I don’t know how that would work.
But again, I’m not against stopping the action, I mean, even though I’m “not grinding”, I’m being rewarded for doing something that was worthwhile or even better then grinding that X amount of seconds “lost”, but, I do like questing, so, that is me, just me, I can’t force this on others.
Because I know how the industry works. You can EASILY look up this information online. You can also just talk to people who are employed by these companies as well. I think there was someone on these forums at one point that used to work for a botting company for ArcheAge if I recall correctly. I believe there was even a documentary done on this industry several years ago, showing the awful conditions that gold farmers were working in.
Prime example, and just one of many, as to why captchas do not stop bots.
Why its a gross missconception to think that I can run a lan house with 20 pcs running a bunch of clients on each while I watch youtube videos?
this is manned? because it would still be wrecked by captcha as I sure can`t make 20 mob action dinamic minigame on 20 pcs.
Again, please, I will ask again, do you have ANY evidence, statistics that most bots are manned? and what ratio?
Do you realy think you are right on this?
Lets say a mob that would vague randomly and spawn randomly and it would use AOE spells on diferent colors and you had to step on some colors based on some wtf thing better left to Dev.
And killing this mob (by correctly stepping where you should) you would get a truckload of bonuses, it has some kind of ability to heal/protect players a lot while they engage on his captcha gliph stuff making it desirable and easy to beat even on a boss fight?
A few adjusts to make impossible to use his abilitys to defeat high tier content.
and thats it… whats wrong with it?
So… go ahead, why this would be bad? or annoying?
Vanic , I agree with you on bots being controlled by people. Bots will always exist in some capacity. However, what we can try to do is to put obstacles to slow the process/reward of botting. For example, if you put in place a system that requires some sort of input (even if the bot can bypass it by having an actual person react to it) is still something. It will force to actively bot in some cases and in turn, it will require more man power. Furthermore, once IMC ban these bots based on the report system (which can be further improved) it will definitely have an impact on the viability of botting from a business stand point.
Thank you… for god sake I immagined a action based (no freezing), puzzle mob (no break in immersion), captcha based system (interpretation of chaging colors or whatever related to visual illusion interpretation).
A desirable one… It gives nice bonuses.
A not annoying one (if there was some huge boss trying to kill you while you puzzle, it would somehow with some ability avoid that for happening)
And a smart one (it would have the develop considering that people would most likely try to use him to defeat hard content).
OK, this i made in… 10 minutes?
What you guys think the Dev could come up with some serious work?
I guess a very cool looking puzzle system that would amaze noobs, wreck bots and freeze then for longer and longer, and be desirable to the point end game players would WAIT for him to show up before trying the most rewarding dungeons.
So Varic, HOW this is bad?
Spawn a signature enemy of ToS (popolion, hanaming) every so often next to players that grind.
The special enemy spawned has a buff that makes it flash green, while its flashing green you can attack it and inflict damage up to 3 times.
After you hit it 3 times the buff turns into red flashing and every hit on the enemy heals it back up.
The red flash buff disappears after 5 seconds and turns back into green flashing.
If a bot/player hits the enemy while it flashes red more than 5 times they will get a debuff for 10 minutes that reduces combat effectiveness or gets you a penalty on silver/grinding.
Mob gets only 1 dmg per attack and should have 9 HP for a clean 3-cycle kill.
Successful kills rewards a buff for higher EXP
Super tired right now so not sure if what I said is easy to understand
But probably not a great idea since bots could be programmed to ignore those enemies
if you cant take complains and disagreement, you aren’t fit for posting ideas or suggest anything at all…
then again… complaining about complains is also a natural part if things 
as i was saying to solve the bot problem you need to change the whole way on how computer works, it needs a true validation that came from maybe the bios or the OS that says… “hey, there is someone hitting the keyboard” instead of receiving the code based on the key pressed.
I mean that what needs to be done is a code. The problem is bigger than the game, it is behind, almost in the hardware.
It was Ghrim, but we should add that players gain something cool for defeating it so that its a cool feature instead ‘‘just some other anti-bot system’’.
What you said about the mob changing colors its actually way easier than it making aoes that people need to step, its easier to control attacks than running to get some aoe (even if its delayed).
Also needs to have a way of forcing bots to engage it and at the same time not beeing annoying to players.
Nah, at the end of the day anything like this can be replicated.
Could make it like anvils, spawn as property of a player and if you move too far away it despawns and applies the debuff automatically.
That way you can also prevent of others griefing your special mob and healing it back up when you try to kill it.
LOL ofc not, you just need something that a person can do easily and a bot can`t unless its complex enough to pass for human-only behavior.
and it they break that ■■■■ ToS the silver sellers found legit AI, its The Matrix now.
theres a lot of signature human-only behavior that a bot cannot reproduce, like illusion/color interpretation among some others realy complex like simple tendency/hesitation reading on the imputs (ReCaptcha new system seems to work using that)
mmm I like where you are going…
but how would you code actual press feedback… it is actually harder than it reads 
then again… mmm
You could, though you need to pay a little attention to the clients, and seeing as this is your job, you would be doing that instead of watching youtube videos.
You could easily do it on 20 PCs, one at a time. If you couldn’t, then you wouldn’t be able to do it on one PC as a legitimate player, and the system is way too hard then.
That’s almost impossible to tell. There are so many companies now, you would have to survey each one individually. The way this industry is TYPICALLY ran though, the bots are definitely manned. That’s like asking how many McDonald’s have over 8 employees. It is PROBABLY all of them, but you would have to call each one to ask to be sure. I’m not doing that.
Yes. You also think you are right. The difference is that I provide you with facts on how the industry works and then you get mad and repeat yourself.
You can go ahead and read any of my previous posts to tell you exactly why this system would potentially be bad for the average player while doing virtually nothing about bots. I’m done repeating myself. It’s a waste of time at this point with you since you refuse to learn anyways.
The problem is that botting becomes rewarding so quickly that it doesn’t really matter. You can make a fair amount of wealth in quick amount of time.
Let’s say they have 20 bots running at a time with one employee at a time watching it. As these bots are typically ran in China and Russia (i’m not being xenophobic here; I’m just being realistic), the employee is probably making roughly $3 an hour. I don’t know what the current rate is on RMT, as I don’t pay attention to it. Let’s say 100k is $1.50. If each of those bots makes 20k an hour, it is worth it. This is while selling all drops as they don’t need to hold onto anything for late levels. Realistically, these bots could be making like 80k an hour, which makes it VERY worth it.
Even if you get these bots banned within 3 hours (which let’s face it, isn’t going to happen) of making them, they can already transfer their funds to their main account and just make new botting accounts anyways. This is (one of many reasons) why scheduled bans are bad. You can at least take SOME of the money out if you catch them off guard.
There’s a reason this industry is huge. It’s not run by amateurs. It is a business. You can’t treat this like a kid running 20 computers while watching youtube and waiting to get a check in the mail for $1000.
They wouldn’t even have to. It would be fairly easy for a bot to recognize which type of buffs an enemy has. This would only help bots.
yeah that might work xD.
Well, we also need the debuff to increase the likeness of that mob to spawn, so that bots would stack negatively very fast and humans could try it again to clean the debuff very fast.
The easiest way to rape bots:
IMC must implement an Anti Memory Read in the game.
99% of bot programs lies in read game memory and change them.
This is a cute idea but… it will never work.
Wakfu derives on turn based combat, whereas Tree of Savior is action and real time. There’s really no way to code something to work similar to a captcha in this environment that the bot programmers couldn’t easily code a work around.
Actually Vanic you are not providing any facts about industry at all. You are just saying how do you think those industries work, and saying this is common sense, but its not you know?
If i’m silly, you are just as silly, I have my opinion and you have yours, your facts are not supported by anything and they are just empty and not safe to assume, thats why you need to keep repeating yourself because you are not saying anything that its resembles something that I can see its ‘‘fact from industry’’.
How can you tell all that? How that you think you can know so much about how bots work?
You just don’t lol. See this is why I attacked you from the beginning because I knew you would be a intelectualy dishonest debater as they many '‘you’'s always are, you use your speculations and pressuppositions as they were estabilished facts.
Well… they are not. So unless you can use something we can both agree as resource to debate you will have to prove everthing and keep repeating youself because what you say just does’t looks like solid and unbiased, unfortunaly.
I don’t think most bots are manned in less than a 20:1, ratio I also don’t like the way you make your math disregarding all costs with energy/place/laws/tributes/transferences of money or whatever huge ammount of costs that any realistic serious company would have.
We can’t simply assume everything that you are assuming, this is stupid.
So if you want to show your opnion use something we all can see its truth in your statments or just provide evidence that at least leads us to believe its likely truth.
Just repeating youself and saying ‘‘this is like this, i`m presenting facts’’ will not work, sorry.