Give this man a prize
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At swordmans current state they cant compete with wiz/archer(in terms of dps) unless few cases where could just niche with shinobi. (very hard to pull in pvp for that matter)
Doesnt really matter what you try to say, even with incoming cleave buff, or spear lunge, its still a setup that archer/wiz doesnt need in order to do damage.
Want to compete with DPS while having higher base HP, mobility, self resistance and block habilities. Want to heal as well?
Corsair, Barbarian, Doppel, Cata and Dragoon can all burst enemies fast. And even withing the SW tree you have knock backs/ups, stuns, binds, etc to help out.
No setup? Tell me how people just willingly stand still on Fireball/Pillar/Wall, Hail, Prominence, Frost Cloud, Summon telegraphed attacks, Pole of Agony, Caltrops, Stockades, Broom Trap, Gu Pot, Magic Arrow, Cure, Zaibas, Owl Statue, Monks, Carnivory and others to be damaged.
I am not saying PvP balance is wonderful. We need nerfs on Wugushi poison (and then remove antidote from BTL), Broadhead bleed, Flesh Cannon damange, number of skeletons from Raise Dead, and others.
But in the middle of that some complains are unreasonable.
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Swordsmen are the easiest to kill in PvP. They are literally less threatening than hunter pets.
You seem incredibly butthurt about something. A swordsman embarass you?
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We do, actually, throwing spear and gae bulg. Itâs just that the animation is garbage in PvP.
Highest HP = wizard (thaumaturge)
Mobility = wizard (chrono)
Self resistance, well, I give you that point. Except wizard need no resistance since wizards themselves have all the CC
Block = Stone skin, this goes to everyone.
And guess what, Heal = wizard too, since featherfoot C2
Tell me a single reason why wizard should have DPS on top of those too? With the advantage of range over melee?
No they cannot. Swordman has the worst CC kit in all trees. All the knock back and stun skills have crap animation. All the bind skills also bind the swordman as well (hook, arrest). And being melee (with the same movement speed as ranged chars) also hurt a lot. Thereâs a reason only cata shines in PvP, they have speed to catch
- Sleep/Full draw
- Unleash
- ???
- Profit!!!
All wizards and archers can do that
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theyâre not afk at allâŚin fact. weâre all in shock. the enemy team used sandwich formation and we canât escape while enemy cryos placing frost pillar and walls + sleep and raise.
you know, sword mans sucks because this game is tree of magic
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Uhm okay sure, if the player is RC, sure, he would need to spend 8/4 secs to buff up before casting frost cloud for incredible damage,
And really? Fireball? A wizard does not simply walk all the way to melee range with an opponent to put a fireball, gg.
And as for wizards, unlike swordsman, wizard can go FULL CON in pvp and still do better than swordsman in general.
Are you taking for granted all swordsmen are CC immune or?
Most clases can kite a swordsman, unless its a Cata, or if the swordsman spents alot of points into SPR to resist status ailments such as slow, freeze, petrify, But hey, guess what, if he has high SPR, his hp would be low enough to be 1/2 shot by the muskeeter/cannoneer/whatever.
Pain Barrier alone is not consistent enough to resist all status effects that comes by.
Gesh its as if youre trying to say swordsman is in a good spot lmao.
Yes, every Wizard build has Wiz3, Thauma, Chrono3 and WL, somehow.
Your logic is perfect.
And yet you have no idea how this skill works.
Range, duration, cooldown, heal amount, number of targets. Nothing.
We only know it will heal something on attacks and that FF sacrifices 60% of his own HP for that.
I doubt it will be close enough to replace a Cleric in a party, or even be a skill to be used on PvP. (suicide button more likely)
No they donât, that is Cleric tree. Yet you donât see them crying they have no CC to hold enemies on Owl Statue, Zaibas and whatnot.
Because it is to compensate their own specific traits.
Are you unable to understand a rethorical question or you simply donât read what I am replying to?
When did I say that? What do you understand for âsetupâ?
We can Stop > Fireball, Fireball > melee it away > JP > HK, Fireball > Swap and stuff like that.
Use something to make another thing work.
Now I understand you complaints. You think every skill should be used as a stand alone and blow the screen.
Sadly this is due to the bad damage scaling this game has.
Now, it is not âWizard canâ, it is Warlock, Necro and Sorcerer, combined with Wizard C3, due to abnormal base damage/number of hits and Summons having their own stats.
Every other Wiz class will do extremely low damage w/o INT on TBL.
And as I said, I am all in favor to nerf damage of Summons, and either those base damages or Quick Cast.
Every SW has inherent resistance while dashing and access to Pain Barrier. Then other classes may give more options as well.
In general lines, no they canât. Kite implies in doing damage while moving to keep your distance and this only happens if you are S. Reiter or, in the future, Mergen.
If you stop to cast something, a running SW is on top of you in no time.
Well, not in the way I see people trying to play them.
As I mentioned to you how we need to work out ways to make Fireball work for example, I almost never see a SW trying to knock someone down with Bash or another attack before using their damage skills (and Bash has wider hitbox than many other of his skills, so easier to connect).
Even more funny is watching the SW3 builds against a team with no CC immunity, using Restrain and trying directly to hit their damaging on their targets while running, just to waste it on the air and you target getting away due to the skill delay.
While it is much safer to run and attack during jumps, keeping on your foe shoes until the first stun gets procced to confirm your combo.
Satoru confirmed butthurt scrub who somehow managed to lose to a swordsman while abusing wizard and has to convince himself itâs not just that he sucks (unfortunately it is an forums posts wonât change that)
The very fact heâs here whining about reality is proof that he knows swordsman are crap and losing to one was something to ashamed of- would someone who actually thinks swordsmen are good be here so anus-incinerated at the prospect of people realizing wizards like him who die to swordsmen are poo?
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This thread reminds me of my very first TOS character.
No pelt.(its hard when its your first character)
15 Points in SPR.
Putting lv5 gems on low-end gears.
And linker, necro, and cryo. What did I miss? Oh right, pyro, thatâs the only class in wizard tree that is unpopular right now
My logic is nowhere as perfect as yours where swordman magically have 100% accuracy, 50k HP, block, mobility
Because statues last for 15 damn minutes. Miss one? lol like I care, I can place 5 more already
And guess what? Cleric tree has the best defensive skill, safety zone, and unlimited healing, and the only tree that have status clearance. They are not supposed to have great CC and damage, they are the defensive tree, they can function from behind the fighting line
Show me 1 swordman build that can function without putting your neck under enemy lines
Besides the base HP, show me swordman trait that other trees donât have (and donât have better lol)
Are you seriously not understanding the simple combination of CC first then AoE later?
Canât do anything while dashing, a damage touch cancel dash, and dash does not avoid damage. In fact, besides slithering in Rodelero class, swordman has nothing to avoid damage.
And even with dash + pain barrier combined, thatâs only 50% resistance max. Itâs a gamble to dash in the enemy line, not an insurance.
How about try to play a swordman without cata in PvP? Good luck catching anything
You know why? Because bash has a slow animation, must be cast melee range. MELEE. Gosh if you let a swordman come next to you, you must be afk
Yeah yeah, nice theory, guess who can land the first stun easier, the one who can throw stun at range or the one has 60% chance to stun at melee
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The fact that 2 or 3 specific Wizard classes (and Archers) are not well adequatec to TBL, and very much deserve nerfs in damage as I already said I am in favor, does not mean the whole SW tree sucks.
The game is still based on the âTrinityâ system at its core, and also the rock-paper-scissors cycle.
If you canât understand that much, feel free to continue to throw all your angst-edgy-teenager insults at me like it actually does anything besides showing your immaturity.
Your reading comprehension seems to be vary low. You said Thauma HP is the highest (which is not true) as trying to say âWizards have the highest HP!â when not every Wizard has Thauma in their builds.
But every SW has their higher natural HP growth.
Same applies to not every Wiz being Chrono, and SW having the dash skill since level 1.
You donât need DEX agains Wiz and Cleric (except the 1% Monks), which are 80% of the population from 5x5, that is a fact.
I never said anything about 50k HP, so stop getting numbers out of your head. SW having roughly 70 âfree points of CONâ at level 200, tho. is another fact.
Block I assume was not a good point since it is class reliant.
And movement is a inherent ability. Try double tapping a directional key.
[quote=âthailehuy, post:32, topic:317259â]
And guess what? Cleric tree has the best defensive skill, safety zone, and unlimited healing,âŚ
[/quote]Sigh.
Yeah, yeah. SW has nothing. Plz make them like Ragnarok Paladins with best HP, block, mobility, heal and killing with 2 attacks. Only this way ppl will be happy here.
My SW is still level 110-ish, but I am not wasting 200+ hours leveling it before finishing my main Wiz (which is not even a meta build), just to prove you wrong.
But if you offer me a leveled SW, I will gadly accept.
yeah just â â â â â â â rush into icewall shall we ? lmao
doesnt even sucks anything at all, like â â â â â just walk away rofl
who the â â â â use this shiet? cmon fam
20% CHANCE TO FREEEEEZE 5 YEARS TO CAST LMOAAAAAXDDDD
melee range, and â â â â ass animation. implying you could hit anyone with this on 5fps 15v15 gvg get real nigguh
and also â â â â â â â crying about 2sec freeze or sleep when there is PD all over the place. cmon friend lose weight and stop being retarded and maybe there is someone want to befriend with u. and ARENA ARE IRRELEVANT because its random and 2v2 are never be balanced in any MMO at all
everyone know that cryo / kino tree are already butchered beyond help and if you still crying over this 2 class prob just ask chink hakyu to remove cryo and kino from wizard tree maybe that will solve it rofl
Not at all, like you said, swordman has a bonus of around 70-100 CON at current content. However, those points are most likely already go into DEX so swordman can hit archers and fencers, so higher HP = nope
Chronos can buff the whole team for speed, can swordman make the whole team dash? And did you conveniently ignore the fact that any instance of damage cancel dash and you cannot do anything while dashing? Dash is not teleport (which is, guess what, another of wizard benefits)
3/100 top PvP leader board is swordman. Does that speak anything to you, at all?
Yeah why not make swordman OP? Wizard is already OP for a long period of time, whatâs wrong with making swordman OP now?
And to add one more point I forgot earlier, block doesnât do crap against magic, so even if swordman has 2k block I still wonât be happy.
So you donât have a swordie, and yet somehow you know how to play a swordie? Sorry I never realize you are a genius that way.
You can cast icewall on top of enemy, no way to dodge that. And icewall range is further than the screen
Use ice tree to protect your team, thatâs a defensive skill
Why not? You drop it and it stays there, you lose nothing
Add some level to it, and you can cast it in 0.5 seconds like energy bolt
Get a better â â â â â â â machine. with 5 FPS donât play PvP[quote=âkanzeoch, post:34, topic:317259â]
and also â â â â â â â crying about 2sec freeze or sleep
[/quote]
They last 5 â â â â â â â seconds, not 2
Because god will put a PD in your team every single time a cryo is on opponent team, thereâs no random at all, right?
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gvg is just broken wizards pushing aoes and junk on enemy team from max range or instant killing in melee with theurge.
If youâre experiencing gvg and thereâs more than just wizards and clerics that explains why youâre losing.
cool opinion shitter- canât get carried by op wizards as easily in arena?
Again, I wasnât joking about hunter pets being better in pvp than swordsmen.
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I will just quote again and see what will happen rofl
Who the heck is aki?
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Itâs funny how you guys are discussing on how swordsman is sht, while Iâm hoping that I have a swordsman that actually know how to play in my team during TBL, and Iâm a wizard.
Swordsman (barbarian or catagoon) is great because they can actually knockback the enemy, and thatâs the only few debuff that canât be blocked by bloodletting or prophecy. This makes them a natural counter to the meta in high ranking TBL where every team has a PD/oracle.
The only sad thing is that they usually canât enter the high ranking TBL because of how there is no proper support to help them against wizards in lower ranking.
tl;dr: Swordie is great to counter bloodletting/prophecy when both team have them.
Not consistent, youre just throwing a dice hoping you win. you need to invest in SPR.
Dont need to quote everything you said as its already been filled in by someone else.
Inb4 youre building Pyro3Linker3 and wonder why swordsman can get you in pvp.
Dont forget that the subject that is on between nus atm is PVP, obviously not ALL builds are fit for pvp, but try put any build swordsman can pull, against a pvp oriented wiz, or archer, or even cleric, swordsman will have to put the most effort, which is probably a sw3cata3goon to have a chance of winning.
Ill just end my post with, have a look at top PVP rankings in ktos, start looking from a couple of months back till now, youre obviously just sitting and imagining what swordsman can do on paper. You have likely not put anything into prapctice, unless youre a bad wiz/got a build not fit for pvp and losing to a swordsman.
The rank list states some swordsman every now and then, but comparing to other classes, gg.
You are underestimating how your team will make use of the resistance when the enemy CCâer is aiming at the swordsman.
If the CC hit, we will CC him too, and the match became 4v4. If the status is resisted, now the game is 5v4.
DPS Swordsman is actually extremely dangerous when they get into close range. Cata 3âs rush donât need much explanation. Barb 3 has enough stun and burst that can instantly kill off a full CON mage with shield.
Of course you need some investment to achieve that DPS, but once you pass the breaking point, there is nothing a full CON mage can do to counter you.
Though, most players in this game donât even invest much in non cata 3 swordsman anyway, so it will take some times before they find this out.