Tree of Savior Forum

With all these restrictions, one would think gold sellers are having a really hard time, right? (Proof inside)

General Discussion
#61

it bothers me that people write things and don’t even understand what they wrote.

you called the measures basically invalid (“not a real argument”) if they didn’t completely eliminate the problem.
in other words; improving the situation is worthless, unless the problem is entirely eliminated.

and then again, when did they ever say they were -satisfied- with the current state?

@dawnintodark you know, RO is still running if you want to try it. just saying. (tho, a lot of past replies have suggested that RO-now has lost some of the charm/flavor/whatever that RO-then had.)

#62

I cannot stress enough that we need to also do something about the people buying the silver, not just the ones selling it. IMC needs to advertise NOT to buy silver, because not only does it make the game unfair and unfun, but also because your credit card information is very likely to be stolen so these companies can continue to propagate.

#63

First of cool thread, but actually selling 9.2million over 5 hours on the biggest server isn’t exactly that much with 100k is 3$, that means 1 million for 30$ and lets round it up to 300$ to 10 million.

That is literally peanuts. It involves several people working to earn 300$ over 5 hours - if you like the term working or not is besides the point, they are doing their work.

If anything I would say it demonstrates that the measures are either effective or ToS players don’t want to buy (who would blame them with how problematic the spammers behave here)

Could you tell me the webpage you got this info from? Would be personally interested to keep an eye on it.

#64

I agree with OP on the point that the current system will not adequately slow RMT now or ever.

2 Likes
#65

At these current rates, the gold seller companies are actually making very little. They currently have to buy accounts ($10 each), pay the advertisers or parent company, deal with silver loss due to bans, pay their employees (they probably make like 10 cents an hour), and the buyers have to deal with the 48 hour delay for silver. During the 48 hour wait, IMC can sift through unusually large silver transactions to catch the sellers.

It’s not actually the silver selling they are making money off of though. It’s the stolen credit cards numbers they take from naive buyers. They do business with you, and then will wait a little while before they drain your bank account or use it to purchase more accounts. Not all companies do this, but it’s still all the more reason NOT to buy illegit silver.

#66

:mushroom: RIP :mushroom:

1 Like
#67

Only if your a retard 99% of these places accept 3rd party payment programs like paypal.

#68

(Someone said: They would have sold 100m instead of 9m?)

This argument is completely false, reason? Let me ask you a simple question, if you were a gold farmer, and you have 100m sitting spread out in your armies of “soon to be banned” botting accounts, what would you do?

Answer: Lower the supply price of silver and make sure you sell every single last silver, some do it daily, some hourly, it really depends on the policy of the workstations.

So how does this affect the rest of the players?

Every game that has a tradable subscription membership will always have a tied economy with RMT, people will buy silver as long as it cost them less to buy a token.

Bottom line, silver price falls, token price and price of everything in game rises.

(Someone said: They are making less, pennies)

There are many others none recorded trades.

Data that was shown in the first post is from a single website, that was used to hook up gold farmers and spammers, they charge a flat 5% fee. Most spammers have their own contact and will try to skip through this website as much as possible, but when the silver demand is too high that their own contacts are not able to fill up the orders, they will look to buy from that website.

You need a bank account from China to use that website.

Most gold farmers are chinese.

Rate of USD:RMB 1:6.4

$30 usd is about $200 in China. Man power and electricity is extremely low. Some workstations even have branches in third world country such as Indonesia, Malaysia etc where labour and electricity is even cheaper.

#69

You do not need to study anything to know that solutions which punish the innocent more than the guilty, are fundamentally bad.
The crowning gem on this argument is IMC’s 1:1 trade statement in which they openly admit that gold sellers have next to unlimited amounts of silver.
This directly translates to the simple fact that they can buy tokens, they can buy anything in the AH.
Following up on this the people 1:1 trade restrictions will hurt the most, are not the sellers, but your average player who has to actually work to just as much buy a token off the AH.

Let it finally dawn on you:

Not proverbially but quite frankly literally screwing over your player base with these restrictions will cause frustration and anger.
There was the dungeon cap, i said fine, its not that big of an issue, farming will go slower.
There was the AH cap, i said fine, its not that big of an issue, i will simply NPC sell my stuff without frustrating over the bs.
There was the 1:1 trade cap which completely and utterly annihilated playing with friends, and i said… for a game which didnt even bother to do as much as add a frikin need/greed loot system, this is now god flying ■■■■■■■ too much.

If you have to ruin the game for me and my friends to inconvenience (because lets be honest here, this is not something that counters gold sellers, it just inconveniences them) then you have gotten something wrong in your thinking process.

Im sorry IMC, im supportive towards you, but when it comes to bs with bs attempts of bs justification, i have low patience. Understand that by now gold sellers are only the second group which get screwed by your caps. THE FIRST ONE IS YOUR DAMN PLAYERS.

4 Likes
#70

There is only one way of stopping gold sellers. That is making it entirely impossible to transfer silver to another account (no trading, no market place, no anything), you’d also have to make it so accounts are locked if someone with another IP address logs into it (to stop people from just going on an account and farming silver for the person, or to stop them farming silver on an account and selling it later).

Outside of this, you can never stop them. You can only hope IMC are on their game and actively banning them enough that they actually feel the impact.

The other option is to set up your own group of people you trust, and barter with them using something like Talt instead of silver. You got to find people you trust though for this to work.

#71

I really want to believe IMC is doing their best to stop gold sellers, I really do. Unfortunately my past experience with other game developers have turned me into another cynical paranoid freak. It is sad really. :disappointed:

Anyways, there are good suggestions on how to combat RMT, thought up by players @ridleyco and @thailehuy… I will link their posts here

#72

You can pretty easily see how they’re transfering silver. Check the market for Hamming Leaf or Leaf Bug Shell, these are averaging about 15000 silver, and you can collect about 10-20 of each per minute. A gold buyer merely needs to put them up for a specific price and have a gold seller buy them to transfer money. Technically the two day limit on retrieving silver is intended to increase the window where they could get caught performing such a transfer, but I don’t see any evidence to believe that they’re actively getting caught or punished. With some moderation the system would make it very difficult to transfer silver but as it stands it’s fairly easy to game.

4 Likes
#73

You mean you don’t pay 15,000 for hamming leaves and leaf bug shells? :scream:

#74

Indeed, and there isn’t any point in this window. argh, rhetorics
Transactions are logged. Goldseller hunter find suspicious transaction in the logs. Hunter reports it as illegal transaction to the GMs. GM ban goldseller and? goldbuyer.
Goldbuyer may have used this gold for buying a memedagger (which means more gold and less daggers in the economy) but, hey, is it such a big problem to warrant a 48h trade window ?

#75

This suggests one of the following:

  1. Simply listing an item will shift the market cap system or…

  2. The current system is not correctly removing fraudulent transaction entries from market cap consideration or…

  3. That these sellers and buyers are not being caught…

#76

You’d be surprised… The game company Ankama had such a huge problem with chargebacks to banks with stolen credit cards that they nearly lost all their payment partners and had to set up ridiculously over the top payment filters to prevent fraud. All these credit cards were stolen from people who either bought gold or charged for a leveling service.

It’s pretty obvious gold sellers have plenty of stolen credit cards to use to make up for revenue loss. Where do you think they get them?

#77

Not through pay pal

My point stands, only the stupid get robbed.

#78

who the fock buys 350k silver for around $10 anyway during early access with less players?

who the f0ck would want to risk paying first then hoping the other party fulfills their end of the deal and buy whatever item you placed on auction house?

just use your own macro and run around map spamming whatever aoe skill you have to farm silver, and even then you should pray that you can actually encounter monsters as monster spawn rate and spawn locations has no pattern, in the end it’s wont be as effective as you hope it to be.

pray IMC will offer TP to silver option (like GW2) for all you lazy idjits!

#79

And the stupid are numerous.

#80

Holy hell have none of you ever used paypal? If they don’t full fill the paypal user simply charges back through pay pal saying purchase unfilled.

Seriously this is the reason why paypal is such a big thing on ebay and amazon etc