Tree of Savior Forum

15th of Sept - kCBT3 Patch [Huge necro buff]

If people who play pokemon use the actual game to breed/minmax/ev iv train then yes there is a lot of work ^^ but using those ladder sims makes it less work cause you can get straight into the competitive nature of it all not saying you should not spend time making/breeding/training your own pokemon but some choose to and some rather use the simulators to play the ladder system vs others/friends/people made gyms/ cause the rankings show a type of prestige.

^@jochris i am agreeing with what you are saying unless you meant that post towards someone else lol, there are more things to do then just PvP, the social aspect or PvE side of the game is huge so there will always be something for someone to do as some ppl will enjoy exploring, finding treasures, PvPing or trying to unlock those hidden classes, if you are not pointing it towards me then ignore this post.

Oh did I reply to wrong person? Hahaha

Is naming calling your version, of, “OMG guy proved me wrong?!?!?!!11111 Oh noes better call him names that will prove me right!11!!!”?

Except when someone tells you the how the details probably are you out right ignore them.

I have never seen a games standardized PVP make progress completely irrelevant. The last two I played Echo of Soul, and Blade and Soul both had standardized PVP and in both of them having a higher level gave a huge advantage. In Echo of Soul if a level 30 was pushed to the cap he didn’t gain his extra abilities, he was literally a buffed up version of lvl 30. And all the standardization ended at the level cap.

If you think attributes will be standardized then you might be the dense one. If the game did that then not only would there be no point for progression it would make sense for PVP players to not progress because they could change their builds every match.

It’s a safe assumption to say that won’t happen. I have never seen a game do that. The time alone it would take someone to fill out their build would be a huge deterrent. If this game did that I am betting it would say it instead of saying standardized which is the termology that most games that have PVP use for the playstyle that I am suggesting.

Neither one scales with INT or SPR. Not even their respective levels (Tower gets higher duration and Death more skeletons, which is actually more damage, but no increase in numbers per attack).

I noticed Tower does Poison damage, and the mob I was testing gets 50%+ damage from poison, so the real damage is not that great. Sometimes its shots also miss (not the miss from evasion, but actually not hitting anything, may be a bug).

Maybe Tower will be good for zoning in PvP, but it’s underwhelming for PvE.

[quote=“jochris, post:84, topic:40585”]
This game’s formula is linear. Level-ups add status points. Simply said: character with level 100 (outside PVP) may have 100 additional dex, which therefore gives a certain number of accuracy. Character with level 200 (outside PVP) may have 200 additional dex, which therefore gives more evasion. If the difference of [evasion - accuracy] is too wide, it may give 100% evasion rate. So, levelling up is useless?
[/quote]Actually the bonuses are higher.
From base to 90~ every 5 points you alocate on a determined Stat will give you 1 bonus point on that Stat.
From 90~ to 190~ every 4 points alocated will give you 1 bonus point.
From 190~ to 290~ every 3.

Don’t have enough points to test further, but anyways, even tho going Pure Stat is bad for many reasons, having a higher level will allow you to reach the next treshold for more stats and get more bonuses than people at low level.

@jochris
I don’t understand at all the point of your post.

Are you just trying to say that there is more to do besides PvPing? Because if so, that’s true, but not for me. I play MMOs because it’s fun to progress and eventually be prepared enough to PvP, if that progression has nothing to do with PvP I have no reason to progress at all.

Guess what? Different people play for different reasons. If you care about the PvE even if it leads to nothing then good for you, I don’t care.

@imissbrooke32
Haha, what? Where did you even prove me wrong to begin with?

In the first place your anecdotal evidence is not stronger than mine as I also gave examples. So I don’t know what your point is there.

And you keep missing the point, it’s amazing. Where did I say that “I think attributes will be standardized”? For the fouth time I’m going to explain to you that I’m talking about the hypothetical case that they also get stardardized and why it would be bad.
And yes, you just explained the problem with this, there would be no point in progression and that’s exactly what I’ve been saying all along, but of course you don’t read ■■■■.

“It’s a safe assumption” Yes, and it’s also just an assumption. You aren’t proving anything wrong just like I’m not trying to prove anything myself, but for some reason you want to make this a competition or something. Stop acting like you are superior, you can’t even read clearly.

Man, I sure like the Fedimian’s Mercenary Post now.

You were complaining that everything outside of PVP would be irrelevant. I was pointing out that wasn’t the case (In other words proving you wrong).

Attributes alone would make a huge difference. Classes + Circle Ranks would make a huge difference. Attributes take time, and classes/ranks take quest being done. They are just standardizing levels and gear right now. At least that is all we know about at the moment.

Oh-See I thought we were talking about the game and reality. I didn’t know you were just making up things to complain about. I can be like you too. Watch. The leveling system will be pointless if they remove XP completely. I know they aren’t going to remove XP and that wouldn’t make sense but this game would suck if they did that.

My statement is accurate but notice how it makes no sense, and is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand? That is how your statement is. You make it and when people try to tie it to the actual topic at hand and refute it you get upset and start calling people names and saying others don’t understand. We understand. It’s just that you are wrong (With the information given).

The information given is that the level is standardize and gear. No mention of anything else, so it doesn’t make sense to assume (like you are) that anything else is being standardized.

"You were complaining that everything outside of PVP would be irrelevant. I was pointing out that wasn’t the case (In other words proving you wrong)."
Except that’s wrong. “Would” is keyword here. In the hypothetical case, it WOULD be irrelevant. You are just pointing out that the hypothetical case is not what is going to be implemented, which is not what I am talking about.

"Attributes alone would make a huge difference. Classes + Circle Ranks would make a huge difference."
This is what I’m talking about. In my hypothetical case, they don’t. If they actually do, that’s great, that’s what I want. That doesn’t make the hypothetical case and it’s repercussions wrong at all.

"See I thought we were talking about the game and reality."
We are talking about the game and potential what ifs and the problems with those cases, specifically not the reality, in fact, you even admitted to know that we were talking “what ifs” in an earlier post, and now you are playing dumb? That backfired for you, it seems.

"My statement is accurate but notice how it makes no sense, and is completely irrelevant to the topic at hand? That is how your statement is"
If you are talking about removing EXP, yes it’s irrelevant to the topic at hand, however I’m talking about the PvP standardizing which is exactly one of the updates.

You are not making any sense at all anymore, stop.

[quote=“Narue, post:92, topic:40585, full:true”]
Except that’s wrong. “Would” is keyword here. In the hypothetical case, it WOULD be irrelevant. You are just pointing out that the hypothetical case is not what is going to be implemented, which is not what I am talking about.[/quote]

And that’s exactly my point. Your hypothetical case is irrelevant because there is no mention of that being the case. I prove it wrong and your defense is, “Well in my hypothetical world it is the case”. Sure, if all progress was irrelevant then people wouldn’t progress BUT that is not the case. It’s like you are saying, “2+3=6” and then I am saying, “No, 2+3=5” and then you reply, “In my hypothetical case there could exist a world where 2+3=6”. Sure. But we are talking about reality here.

[quote=“Narue, post:92, topic:40585, full:true”]
This is what I’m talking about. In my hypothetical case, they don’t. If they actually do, that’s great, that’s what I want. That doesn’t make the hypothetical case and it’s repercussions wrong at all.[/quote]

And again there has been no mention of attributes, ranks, or classes in the update list. And it makes sense to standardize levels because levels impact base stats on a pretty big level (Find a stat calculator put 50 con down and just switch the character level around to see how huge the difference is. It’s big). If they did mention Attritubtes, Classes/Ranks, then I would be agreeing with you. But that isn’t the case and if it is we will quickly find out because we will see lots of people complaining about it.

Aww. I see you are back to, “OMG!1111!!! He proved me wrong I better name call him to prove I am right!11!!”. If you want to make up what ifs to complain about go ahead. But don’t get sad when people connect it to the game and prove it wrong.

[quote=“Narue, post:92, topic:40585, full:true”]
If you are talking about removing EXP, yes it’s irrelevant to the topic at hand, however I’m talking about the PvP standardizing which is exactly one of the updates.

You are not making any sense at all anymore, stop.[/quote]

There is no mention of standardized attributes, skills, classes, or ranks. Your made up situation would be just as relevant as my made up one (Hint: Irrelevant).

I am not the one that is reverting to, “It’s okay my argument is hypothetical and still right even though it is wrong in reality!”.

What the ■■■■ are you even saying at this point? It was a hypothetical case because I have no way to know how it actually is. This is probably the third time I say it.

I have no idea what your problem is anymore, your whole post is a clusterfuck.

What I am saying is clear. I could repeat it a 100 times but you obviously won’t understand it (I have already said it several times after all).

The only person arguing your hypothetical situation is you. Everyone else in this entire thread has been talking about the actual game.

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Really liking the Necro buffs. The class deserves the buff since it was a really lackluster class to begin with. It is safe to say that Necro was just a ‘filler’ class. You can’t be too serious with it if you want to compete with others. It is a class that was made just for the sake of having fun. I’m glad that IMC turns the table around for Necro. Might play this class as my fourth alternative character if time isn’t an issue in the future lol…

For the PvP revamp, the much appreciated ‘standardized’ PVP system, while is debatable, is really good for creating a good , healthy competition environment for ‘everyone’, meaning casuals, hardcore, etc. can just enjoy the taking on other players. You would see one in one of the older game, Dragon Nest. When the similar system hit the game, people started going PvP. Blade & Soul have it the same as well and it was a success. Don’t know why some people here bitching about the new PvP system. I rather win by taking over my opponents with pure skill and strategy rather than winning by having godly gears. Although if I may suggest, it would be wiser to separate the two systems by separating rooms so that the people who wouldn’t stop bitching about the system can enjoy their preferred ‘faceroll’ PvP system just to realize that there won’t be people in the older system because the new system is just better by tenfold.

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@imissbrooke32 @Narue

In all seriousness though @Narue, I’m shocked you like PvP but don’t approve of a completely leveled playing field. Where is your sense of competition, mane?

Wanting in-game progress to be a factor between players means he cares about MMO PvP. If you want an entirely balanced playing field then MMO PvP should be the last place you look to, seeing as how it’s not designed around that aspect alone. Forcing balance between players despite their different level of progress even further will only serve to make it a pseudo-MOBA seperate from the rest of the game entirely.

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Asking for the matches to not be completely lop sided is a far cry from asking them to be entirely balanced.

In the current way PVP is handled people who were level 100 could be pitted against people who were level 200.

A swordsmen that is level 100 (No stats allocated at all) would have 3,800 Hp, and damage that is 108. At level 200 (No stats allocated at all again for simplicity) has 7,400 HP and 208 Damage.

A two handed sword that requires lvl 170 has 235-436 damage where one that is lvl 75 has 101-189 damage.

With the current system having a lower level join your group, or someone exceptionally high on the other team made the matches more frustrating than fun. The gap in power between levels is extreme.

This current system means if a lvl 100 warrior is one one team and the other team has a lvl 200 warrior their base stats will be standardized so one doesn’t have an HP Pool twice as large or damage that is twice as large. This isn’t taken into account the stat allocation though. Variations in stats will come form that.

This doesn’t have to be an all or nothing playstyle choice (And Tree of Savior isn’t treating it that way). It doesn’t have to be completely closed off, balanced MOBA Playstyle and it doesn’t have to be completely open to unfair match ups to be MMO PVP.

They could attempt to make the game fun and challenging for everyone and at the same time allow people who choose PVP Skills, Stats, Gems, and attributes, to lead the way.

Fair enough, but let’s keep in mind arena will more than likely not be our only mode of PvP (at least not permanently).

If it did end up being the only mode for PvP, I think we’d have a much bigger problem on our hands… lol.

@imissbrooke32
Am I getting this right?
-All Level stat bonuses of my lvl 200 will be the same as your lvl 100.
-My lvl 200 stat build will do exist in arena as advantage.
Begging for being stupid

I’m late to the party but if this is true, then damn… even with a Hybrid stat build, at level 600, you’re going to have really nice stats for whatever you put in there I thought we had to compromise but with this in place, things become fairly simple.

Check out a stat calculator (I linked it a few times in this thread). Put 50 points into CON and then check it at level 100, and then at level 200. The person at level 200 will have nearly twice the HP Pool with the same stats.

So if I am level 100, my level will be raised to 200 and my base stats will be standardized with yours (So you won’t have double my HP pool). But then because of the 100 extra points you might have 3k+ more hp, or hitting harder, or more evasion (Depending on where you put your stats).

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Everything’s clear now thanks