesis. Magnetic Force needs help, and Gravity Pole is pretty weak for a C3 skill. People go Psychokino for Psychic Pressure.
I was able to 2-man ( 2nd member wasn’t even a healer ) the 90 dungeon with my psychokino C2 just because of Psychic Pressure. With the stun, I could just mob up entire portions of the map, and psychic pressure stun it, hold down the button until everything was dead. Rinse and repeat.
@lyhonlam69
I also don’t understand why people think mages are doing poorly, or that they need linker. Sure a linker is very desireable in a dungeon instance party, where you typically progress through waves of mobs and linking that wave is nice.
In an open world dungeon / grind party they aren’t nearly as useful as another wizard that is a pure DPS. When you’re mobbing up 20-30 monsters to kill at a time, it doesn’t really matter that you killed 5 of those monsters quickly. You still need to kill the other 15-25 monsters.
So a pure DPS wizard that has linker in the mix isn’t even that great of an addition to the party. That being said, a wizard alone is an amazing addition to the party. Heck any high INT wizard that has taken 1 point in Pyro for flame ground is an amazing addition to the party.