Tree of Savior Forum

World Boss Hunting; Let's make a positive change

I suck at editing posts for readability so bear with me as I make live adjustments to the formatting

I would like to take a few minutes to discuss something a little different from what we experienced in icbt2… and what we can do to make it a better experience for everyone.

Icbt2 World Boss (henceforth referred to as “WB”) hunting typically involved having specific timers that were confidential to specific players for means of hoarding the boss to themselves. I even took my place in a few of those Ella spawns with a vow of secrecy on those timers (I wasn’t in this vid though! lol just for reference that this hush-hush WB was in fact in the game but kept largely secret from the community… by the community).

While playing in the icbt2 I could understand the benefits to keeping those timers under wraps; the more people that knew the more players there would be contesting your right to drops and the more drops that (weren’t yours or a friend’s) would be in circulation thus cutting profits. At the time this felt acceptable practice, to keep what we earned to ourselves both in killing and in timer management, but, in hindsight, it is utterly selfish and unbecoming.

Now, I’m not saying if you hoarded timers with your guild or network of friends that you are a bad person or anything. I mean this was the environment we created and we played by the rules we made for ourselves. What I am saying though is it doesn’t have to be that way going forward; we can change this ourselves by our own practices as well as by raising our voices with how WB loot is distributed to promote a friendlier and more active WB hunting community.

Please click here for a live peek as to how another game’s community handles their WB timers.

The link above is for Aura Kingdom and the timers you see on this mirror are live and maintained by separate dedicated community members and groups who make the edits and calls publicly and promptly. These editors guide all who are participating in-game to the appropriate channel during play and notate on the sheets which bosses do not spawn and which bosses do spawn and their correlating timer. The groups LH and WLG even go so far as to have created separate timer sheets that can be edited publicly by anyone in case they would like to contribute in the absence of a group or to start their own form of timer management.

The sheet you see is for only two WB, both of which are the current end-game WB, and it is promoted to share this information with other players so that they can take part. The editors themselves are a very special kind of hero for the community; everyone honestly thanks them for their efforts because, without them, the boss timers would get horribly wrong and inefficient, and players would be missing out on their chances to participate.

Now, before anything is said, yes, the games are different, as are how they handle WB encounters. The WB in Aura Kingdom are on fixed timers from the time-of-death of the WB, loot is distributed via in-game Mail as a participation reward chest (meaning even if you only got one single hit in on the boss you’ll receive the same reward as the player who chunked its health hardcore), and the bosses themselves are in fixed spawn locations.

Our own ToS doesn’t always have the same spawn location so jumping from channel to channel hunting for these bosses isn’t always ideal… but that isn’t to say it would be impossibru. I’m sure a community such as our own can find a way to make this system work for us as well. My first suggestion for this is that a guild, or two, steps up and forms for the purpose of WB hunting and making the timers public. These players could set up an internal system with each player having recall points to specific spawn locations so that finding these bosses takes minimal time. I would happily join and contribute as well. This guild, or these guilds, as many of you could guess by now would likely be as popular, or more popular, than the “best pve” guilds or the “best pvp” guilds in the game. Both figuratively and literally because this guild would be popular by giving back to the community itself, by being a part of something bigger that has everyone’s best interests in-mind, and for having a reputation of always knowing the scoop on the bosses that matter (at lv600 I’m sure not everyone will care about a lv100 WB spawn so it would likely only require keeping notes on maybe 1-5 total end-game WB events).

What is more is that public timers and public participation, in the current system, intentionally robin hoods these drops from proclaimed elitists who would prefer to keep them to themselves to profit at the expense of your ignorance.

If everyone has access to timers we can expect to see:

:santa: More players taking place in the events that come with some bosses with unique requirements which makes for faster spawns.

:santa: Faster kills which also translates to faster spawns on next cycles and channels, lowering the total time required to cycle through available bosses and increasing the overall spawn rate on these bosses.

:santa:. A more fair environment for receiving drops; more players means each player deals less overall damage before the boss is dead, which allows more players and parties a chance at vying for the top ranks more evenly. A counter to this would be that bursty classes are favored more than steady but higher overall dps classes as the amount of time alive would be lower for the WB with more players participating. (However, should IMC follow suggestions regarding WB loot distrobution based on participation, then we may see a much better scenario where all players who participated are rewarded, similar to how other games handle WB encounters)

:santa: More items in circulation. This is due to more players having access to the opportunity for the drops as compared to a small clique who can govern when they release their drops to the market. I.e. no more monopolies on drops. This would, in turn, lower prices overall for these drops allowing all players (hardcore and casual) a more fair and realistic price on the gear they may need.

:santa: People will know when they can take a break from the grind without sitting around wasting their time checking dead-ends and fake global calls on spawns. These public timers would become a go-to for many players; “I can grind for an hour but then I need to repair so I can get to the event at Map X in time then grind another two hours” is largely more efficient than “I can grind for an hour but if I want to find a WB then I guess I’ll check every channel of every spawn location and blow my remaining two hours of play time only to likely never find a boss” lol.

I’m sure there are many other benefits to the timers being made public. The negatives largely revolve around an individual or a group’s greed… but even that is due-in-part to how WB loot distribution is handled. It is because of this that I am tagging our staff so that they can witness for themselves the opinions of the players around these bosses and their loot distrobution. I mean, let’s face it, end-game in any game normally involves some form of daily objective and then killing the strongest of whatever you can find. Hunting WB is a very important time sink that many of us were doing even when we reached cap in icbt2, imagine how much more important it can be later at true cap.

So… who is going to help make this happen? =)

@GM_Erick

Even community managers in games such as AK have contributed to global timer documentation as seen here at portskandia (Myzzrym@aeriagames is shown as a special thanks in contribution/ donations). Although it can be noted that the site just linked does not have the latest WB data and thus LH and WLG maintain the timers as seen in the previous google.doc I posted.

I expect to get a bit of flame from this post as not everyone wants to share their timers… and having a guild or active group that updates these timers publicly will be bad for business for those that hoard their timers. So not everyone who reads this will be excited about the idea of a one-stop site (even if it is just a google.doc) that you can see all the timers and actively participate in more bosses with less time wasted in searching. I really do hope though that IMC will adjust their WB loot distribution to include everyone who participates so that this will be a non-issue going forward. An option to hide other players on-screen (that aren’t in your party) would also immensely help in populated areas and WB encounters.

I don’t want to be alone in documenting and making these timers public although I will still do my best to help everyone as best I can by at least making the most important end-game WB public and accessible. Even if I end up being the only player updating timers =( If we get a group or guild together then we can expand to other WB and channels much more effectively.

If you have read this then it would be appreciated if you could leave a comment, even if it is just a “I could support this idea” or a “wtf scrublord nobody cares” =) Thank you for your input!

10 Likes

I believe there were community world boss timers ( spreadsheets ) that were passed around in icbt2, and there is one for ktos as well.

1 Like

I don’t know how you intend to change approach to World Boss hunting without World Bosses (and the game itself) but good luck. First we see the Bosses and their spawn system, then we talk.

If you concerned about this conspiracy happening again at the OBT/release you probably may relax as CBT was a bit of special case. With exception of a handful of players that capped their 1-2 chars at 200 most of the people wasn’t very interested in the ‘end game’ content in the first place. Some of them started leveling new char over and over after reaching rank 6, some were stuck because grind walls/traps and the most were simply bored and left. And yeah, there were also people who actually tested content and contributed to the community. No, seriously, I saw someone. I think.

Anyways that ‘secret’ was kept by a competitive players with ‘special’ mindset. The fun is that it wasn’t a secret - anyone could look into database about Ellaganos spawn place and simply check it from time to time (thats how I knew about it, but I never tried to hunt it). If more people reach high levels those ‘secrets’ instantly become common.

1 Like

Hello there, I think is a pretty nice project you have there.

I want to help with what I can do, currently I’m playing Korean TOS and the least thing I’m doing is killing WB because of the chaotic spawn times from then.

The thing is that what @Noah_ mentioned is true, we have to hunt the WB to be able to set the timers.

@zhouyu47 mentioned to me that there is one timer for WB in KR INV website. Could check on that to start ur research.

If you need a place to discuss the project in particular with more detailed information and really want to go forward with it, you can find me in the (Gilgamesh) the Baka Gaijins Discord server and we could chat there: https://discord.gg/0kAEHgHinIJ4lIJm

1 Like

It’was kinda fun reading because this WB topic was one of the biggest issue in KTos communities (inven, DC inside, etc).

Timer… yes it was true that at the beginning of Kobt, it was kept secret and surprisingly it’s still a secret! There’s one community that shares WB timer(inven) but that timer isn’t updated frequently & have no information of popular WBs. Only minor WB(which drops useless items) timer exists.
So I totally agree with this WB timer idea.

But there’s another problem, a bigger problem. The distribution system of WB cubes. As far as i know, the current system gives the rewards to top 7 damege delt players (NOT party) and their party members. So theoretically 35 players can get the cubes. But in reality only 10 to 15 players gets it. The reason follows

  • Even If the top players are in the same party (i.e damage rank 1 to 5) they won’t be counted as 1party but will be counted as 5 players. Which simply means it can be monopolized by the few top players and it is currently happening. And most likely those rankers already have their own parties and communities such as guilds.

Aside from this monopolization thing, the current system still has problem which makes support charaters almost impposible to get the rewards if they don’t have a strong party. Why? Cause they do no damage to WB. And because they do no damage to WB, no one wants them to be in their party.

I personally think imc shonuld change the way that they distribute the WB rewards. They should give a reward to every player that participated in the raid but for sure they should reward more cubes to the top players. (I.e 5 cubes for top 5, 3 cubes for 7, )

5 Likes

The world boss hunting in the cbt may have been a special case, true, as well as spreadsheets that were available at the time (also true but more clique than anything with intentional disinformation in some) but what I would like to see is an active change in how those timers are shared.

Previously this was done in very small social circles… even Ella would die in silence 90% of the time to a small group of 5 in under a minute. Being privy to all such timers was impossible as the WB could effectively be dealt with in such a small window of time. Even the sheets were updated more with the time of death post demise by several minutes rather than actively as the boss spawns and dies, as well as the area and notable absences.

I know though that I won’t be able to document and set anything up until the next cycle hits us, whether that is another cbt or obt, but I feel it’s better to prepare for it and plan for the documentation rather than try to rally an active and sharing community afterwards. This also gives us extra time to voice concerns over loot distribution as countless players in-game expressed dissatisfaction with the cube system in cbt. As more and more players become invested in WB (as pointed out in cbt there were smaller numbers of capped players looking to hunt) it will mean a much lower percentage of the actively participating players in WB encounters will be receiving loot.

In the cbt if there were 30 players then maybe only 1-2 parties may be excluded from the drops. If 100 players participate in a WB spawn then the number of lootless parties will be much greater which will result in a much lower percentage of parties actually receiving loot for the kill. This means that as WB hunting becomes more of a priority for players we can expect to see higher dissatisfaction rates with the current loot system; it would suck to visit every WB and still be without a single drop at every visit.

I think this would be a good time to test the waters and see if the community managers would be able to see about getting this changed to a participation based reward where all players involved receive an equal reward as this has been suggested before but then forgotten.

Good point @Compacti ,

Is this gonna become a project or what? @Shadeborn

Cheers

For sure it’s going to happen! XD

Although as pointed out without access to our next cycle there isn’t a lot we can do yet, especially since we won’t be aware of the actual end-game bosses worth setting up timers for etc. Although I imagine we’d likely set up timers for mid-game too as we progress toward cap, but, a lot of grinding would be lost on maintaining the sheets and farming WB spawns rather than hitting cap. So I’d venture to say mid-late game WB would be the only ones worth actually setting up sheets for and currently those aren’t even in the game xD That and I’m avoiding kobt as it is a good source of news for things to come but things will likely change greatly over the course until we get our own obt. So I wouldn’t be of service for kobt WB hunting either =P

But I do think that it would be worth looking into to get a solid formula based google.doc set up (like the one I listed) at the very least, complete with hotkeys (ctrl+shift+; for instance posts an immediate and complete time-stamp in the cell on that sheet) and cross-reference cell calls between other sheets etc. And start a group focused around it.

To the serious group, end-game world boss timers may even be something with profit we could cycle back into the community; google adsense if the timer page becomes a go-to source of information which would then allow hosting fees to be paid for a third-party site we create with the excess revenue returned to the community in forms of TP package raffles and mini-events. That’s getting ahead of myself a bit, but, not a far shot. I can’t count how many times I’ve loaded timer sheets for games in my browser, constantly checking, so after a successful google.doc we could then advance into an even better and more involved timer service.

I am re-attending soon though so I won’t have the time to spear-head the project but I will certainly commit myself to being involved. I think for now what we could do is find like-minded players who are willing to help the community with public and efficient documentation so an editing group can be formed. In-game this could also become a guild. We can also use this idle time to press the WB loot distribution to at least ensure IMC hears how horrible the current cube system is and how much worse it will be when there are more players hunting bosses; if we can get that changed to a participation reward then a lot more people will be willing to contribute to clean and professional public timers.

1 Like

Your idea reminds me of GW2 WBs where spawn times are public so tons of people cluster-■■■■ the WB and spam whatever the ■■■■ skills they want on it without any strategy at all because everyone who participates gets loot. I absolutely hate that.

Maybe I have just played RO for too long, but I prefer running around the world looking for WBs and, when I find them, killing them with a relatively small group of people (i.e. a single guild) where strategy matters and each individual’s contribution makes a huge difference.

I do not like WB battles where there are tons of people wailing on a boss without any strategy and your individual contribution makes 0 difference to the outcome of the battle.

I understand that you want to prevent the monopolization of WBs, which I agree with, so perhaps just make the WB spawn times random (i.e. anywhere from 1-8 hour spawn time) so that they can not be efficiently camped.

2 Likes

Yeah right now things are hit-or-miss with our WB spawns.

I mean… it’s a cross between effectively camped and random hunting. It would be nice if it were just one or the other.

As it is currently we have, and will have, small WB hunting guilds with inside timers where they will be able to effectively farm the bosses… which turns into less of a world boss and more into a free treasure chest for exclusive members. The players with the timers are able to be there first which, in a contribution system, guarantees their drops where as you will have to fight to only hope for a drop. And that isn’t even counting when those WB hunting guilds get big enough to not only get there first with a few parties, but with all their parties, and guarantee all the drops for themselves and none for passer-by’s or world chat announcements.

In short the current distribution method and timer setup favors monopolies and greed. A participation system would solve this so everyone gets a reward, which would be great, but I agree public timers and giving back also results in the WB dying very quickly and with everyone nuking as fast as they can instead of planning and engaging with wit.

Ideally I agree that if they set the spawn timers to be random it would solve a lot. Likewise though if they change it to random times I feel they should also still make the change to a participation system. Otherwise those same WB hunting guilds will instead camp those locations for longer and announce internally when one spawns which means the very best WB come release will still be effectively out of reach for all other players (as a contribution system would ensure they get the reward for calling their guild mates quickly whereas you and other players would be left cold with drops since you won’t likely rally enough damage in time compared to a guild that was waiting).

In any instance though I feel public timers will hero the community more than if the timers remained in cliques so either way I will be making public sheets to help counter the hoarding. But again, ideally, yeah they should set WB timers to be much more random and couple that with participation so they can’t be hoarded by groups who call in their private teams first =P

2 Likes

The problem is, unlike AK that you only need to hit that GOAT once to get its drop (reward goes to your mail), in ToS your party or you to be exact need to land hits and be one of the top players that dealt most damage to get drops (limited people can get the boss cube)

And aside from that, bosses in ToS dies in few minutes, unless IMC decides to re-new that stuff,

But I do believe that things might change and people can cooperate and be more socialize with each other.

I have my circle of friends that informs me of the boss spawn time and with 10-20 people fighting for drops and not to mention the lag (fps drop), I dont know what will happen next. :skull:

But I like what OP wants, and we have to wait what IMC will do for iToS.
(I see dark clouds coming but with a little bit of sunshine within :sparkles:)

1 Like

Yeah, the participation reward debate XD

Participation means only having to land a hit like in AK, GW2 etc, to receive a reward (#goatsamamustdie lol) whereas in ToS it is contribution based to the top dps and their respective parties. So hopefully we could get both randomized timers and participation based rewards. The combination of the two practically render private hoarding a thing of the past… not to mention it would allow non-dps classes like supports a way to get a reward without having to recruit a high-end dps into the party.

What you said about the fps drop and lag… man, I reallllllly hope to see an option that lets us hide other players in ToS as well. Love that feature in AK. Congested areas such as world bosses or busy towns would benefit from the option to just click and hide everyone else. This would both increase fps immensely as well as make the boss battles more manageable without 500 spells popping on-screen all at once =P

I’m speaking for those who almost completely monopolize the WB hunt in server Laima in ICBT2.

Back then, in order to consistently do WB hunt, they rushed their characters level to 190-200. After they hit that level, they spread their members to several WB spots while observing world chat in case there’s a WB spawn announcement from other party.

When they found out that a WB spawned, they would go there ASAP, deal damage up to 1/3 or 1/2 of its max HP, then inform other people. Why didn’t they keep it for themselves? Because killing a WB takes too much time and there’s a chance that there’s another WB that spawns at the same time. But of course, they usually don’t inform other people if they were fighting against weak, low levelled WB. They inform other people only if they need them. If they think they can handle the WB themselves, they won’t bother to call out for help. Once they’ve killed the boss, they would have the timer. They won’t camp unless the boss respawn time is almost near.

But of course, not all people were like that. Some people that I know (like Kuroi) was always sharing his timer at world chat right after a WB has spawned (#Respect), allowing the others to participate as well. The only problem is, from the current ToS, it doesn’t look like we can freely use world chat to share our timers anymore. That means people like Kuroi won’t be able to openly share their timers anymore. This will limit the amount of players who can participate on WB hunt, at least before more people start to reach high level.

In short, considering how heavy the grind aspect in ToS is, the current WB system will give most profit for those who can hunt them as early as possible and give the least profit for the others who are late to join the party.

Your suggestion about “public timers” isn’t bad. But that doesn’t change the fact that those who can hunt WB (especially high level WB) as early as possible will make the most profit for themselves. People who hit high level early will have a lot of free time to spend on WB hunt. Early high levelled characters will simply clean up lower level WB very quick and get the highest chance to get cubes (why? because they can deal much more damage compared to lower levle players) even when every player knows the global timer. Early high levelled characters will be able to kill high WB at high level maps while the other players who are still below them can’t participate, even when every player knows the global timer.

Unless you are forming a guild or organization that is exclusive for hardcore players who want to share their WB timers by whispering every single player out there, I can’t see any of your suggestion to work except this point

This will allow lower level players who aren’t strong enough to kill WB in high level map with their party to get the rewards. This will also allow lower level players to at least get something even though there is another higher level characters who can deal tons of damage to the WB. For this idea, I agree. As small as a reward can be, it is still a reward. This is the best solution that can be implemented IMO.

1 Like

I’ve always thought that WB should be something like you running around doing your quest doing your thing or with people, and out of the sudden a random world boss appears, in fact this is what I thought it was going to be like in icbt2, silly me haha, Really camping helps no one but the few very little people who do it, why should there be an specific WB in an specifit time that drops certain specifc weapon that you can farm to sell for lots of $$$ ? Where’s the fun in that ? But idk is just my opinion, Regardless, the people that contribute in the fight should be rewarded, if you effectively healed everyone and no one died or died very little, you should be rewarded for that, in my opinion. @STAFF_John

1 Like

Yeah for me the ideal solution would be as @Daenerys suggested; 1-8 hours at random for spawn timers rather than the current which is a set 4 hours after death (aside from the 2hr event themed WB like Dulla), but mixed with participation instead of contribution.

This is because I agree with what I think a world boss should feel like. It should be a “wtf heck yes” kind of moment when you get to fight one, and getting everyone there should be a fun thing like “oh oh, come quick! WB at so-and-so map!” instead of how it is currently: “sweet a WB spawned! Oh, wait, there is already a party chunking it even though it just spawned… oh now there are 5 parties, no cube for me, maybe I can invite someone really quickly but, nah, nevermind, it’s at half health, rip cube” lol Countering the private timers is something I will do- I don’t feel that players hoarding them to themselves is… well, I don’t feel it’s right. It’s just a game but WB are a part of that game and intentionally camping timers so that your drops sell for more or so that you get a drop and nobody else does… I mean, it’s like a starving community but there is a group of people with guns who camp the food truck when it rolls in every day. They have the firepower so they get the food and they’ll sell you their leftovers at a much higher price simply because you can’t get to the truck in time. Man that’s so third-world and we’re better than that lol

So making the timers public may not be the perfect solution but it’s better than having certain aspects of the game off-limits to some players. Ideally though: 1-8 hours random timer, participation reward so that non-dps and characters who aren’t over-leveled can still reap the rewards of what should be a fun and profitable WB encounter.

1 Like

so i dont spam so much, what do you think about something like this? The system to allow this already exist inside instance dungeons all they would have to do is extend it to apply to world bosses, and by form of a patch lower the drop rate on the items?

1 Like